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Anti-slavery Amnesty Initiative

Author
Ferro Mapindazi
#1 - 2013-12-06 19:29:11 UTC
I propose the initiative to refocus our efforts to have harsh criminal, economic, travel, and commerce sanctions against the slavers of sansha an amarr by all the free people of the cluster.

All amarr & sansha flagged vessels, and vessels piloted by sansha or amarr capsuleers will be designated as criminal with permanent -10 Concord security status that will apply to pods as well and thus become fair game targets to all the free people, militias, navies, and gate guns of New Eden. All economic activities with amarr pilots or amarr corporations will be subject to an eighty five percent (85%) tariff.

All amarr pilots wishing to immediately resign from their militia will be granted positive security status as long as they conduct no further criminal actions against Minmatar, Calari, or Gallente territory and pilots anywhere. All non militia amarr pilots who relocate out of amarr controlled empire space and never return shall be granted positive security status as a term of amnesty for their past participation in supporting the slavery cult. Any return to space controlled by the criminal amarr slave cultists will terminate the amnesty. All amarr pilots seeking amnesty shall have 60 days to relocate all their legal assets from space controlled by the criminal slave cult empire.

The amnesty will be applied to the empire of amarr if they renounce their claim to a divine right to enslave fellow human beings and emancipate all slaves and grant them full legal citizenship with the ability to immigrate to other empires should they freely choose to do so. A reparations fund shall be created to assist and support formerly enslaved humans paid by the amarr empire equal to twenty percent (20%) of their annual GDP for the next fifty (50) years. The fund will be administered by Concord and paid directly to whatever empires the formerly enslaved amarr citizens immigrate to. Strict accounting methods shall be implemented to guarantee none of the reparations fund shall ever be used to initiate military activity against the amarr empire once it renounces slavery and implements full legal citizenship to former slaves. Using reparations funds to build warships or weapons used against the former slave amarr slave empire will carry with it a permanent penalty of -10 Concord security status that will apply to pods as well.

The monstrous slavers of sansha and amarr must be isolated and defeated. The horror of human slavery that is the foundation of their cultures should no longer be tolerated. All slavers should be met with the same martial response be they sansha or amarr.

The good people of Caldari deserve a better ally. The good people of Gallente deserve a more consistent ally. Mistakes have been made, grand and tragic mistakes. Minmatar must shed no more Gallente & Caldari blood, Gallente must shed no more Caldari & Minmatar blood, Caldari must shed no more Minmatar or Gallente blood.

The free people of the cluster must exist in peace, strong and united against the real evils that threaten us all.

The monstrous slavers of sansha and amarr.

**Eject from your ship & flee! No quarter is given to the enemies of the Matari people and the Minmatar Republic! Drake Ashigaru Alliance, we hold fast to our principles, if we make a deal, we keep the deal, if you give your word you are bound by it.

Anslo
Scope Works
#2 - 2013-12-06 19:33:01 UTC
Oooh this is gonna be good.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Johanes Beaumonte
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2013-12-06 19:37:00 UTC
Oh brother, another fruitcake.

And you're going to enforce this, How?

I know it's the season and all, but enough with the fruitcakes. I'd prefer to have stout and rum cakes.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2013-12-06 19:54:22 UTC
Johanes Beaumonte wrote:
Oh brother, another fruitcake.

And you're going to enforce this, How?

I know it's the season and all, but enough with the fruitcakes. I'd prefer to have stout and rum cakes.


It sounds better the more and more you think about it, doesn't it?

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#5 - 2013-12-06 19:54:30 UTC
The only problem with the Holy Days is that you get far too many fruitcakes. You never know what to do with them all, and you eventually just have to throw them all out the airlock and pray they don't become frozen projectiles that damage nearby satelites.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Blaise Cadelanne
The Synenose Accord
#6 - 2013-12-06 19:58:44 UTC
So this is a grand ideology, but impossible to enforce. The Nation is not bound by any laws, and the Amarr Empire will not just change thousands of years of tradition, and laws to give up slavery. To attempt to declare the Amarr enemies of New Eden will require a vast amount of firepower, millions of technicians to shut down gates, and of course the cooperation among the Galantean, Minmatari, and Caldari to bring together a cohesive force to launch against the Amarr empire.

