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Why do you bother?

Author
Astera Zandraki
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-07 13:45:23 UTC
Empyreans.

I come to you as a very different person than the one you may have met just about a year ago. I was naive, wondering at the vastness of a cluster that was suddenly mine to explore. Well, turns out things are much simpler than I'd imagined, people, baseline human beings cannot be trusted, they will hate you, they will fear you and if possible they will kill you, all because of the gift random chance gave you, Empyreans. We all know this to be true on some level. So, I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?

Just a short rant I guess, but I'm interested to
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-12-07 13:57:15 UTC
There's an old Matari saying that probably sums it up for me:

Those that you now hate so fervently; you must have loved so much.

I still love my people, even if they loathe me, and just because you know that a goal is futile it does not deny the worth of the struggle.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Cuci Cairi
#3 - 2013-12-07 14:05:31 UTC
I am not loyal to any of the Four, but I still spend time with baseliners. Some of them can definitely party.
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-12-07 14:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arista Shahni
In Academy I had a teacher who said, "I love the stars. Can't you hear them singing?"

They were not wrong.

.. I feel as if I'm about to repeat myself verbatim here, but..

We learn to accept certainties. This comes with sacrifice. There's glory and agony here too, if you could really consider it a different level at all.

Yes, we learn that everything we once had, we will leave behind. That we are entering the land of madmen, with the choice to become mad ourselves or suffer repeatedly at their hands. And hundreds and thousands die in our wake and we are free of the responsbility of their souls because they are heretics, because they are impure, because somewhere, somewhen... they signed a contract, and ISK changed hands?

We sign contracts too, you know. And not only the type on paper or datapad or genetic signatures. There are contracts with the mind and soul, that reach home and to the distant stars, that place us in eternal exile from everyone and everything we used to know... even the rarest of Capsuleer who could keep their old ties will never avoid seeing this reflected in the eyes of those they knew before.

Deep space can change the mind. It can teach us that we are far smaller than we wish to acknowledge. But to see the stars... wasn't that always the ultimate dream? They can teach other lessons as well.... darker lessons. So many have forsaken their humility for power, mistake their digital memories as humanity.. forget what they truly are.

I am a sacrifice to my Empire and my Empress, and not simply by word or vow, but with all that I ever was, or ever will be. No wonder they seek lies for solace. No wonder they mistake power for comfort. No wonder they mistake this for Life.

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."

Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#5 - 2013-12-07 14:29:54 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Empyreans.

I come to you as a very different person than the one you may have met just about a year ago. I was naive, wondering at the vastness of a cluster that was suddenly mine to explore. Well, turns out things are much simpler than I'd imagined, people, baseline human beings cannot be trusted, they will hate you, they will fear you and if possible they will kill you, all because of the gift random chance gave you, Empyreans. We all know this to be true on some level. So, I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?

Just a short rant I guess, but I'm interested to


Its been a while since I've posted much on this forum, but I saw your name so I thought I should say something. First, you are a good person Ms. Zandraki, at least in my estimation. It seems that you've experience something that has hurt your faith in at least one segment of humanity.

You helped me to learn to discern the fine line between idealism and naiveté. Along that same line is cynicism. Two need to be avoided and one needs to be embraced. I have become more and more of a humanist over time, partly due to your influence, Ms. Zandraki. Loyalty to the Empires means less to me and loyalty to humanity means more. Not all baseliners are out to get you. There is a generalism that has helped me understand how this practically works. Those who have the power to pat you on the back are the ones who will stab you in the back. But, there are millions and millions who will never be able to repay you for the good you do for them. Those are the baseliners that make it worth the bother. Find a way to serve them and don't be afraid to walk the line between idealism and naiveté. Better to risk being a little naïve than to become cynical.

Please, keep being a good person.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Jurou Yuan
Wolfraam 74
#6 - 2013-12-07 14:32:23 UTC
I never particularly liked capsuleers or baseliners due to the same reasons. That is why I am where I am now.
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#7 - 2013-12-07 14:37:10 UTC
People fear and, eventually, hate what they do not understand.

My people understand what I and other capsuleers are. My crew do not fear nor hate me.

The workers, scientists, engineers and colonists in my employ may fear me to a point, but any hate they feel fades with time. They labor in the manufacturing and research facilities to line my pockets, but they know that they labor in safety and security. That accidents are rare because the machines are well maintained and kept within code. That should something befall them, they have access to free healthcare, and should they die under my employ, that their families are well take care of. They fear what I am, but they do not fear me as a person. To them, I am the exception to the rule.

