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Are the days of Local really numbered?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#161 - 2013-12-07 22:21:53 UTC
Also make the api lie

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#162 - 2013-12-07 22:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Also make the api lie

API does not lie. It tells you what should be in the silo, not what is in the silo. But please, spin on. Blink
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#163 - 2013-12-07 23:52:01 UTC
flakeys wrote:


So how does the bounty payout keep you from grouping?Enlighten me that please.



isk/time unit = time spent shooting stuff - (time spent locking a new wave when you can't overlap the trigger + time spent warping).

You get a benefit on time spent shooting stuff that can be slightly better than straightline (due to tanks not cycling on battleships), but you gain nothing against 1 player locking or warping, and you have to do it twice as often.

ie I don't think the guy you are replying to necessarily understands why its not worth it to group for anoms, but doesn't make it not so.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#164 - 2013-12-08 00:03:57 UTC
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Albeon Draken wrote:
They could just have the number of people in local, but no names unless the person talks. That way, you can see if someone comes in or leaves, but you have no idea who they are and whether or not they're friendly. That way you don't completely lose local as an intel tool, but people out ratting or mining will have to either dock up every time someone pops in, or take the risk and stay out where they can be blown up.

Actually, this isn't a bad idea.


That means you have to go do FOF identification by getting onto their grid. That means alliance intel as a thing is basically dead, we'd have to have a dedicated character in nearly every system to have intel.

I'd literally have to rearrange my screen so that my screen was windowed so I could see the grid fast enough on the other account to actually pick up the hull and name, and that is exactly what I do not want to have to do. Whenever I show other people eve, the moment I appear to need 2 accounts, is the moment their eyes glaze over and they dismiss it as pay to win.

IMO the 2 killers for me is d-span carpal syndrome for negative results, and not being able to identify from the grid I am on right now.

it also makes it difficult to undock, because you have no method of knowing whats on the undock, other than already having eyes cloaked out there. Not even the foggiest guess. again welcome to 2 account city.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#165 - 2013-12-08 00:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
CCP have been saying 'we'd like to do something about local' for years now, I'm not sure why this is news to anyone.

You can file it alongside all the other things they've said they'd like to do one day but will likely never get around to such as planetary flight, formation bonuses, ring mining, and subsystem targeting.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-12-08 00:29:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Tauranon wrote:
it also makes it difficult to undock, because you have no method of knowing whats on the undock, other than already having eyes cloaked out there. Not even the foggiest guess. again welcome to 2 account city.

I know you are going for the Appeal to Fear fallacy thing, but players can undock, look to see what is on grid and then redock if they don't like it. All magically done with one account.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#167 - 2013-12-08 00:43:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
let's hope dscan gets replaced, too, eh


DSCAN is even worse than local.

*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click*,*click*, *click* OH HEY I SAW SOMETHING FINALLY

is not good gameplay.


^ This. I'd rather not get carpletunnel syndrome. Not to mention it benefits bots far more than players. (Bots don't have fingers that can get tired.)

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Falin Whalen wrote:
Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that.


D-Scan and scouting. Like how, y'know, warfare actually is.

Except that d-scan is a completely **** mechanic.


I hate to agree with a goon, but I agree with the above statement.

HNNGGG oh that physically hurt... he's right though, unfortunately.


I'm curious to see what CCP does with local and its hypothetical/potential intel replacement...

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#168 - 2013-12-08 00:59:57 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
CCP have been saying 'we'd like to do something about local' for years now, I'm not sure why this is news to anyone.

You can file it alongside all the other things they've said they'd like to do one day but will likely never get around to such as planetary flight, formation bonuses, ring mining, and subsystem targeting.

poses?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#169 - 2013-12-08 01:04:35 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
it also makes it difficult to undock, because you have no method of knowing whats on the undock, other than already having eyes cloaked out there. Not even the foggiest guess. again welcome to 2 account city.

I know you are going for the Appeal to Fear fallacy thing, but players can undock, look to see what is on grid and then redock if they don't like it. All magically done with one account.


My closest outpost is a caldari outpost and (similar to what occurs with insta warping), stopping tends to happen a tick later for me than it does to people who are closer to the server network wise, so more of my ships don't seem to stop in the ring.

Whilst where I am is being camped at a distance at the moment and not on station, I'd rather just have the heads up that there were people in system before I undocked, so that I don't have to undock twice just to undock every day.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#170 - 2013-12-08 01:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
I play combat flight sims.

Some guy sets up a war with 'full real' settings and we all log in.

This is what happens. You are given a general outline such as there are a bunch of IL2s doing a rocket run on a certain airfield. So you all take off and open your handy dandy map. The map that is an actual map, by the way. No red or blue icons of little planes flying around. No icons showing where you are and where you need to go. Just a map to compare with the landscape you see outside the cockpit.

While your squadron is forming up you send out a few fast planes to scout. If they are good, then they find and call out some little black dots in the distance. Again, no blue or red boxes around them. Are they friendlies coming to help or are they the enemy you are looking for? Only one way to find out and that's to go have a closer look. ( this is why scouts tend to have such short lives)

He gets close and calls out friend or foe as well as how many and what type of planes they are as well as any support fighters that might be overhead.

He tells you where he thinks he is on the map and you head over to do battle. If your squad leader can read a map, you end up in a nice furball. And you'd better be a good shot because you have no targeting assist or rotating turrets. Still no icons. You often get on a plane's six and realize after emptying a magazine at them that they were one of your mates. Oops!

TLDR: No local + no icons = a whole lot of fun.

I know the above scenario will never happen in this game, but let me have my Christmas fantasy.