A war of this magnitude would easily kill billions on every side, and what's to stop each faction from attacking the others? Then there are the null sec territories who may see their chance to expand and take what they can while the combined fleets battle the Amarr Empire. There is simply too much in the way of loss and destruction to believe that this would ever be a functional idea. The Amarr have attempted to use force to spread their faith before, and it has not gone well, what makes you believe that this will fare any better?

I agree that slavery is monstrous, but a large scale war will just create more chaos, and that is not what New Eden needs. Diplomacy and cooperation are the tools to better our galaxy, death and destruction are only useful if they can create a lasting peace. This proposal will lead us into a very long dark war that will leave no one better off, and many a good deal worse. CONCORD was created to keep the factions in check, and to maintain the peace, it has its flaws but I don't believe that they would enforce the destruction of one of the founders either.

In the end this is a passionate plea for the state of slavery, but a foolish attempt to spark a war that could engulf all of New Eden. Fruitcakes seem to be the order of the day. Smile

Blaise Cadelanne

They bid me take my place among them, In the halls of Valhalla! Where the brave may live forever!”

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#7 - 2013-12-06 20:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
You propose that CONCORD enact security penalties and economic sanctions against a CONCORD signatory, and the largest imperial navy in the cluster? And then engage in total war against the Amarr?

Fascinating notion. I wonder how rapidly this would lead to CONCORD's dissolution, and the expansion of the CEWPA war to secure space as CONCORD's already-tarnished reputation collapses entirely.

I should wonder, then, what would happen if this grand crusade against the Amarr Empire succeeds, stripping the State of its most reliable ally; what would happen if the Federation and the Republic had no counterbalance when facing the State. While I have no doubt that the State would account well for itself and make the Federation rue the day it embarked on an attack, I prefer the current state of affairs.

Good luck on your fool's errand.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Ferro Mapindazi
#8 - 2013-12-06 20:12:48 UTC
Blaise Cadelanne wrote:
So this is a grand ideology, but impossible to enforce. The Nation is not bound by any laws, and the Amarr Empire will not just change thousands of years of tradition, and laws to give up slavery. To attempt to declare the Amarr enemies of New Eden will require a vast amount of firepower, millions of technicians to shut down gates, and of course the cooperation among the Galantean, Minmatari, and Caldari to bring together a cohesive force to launch against the Amarr empire.

A war of this magnitude would easily kill billions on every side, and what's to stop each faction from attacking the others? Then there are the null sec territories who may see their chance to expand and take what they can while the combined fleets battle the Amarr Empire. There is simply too much in the way of loss and destruction to believe that this would ever be a functional idea. The Amarr have attempted to use force to spread their faith before, and it has not gone well, what makes you believe that this will fare any better?

I agree that slavery is monstrous, but a large scale war will just create more chaos, and that is not what New Eden needs. Diplomacy and cooperation are the tools to better our galaxy, death and destruction are only useful if they can create a lasting peace. This proposal will lead us into a very long dark war that will leave no one better off, and many a good deal worse. CONCORD was created to keep the factions in check, and to maintain the peace, it has its flaws but I don't believe that they would enforce the destruction of one of the founders either.

In the end this is a passionate plea for the state of slavery, but a foolish attempt to spark a war that could engulf all of New Eden. Fruitcakes seem to be the order of the day. Smile
I think sir you underestimate the effectiveness of sanctions. The war you fear would not be possible with gate guns enforcing criminal status as they do every day right now.

What stops fleets from plundering empire space today?

Concord of course.

Why would they suddenly lose this capability ? They would not.