But that doesn't extend only to those under my employ. The baselines I work with and around on a daily basis know me as a person first, an immortal second. A lot of my old Navy shipmates and coworkers thought that I'd go through some type of radical change in personality when I was uploaded into my first clone. In short order, they learned that I was still the same person as before. A simple lesson you may believe, but within it lies a profound truth to many baselines: that Capsuleers are still human, and not unreachable demigods.

During my time in the State Protectorate, I've seen this realization spread, slowly but surely. I "bother" not only because it's my duty to the State, but also because it helps bridge the gap between baseliners and Capsuleers.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#8 - 2013-12-07 17:10:14 UTC
Quote:
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Assimia is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#9 - 2013-12-07 17:45:10 UTC
​I suppose on a fundamental level I don't buy the whole "demigod" bit.

We are due to a genetic proclivity able to benefit from technology, that when used correctly allows us to "move" from one body to the next.

Now that "move" and what it entails is worthy of more notice that I will give it here.

So why do I still "cling" to the Federation?

Its a simple and perhaps naive answer, I sincerely believe The Federation for all its flaws is latest and best hope for humanity.

If the empires do nothing else, they do provide the "people" some protection from the capricious beings "we" as capsuleers have become.​
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#10 - 2013-12-07 23:42:14 UTC
If we all said "That's the next man's problem" who then will it fall to? That is the core of the equation that defines much of why I remain loyal to my roots.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#11 - 2013-12-08 00:17:30 UTC
They saved me.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2013-12-08 04:46:41 UTC
I actually spend most of my time with baseliners; they're the majority of my parish. I suppose I am something of an anomaly, as it's been somewhat correctly said that I should have not been a capsuleer. My work is heavily based on philosophy and teaching, things that do not require a capsule. At the same time, I'm not particularly fond of more common capsuleer pastimes.

With that said, a bad relationship with baseliners is not endemic to our condition. Instead, I see it as a reaction to our culture. Most capsuleers are too violent for civilized society, too cynical to really believe in a cause, and too distant to care about human life. We make ourselves that way, and the rest of humanity reacts accordingly.

I think that may have something to do with how we see ourselves. We're simply enthusiasts with a common piece of technology, no more. We're all still human, much as we try to say otherwise. As impressively immortal as we supposedly are, we seem just as vulnerable to all human failings and seem to lack just as many strengths.

You'll find baseliners take you more seriously, and trust you more implicitly, when they know you are simply one of them with a fancy ship accessory.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#13 - 2013-12-08 04:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
While it's true that most people likely hold Capsuleers in some degree of contempt (That is, unless they're ignorant of the specifics, which is probably the case for more individuals then one might think) I would personally say that the notion that this warrants rejection of anyone outside of the "class" is a bit of an overreaction. Not because it's incorrectly founded, but rather because the conclusion is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I mean... Let's be upfront, for a moment.

In truth, the majority of individuals have facts about themselves that, if they openly revealed, would probably earn them the disgust of many people they encounter. Granted, most of these won't be anywhere near as grand as being a Capsuleer, but the fact remains that our ability to tolerate eachother is based on a certain degree of deception, not to mention self-deception. Be it perversion, masked feelings or sentiments, or even past misdeeds, we all have aspects of ourselves that would serve to decisively alienate ourselves from our peers.

So, of course, we conceal said aspects when we're not directly engaging in them. I'd dare say everyone does this to some extent or another. It's only common sense.

Yet, people seem to regard being a pod pilot differently - Something core to ones identity, to be presented very freely and publically, leading to feelings like this when it comes to the obvious result.

This puzzles me, to be frank. The average person I encounter has no need to know about the fact that I am a Capsuleer, just as they have no need to know how much ISK I have saved, or my age, or where I went to school. It's none of their business. It isn't something that defines me, or atleast, not any more then I am willing to let it. I'm more then content to seperate my life as a Capsuleer completely from my life as a normal person, and more recently, my persona, as well.

This is cognitive dissonance to a degree, of course. But cognitive dissonance is an extremely vital part of the human condition. It's what enables us to have functioning socities at all; To regard soldiers differently then murderers, to trade peacefully with groups with practices we consider abominable, even to tell white lies to our friends so we do not offend them, and so on.

If, even knowing all that, you still ask, "Why bother", well... Fundementally, society exists to bring comfort and security to individuals. It is the context within which lies everything that made us who we are. Our families, friends, homes...

