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Eve Online: A refreshing Game...
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Dal-Amara Furion
#61 - 2013-12-07 12:38:12 UTC
To better understand my beliefs here, it is not that I oppose training times. It is that I oppose rather undesirably lengthy training times. Idle hands are the devils tools, I can only imagine how many potential long term players have been lost to this idle time.

I do appreciate everyone who participated in this forum string, guiding me with veteran insights and wonderful words of wisdom.

Thank you

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
Dal-Amara Furion
#62 - 2013-12-08 11:27:49 UTC
What is the consensus on doing multiple skills at one time in separate categories. I.e. one on a miner, another on an interceptor, another battleship etc. Keeping the integrity of time for each genre, but allowing some real forward momentum.

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#63 - 2013-12-08 12:08:43 UTC
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
Idle hands are the devils tools, I can only imagine how many potential long term players have been lost to this idle time.


If you find that you have idle time, you aren't doing it right

I find I never have enough time to do all the things I want

The skill queue to me is a Brucey Bonus that goes DING to tell me I can now do somethign new

Look at it as levelling not as training and the world is your eggshell

But back to the point, if you find yourself spinning ships waiting for skills, you are not making the most of what you have already

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
#64 - 2013-12-08 12:28:09 UTC
Hi, welcome to Eve!


I have had many a friend and family member try Eve and leave, and alot of the reasons was that the "game" became just waiting for skills to complete, then when they had access to said ship/weapon the goal was met and they became bored and un-subbed; thinking the game was just a never ending cycle of training for the next ship.

eve is a game where you need to constanly create your own ideas, mini-games, projects etc and attempt to finish them. Its really something unique, and the open-endness of it can go from gaming nirvana to boredom very easily.


but ultimately, its about empire building (no matter the scope) and money making,


cheers and have fun!

ps.


don't fly anything you can't afford to lose
don't trust anyone you can't punch IRL





Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#65 - 2013-12-08 12:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
I can only imagine how many potential long term players have been lost to this idle time.

None that really understood this stupid game we all play. There's no idle time. From day one you can always be doing something with what you have, there's precisely no reason to wait for anything. This used to be the case for some specialities, particularly logistics, but even this isn't true now with how awesome T1 logi are both in frig and cruiser size.
I have like 70mil SP and I still fly T1 logi, costing about 5mil, in frigate fleets from time to time.
In fact, I can't think of a single thing I have trained in the last 18months that has let me do anything new, it's all diminishing returns after a while, which is the nature of the non-linear skill curve from 1-5

e: Little story - when I joined RvB on an alt, I contracted a few dozen ships over from my main. I couldn't use all the modules on the ship, but in a fit of laziness I decided I would grow into the fits. There was literally one fight where I pulled range on a guy, so I would regain the cap to online a module my skill had just finished training for.
SP doesn't prevent fun.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#66 - 2013-12-08 13:22:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
This is my 1st post:
What I find refreshing here and I've seen references in the forums here is the fact someone new simply just can't pick up the game and in 1 day start owning everyone in the game.


As few weeks old player I got tasked at tackling battleships. A guy in a 250k cost Rifter would be instrumental at killing a 1000 times more expensive ship. 1000 times.


Dal-Amara Furion wrote:

I've played the crap out of FPS's and MMO's and there is nothing more detesting than having a beginner, level one, or other, start the game and kick the crap out of your seasoned character, no matter your level.


I have been that level one, and I enjoyed harvesting baddies tears. "Seasoned character" means little, there's plenty of ebay-grade seasoned characters that any average new player should be able to defeat.


Dal-Amara Furion wrote:

It is refreshing... here... the hierarchy of ships and weapons and that hierarchy is maintained. There is no shotgun sniper rifle, or a pistol that hits harder than a 50 caliber sniper rifle... this is great!!!


There's no vertical hierarchy, just good tools to most appropriately counter other tools. Bigger gun does not necessarily win, best picked gun does.



Dal-Amara Furion wrote:

The only complaint I do have are the training times, there is no reason to bore a new player to death. I'm sure this concept has ran many of players off. So I would ask for a reconsideration in this area and making the sensible move to more acceptable training times. ( In case any Dev's read this)

Thanks again!


Pick the proper skills, join something awesome like RvB and you'll kick ass in no time!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Amber Kurvora
#67 - 2013-12-08 13:27:00 UTC
Just remember people will gank you, but most of the time it's not going to be personal. Hell. I've had conversations with people who have destroyed my ship, and in turn we forwarded a fit for someone who was flying a terra-bad Drake. I'd actually say the forums are harsher when it comes to people tearing you a knew one, but only when you've done something deemed 'derpy' or plain stupid.

Enjoy the game and make friends!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#68 - 2013-12-08 13:27:44 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


join something awesome like RvB and you'll kick ass in no time!


And remember; if they walk into your bullets while you randomly fire your guns in all directions, its THEIR bad luck!

And

Red FTW

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Dal-Amara Furion
#69 - 2013-12-09 11:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dal-Amara Furion
Quote:

Eve is a game where you need to constantly create your own ideas, mini-games, projects etc. and attempt to finish them. Its really something unique, and the open-endless of it can go from gaming nirvana to boredom very easily.


This is probably the best well said, most applicable, game based persona application, I believe that has been said thus far. I'm thinking I'm understanding the inner nuance of the game now.

Still, for beginners, the training hurdle should be lifted to an acceptable time frame. In particular, training times that really don't amount to much other than getting a player hooked and wanting to wade in hip deep in whatever pursuit they deem necessary. There is nothing wrong with having a handful of 8 day level 5's for lower class tech 1 training.

Citing the right of passage as a reason to tuff it out or stay the course, isn't comforting and it conducts players in a direction to find other means of entertainment.

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#70 - 2013-12-09 19:14:39 UTC
Dal-Amara Furion wrote:
Still, for beginners, the training hurdle should be lifted to an acceptable time frame. In particular, training times that really don't amount to much other than getting a player hooked and wanting to wade in hip deep in whatever pursuit they deem necessary. There is nothing wrong with having a handful of 8 day level 5's for lower class tech 1 training

You keep saying this, yet you haven't suggested what you want to do, or when you want to do it. What do you want to do, that you can't do now, how long do you think it will take you, and how long would you actually accept?

Long training times are only an issue when you're very green, look up a Marauder / cap ship in the market, and think "man, that's too long". In reality the training time is nearly always shorter than the amount of time it takes to learn the game to a level where using and losing them is a trivial process.

If anything it's currently too short a time to get the basic skills for a cap ship (see posts about people losing their dreadnaughts because it won't fit through a gate).

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,