The more likely outcome is the sanctions would work and the amarr would reluctantly join the brotherhood of free people in New Eden. Perhaps some fear that more than they are ready to admit.

**Eject from your ship & flee! No quarter is given to the enemies of the Matari people and the Minmatar Republic! Drake Ashigaru Alliance, we hold fast to our principles, if we make a deal, we keep the deal, if you give your word you are bound by it.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2013-12-06 20:14:44 UTC
All the legal teeth you requested in this would need to come from CONCORD. It would, essentially, be the recasting of a signatory member as something akin to the Blood Raider Covenant.

This is all possible, of course, except that it would require the Empress to sign off on making her own state a Galactic Pariah. She won't. This is doomed to fail.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Ferro Mapindazi
#10 - 2013-12-06 20:17:03 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
All the legal teeth you requested in this would need to come from CONCORD. It would, essentially, be the recasting of a signatory member as something akin to the Blood Raider Covenant.

This is all possible, of course, except that it would require the Empress to sign off on making her own state a Galactic Pariah. She won't. This is doomed to fail.
Thank you sir for disagreeing without calling me a name. There is hope for intelligent communication here on IGS.

**Eject from your ship & flee! No quarter is given to the enemies of the Matari people and the Minmatar Republic! Drake Ashigaru Alliance, we hold fast to our principles, if we make a deal, we keep the deal, if you give your word you are bound by it.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#11 - 2013-12-06 20:18:50 UTC
Sir, I'd like to note that I didn't call you a name. I called your idea a name. It's a small point, but relevant.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#12 - 2013-12-06 20:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Ferro Mapindazi wrote:
Today's Batch of Frothing Lunacy


Zzzzzzz.


Addendum: Ohhh Leopold ... what the fark have your Angels been selling in Minmatar space lately? Seriously, you need to start finding test subjects for your new drug markets that aren't already psychotic to begin with. I'm sure we can find some condemned murders or something that we can make vanish from official records. Cheap.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Ferro Mapindazi
#13 - 2013-12-06 21:10:10 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:


Zzzzzzz.


Addendum: Ohhh Leopold ... what the fark have your Angels been selling in Minmatar space lately? Seriously, you need to start finding test subjects for your new drug markets that aren't already psychotic to begin with. I'm sure we can find some condemned murders or something that we can make vanish from official records. Cheap.
Sent you a little wake up notice.

**Eject from your ship & flee! No quarter is given to the enemies of the Matari people and the Minmatar Republic! Drake Ashigaru Alliance, we hold fast to our principles, if we make a deal, we keep the deal, if you give your word you are bound by it.

Anslo
Scope Works
#14 - 2013-12-06 21:13:22 UTC
Oh did he shoot you?? Is he trying to be bad ass in low sec?? Where is he! Tellmetellmetellmeeeee!!!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-12-06 21:39:11 UTC
Idiot.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2013-12-06 22:12:52 UTC
Ferro Mapindazi wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
All the legal teeth you requested in this would need to come from CONCORD. It would, essentially, be the recasting of a signatory member as something akin to the Blood Raider Covenant.

This is all possible, of course, except that it would require the Empress to sign off on making her own state a Galactic Pariah. She won't. This is doomed to fail.
Thank you sir for disagreeing without calling me a name. There is hope for intelligent communication here on IGS.


No problem at all. I see your initiative as attempting to fight your conflict on a different battlefield - the negotiating table. As such it is actually a step forward towards a peaceful settlement to the situation and not a step backwards.

As a Caldari I would oppose it simply because it would remove the support of our ally and I have no faith that the Federation would not immediately take advantage, but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate the care and attention to detail you showed in putting your policy together.

Now, you've put together the 'Or Else' part of the package, you should really give some thought to a detailed proposal on an actual solution to the slavery question that wouldn't result in economic collapse for both the Republic and Empire and starvation for all those freed slaves.