Parting with it completely seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Erys Charantes
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-12-08 07:29:20 UTC
I can't say I'm loyal to any particular nation anymore... The Caldari State, perhaps, by the bond I have with my wife, but my loyalty is to those I care for first. Conversely, I'm often in the presence of baseliners both in my personal life and in the small interests I run (nothing you'll hear of, save from me directly, and I like it that way), and I think of their interests before those of the vast majority of capsuleers in New Eden. Why? Because for the price of a single reload of mid size antimatter rounds, I can set up a dozen families in need with work, food, and direction. Because for the price of a cruiser, I can bury a deserving baseline executive under the weight of his own hubris in a day. For the price of a battleship, I can build a small army, and send it to wipe out a slaving ring while I burn their ships myself.

Call me an idealist, but after the initial wonder wore off, that's what I was left with; a choice to act like a raving, money obsessed animal, or do what I consider meaningful as an individual. Were it not for that, I'd have found the immortal experience to be underwhelming enough by now that I'd likely have retired after getting my degree... It's also the reason I've not bothered to rush off into someone else's interests. I'd rather be seen as an academic in a "newbie" corporation, than be off feeding someone else's wallet for no reason.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2013-12-08 07:56:50 UTC
People do tend to fear what they do not understand.

We can either give up on them for having an entirely normal reaction to a frightening situation...

... or we can dispell the fear, bring comprehension to those without our gift, and bring them a greater understanding of our kind.

Only one of these options will actually solve the situation. The other is merely ignoring it.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#16 - 2013-12-08 08:29:06 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
You should probably try living with normal baseliners for a bit.

Looking at the big picture of the universe is something dark and foreboding, too big to grasp, even for a capsuleer, in fact especially so, because the capsuleer suddenly finds themselves with abilities they cannot fully comprehend in a universe still beyond their understanding.

Capsuleers often suffer disconnect, they live through their ship, they see the planets below and their inhabitants as numbers, sums, formulae. Difficult to care about formulae, therefore difficult to care about those people, easy to de-personalize and generalize the universe that way.

Looking at a planet of numbers, why care, sudden loss would be just a momentary blip in numbers, easily workable, even superfluous. A planet home to friends and family though, there is no reason that can make you not care.

Try it. You may learn something.

**Vherokior **

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2013-12-08 08:59:35 UTC
Why do I pledge loyalty to the ones that understand us best ?
Karynn Denton
Lekhantsi Salvage Depot
#18 - 2013-12-09 13:02:09 UTC
My loyalty is to my clan's Caravan.

The twenty-thousand men, women and children that make up our humble population are everything to me.
It's my privilege to serve them as an Outrider, to protect them, to bring them spoils of victory.

The look of awe and wonder in the children's eyes as they follow me around the decks, begging for a story about a dogfight... the approving nod from our Khargai... the grins of our merchants when I return from a smuggling-run... these simple things I treasure and no Empire will ever provide them, or take them away.

Karynn Denton

Caravan Master

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-12-09 16:12:13 UTC
Quote:
baseline human beings cannot be trusted, they will hate you, they will fear you and if possible they will kill you, all because of the gift random chance gave you, Empyreans. We all know this to be true on some level. So, I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?


The difference between a baseliner and a capsuleer is a handful of metal sockets in the spine. The difference between either of those and a DUST trooper is about a half-kilogram of sophisticated cybernetics in the brain.

We're all humans in the end. And the line dividing an empyrean from a baseliner is just as arbitrary and porous as any other line that has divided humanity into its component tribes, probably for as long as we have existed. You can slice it down as fine as you like.

I come from a culture from this world as opposed to that world. My ancestors lived in Region A as opposed to Region B. I was born in space as opposed to planetside. My parents were employed by Ishukone, as opposed to, say, Hyasyoda. I went down the security career track as opposed to industrial. I went Watch groundside as opposed to Watch Fleet. I was part of a SWAT unit as opposed to a police, facility security or VIP escort unit. I was part of a "Tanto" unit as opposed to a "Yumi" squadron. I was an officer as opposed to a non-com. And so on.

Me against my family, my family and I against the division, our division against the corporation, our corporation against the State, the State against the rest of humanity, all of humanity against life, and life against an indifferent universe.

Really, your "tribe" is wherever you feel like you belong. And I feel like I belong Caldari. I don't know how to be anything else.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-12-09 16:33:47 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Empyreans.

I come to you as a very different person than the one you may have met just about a year ago. I was naive, wondering at the vastness of a cluster that was suddenly mine to explore. Well, turns out things are much simpler than I'd imagined, people, baseline human beings cannot be trusted, they will hate you, they will fear you and if possible they will kill you, all because of the gift random chance gave you, Empyreans. We all know this to be true on some level. So, I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?

Just a short rant I guess, but I'm interested to

Pilot,

I ask that you would place more value on humans and come to love them.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

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