Mr Epeen Cool
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#171 - 2013-12-08 01:23:34 UTC
What if you had local only cover the current grid you are on. Big smile
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#172 - 2013-12-08 01:26:43 UTC
Athena Maldoran wrote:
What if you had local only cover the current grid you are on. Big smile

Pants-on-head ********.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#173 - 2013-12-08 01:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Tauranon wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
it also makes it difficult to undock, because you have no method of knowing whats on the undock, other than already having eyes cloaked out there. Not even the foggiest guess. again welcome to 2 account city.

I know you are going for the Appeal to Fear fallacy thing, but players can undock, look to see what is on grid and then redock if they don't like it. All magically done with one account.


My closest outpost is a caldari outpost and (similar to what occurs with insta warping), stopping tends to happen a tick later for me than it does to people who are closer to the server network wise, so more of my ships don't seem to stop in the ring.

Whilst where I am is being camped at a distance at the moment and not on station, I'd rather just have the heads up that there were people in system before I undocked, so that I don't have to undock twice just to undock every day.

That's just because you're in a goon renter alliance.

You should rent from progodlegend, i hear he has a lot of space open now for renting. there's even a free fire to keep you warm in the coldness of nullsec

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2013-12-08 05:29:45 UTC
Such a powerful tool should require skills and a module. I like the idea of a rig scanner, it tells you if someone is in system. If you have standings set you can see those (fof ID), the closer they are to you the more info the rig can pull. If a ship activates a warp to your grid it auto-shows highlighted on descan with more accurate info the closer it gets.

Same info d-scan and local but graduating info.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2013-12-08 06:03:26 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
it also makes it difficult to undock, because you have no method of knowing whats on the undock, other than already having eyes cloaked out there. Not even the foggiest guess. again welcome to 2 account city.

I know you are going for the Appeal to Fear fallacy thing, but players can undock, look to see what is on grid and then redock if they don't like it. All magically done with one account.


My closest outpost is a caldari outpost and (similar to what occurs with insta warping), stopping tends to happen a tick later for me than it does to people who are closer to the server network wise, so more of my ships don't seem to stop in the ring.

Whilst where I am is being camped at a distance at the moment and not on station, I'd rather just have the heads up that there were people in system before I undocked, so that I don't have to undock twice just to undock every day.

That's just because you're in a goon renter alliance.

You should rent from progodlegend, i hear he has a lot of space open now for renting. there's even a free fire to keep you warm in the coldness of nullsec



Oh there have been fires alright Twisted

The morning siege fleets are my new thing to do with coffee.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#176 - 2013-12-08 11:03:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
And there's universal consensus that your vision is the correct one, is there?

Within my own head, definitely. Anyone who does not say so about themselves is lying through their teeth Big smile

The point however, was to illustrate that CCP is squandering their resources like it is nobody's business. They are sitting on top of one the greatest/biggest brain-trusts in the gaming industry (the player base), one that in five minutes can come up with more ideas and concepts than their entire staff can in a year.
Sure, some are ridiculous and utterly impossible without SkyNet to do the coding, but the only way for a box to grow is to think outside of it and expanding the box to incorporate the 'new' .. thinking constrained by the box just clutters the thing up until everything inside suffocates.
Diomedes Calypso wrote:
...I think more information and more FALSE information would be a good solution... false positives with random names of some sort (not entirely random, not clearly npc.. but .. well figuring out the BEST fals positive would be an intricate discussion in itself)

That way.. the decision making is based on your assessment of a bluff.. not clicking

More information and the potential for false information, if the data one gets from something is inherently flawed and one does not throw it on the scrapheap then one is either insane or stupid.
Let the information be absolute and accurate when device X is deployed, but let said device be vulnerable to tampering (ie. hacking) so that the data it provides becomes erroneous until it is rectified (ie. counter-hacked or redeployed).

Example:
The listening post I mentioned earlier could when hacked to scanned show ships as being larger, smaller or more numerous than they really are or not showing them at all or somewhere in between .. think multiple choice list when hacked giving the option to 'bad guy'.
With multiple listening posts needed to cover a system you'd be getting conflicting results leading to same result that you seek with the owner not being able to trust anything/anyone.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#177 - 2013-12-08 13:47:37 UTC
I still don't know why CCP would waste time doing this anyway. CCP should be trying to create small gang content, and being able to hunt individual ratters more easily isn't small gang content. All that will happen is conservatism amongst ratters (ie the ratter population will be elastic based on likelihood of getting an engagement out of them - make them easier to engage, less ratters, same engagements per play session. Make em harder, more ratters, same engagements per play session).

ie CCP can go to all the effort of reworking local, and the game -will not change-

If they want to make for engagements, then eliminate the chained forsaken hub as the premier isk/hr farming, and replace it with a mixture of ratting and collecting of stuff that spawns high bounty rats suitable for gang engagement, in a way that announces its presence to other players. The -optimal- isk/hr method in nullsec should be surfing your gang along a bunch of content farmed up by bears and taking it from them.

The correct change is to reduce the role of the solo ratter, because the solo ratter is inherently uncommitted and therefore eminently easily cloaked, warped to pos or docked.

Nothing annoys a bear more than taking the valuable content from him. That is what makes a bear engage.
Athena Maldoran
Doomheim
#178 - 2013-12-08 14:02:25 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Athena Maldoran wrote:
What if you had local only cover the current grid you are on. Big smile

Pants-on-head ********.


Go **** yourself..
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2013-12-08 14:08:58 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
From here:



*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2013-12-08 14:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Wait...... let me understand here....

Did I seriously read in this post that there are actually people who are so risk-averse that they want "local" chat channel removed, AND to have the Directional Scanner ditched, just so that there can be no possible way for anyone to find you other than warping to all the belts and looking around???

You DO realize you aren't the only friggin kind of person that plays this game, right?!

This is seriously the stupidest crap I have ever heard of. If you want to play alone, go play a singleplayer game.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]