Seriously. Give it some thought. Identify some worlds they could move to. Work out how you'd feed and/or house them (Did you know you can convert old Bestowers or Sigils or Mammoths to housing complexes? Did you know the Caldari are the cluster's experts at creating ssustaining environments in artificial spaces? All that technology is purchasable - reach out to a Caldari Corporation.)

You can start making preparations! You might find you get more traction this way.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Ferro Mapindazi
#17 - 2013-12-06 22:44:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ferro Mapindazi wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
All the legal teeth you requested in this would need to come from CONCORD. It would, essentially, be the recasting of a signatory member as something akin to the Blood Raider Covenant.

This is all possible, of course, except that it would require the Empress to sign off on making her own state a Galactic Pariah. She won't. This is doomed to fail.
Thank you sir for disagreeing without calling me a name. There is hope for intelligent communication here on IGS.


No problem at all. I see your initiative as attempting to fight your conflict on a different battlefield - the negotiating table. As such it is actually a step forward towards a peaceful settlement to the situation and not a step backwards.

As a Caldari I would oppose it simply because it would remove the support of our ally and I have no faith that the Federation would not immediately take advantage, but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate the care and attention to detail you showed in putting your policy together.

Now, you've put together the 'Or Else' part of the package, you should really give some thought to a detailed proposal on an actual solution to the slavery question that wouldn't result in economic collapse for both the Republic and Empire and starvation for all those freed slaves.

Seriously. Give it some thought. Identify some worlds they could move to. Work out how you'd feed and/or house them (Did you know you can convert old Bestowers or Sigils or Mammoths to housing complexes? Did you know the Caldari are the cluster's experts at creating ssustaining environments in artificial spaces? All that technology is purchasable - reach out to a Caldari Corporation.)

You can start making preparations! You might find you get more traction this way.
An initiative that does not take into account all sides fairly has small chance of long term success. Your points are well taken.

I have hopes that despite the long horrible history of the amarr they are plain feeling people just like the rest of us. They too were born into the horrible slavery culture. I am betting that their humanity will overcome the past practices if they are offered an alternative.

I pray for the total eradication of slavery, not a genocide against the amarr people.

People are basically decent, cultures and governments can be corrupt beyond belief. That is why I proposed full amarr citizenship to all those enslaved. They have work now and fulfill an economic need in the amarr/ entire cluster economy, they simply need to have fair wages, safe working conditions, and all the other rights granted to amarr citizens.

I have grave concerns about the festering conflict between Caldari & Gallente. I do not wish it to reach the levels of hatred and despair that have for millennia plagued the Matari and amarr. At the negotiating table the free people of New Eden I hope could enact safeguards that would be acceptable to all sides.

I am a capsuleer, not unknowledgeable about war and death, but if we can avoid war I am ready to take that path yesterday!

After centuries of combat perhaps victory is available if we redefine it to mean mutual success and liberty.

I am appreciative of all constructive comments to make this initiative fully just and workable.

**Eject from your ship & flee! No quarter is given to the enemies of the Matari people and the Minmatar Republic! Drake Ashigaru Alliance, we hold fast to our principles, if we make a deal, we keep the deal, if you give your word you are bound by it.

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#18 - 2013-12-07 00:05:09 UTC
Haven't checked the IGS in a while. Good thing I did, I needed a good laugh.

Pilot Mapindazi, what do you think the odds are of your idea coming to be reality?
Dreygun
Alexylva Paradox
#19 - 2013-12-07 01:29:36 UTC
I am sorry for the sins of my people and myself, but what you suggest cannot occur. CONCORD is a neutral police force if they were to side against Amarr then it would largely dissolve. Amarr would dismantle the guns on the gates in their space and war would break out throughout the cluster.

The Caldari would not align with the Gallente on this so you can expect little help in this regard, and the Gallente would likely be to concerned with the Caldari to focus significant aid. What you wind up with is exactly what you already have. Minmatar at war with Amarr with slight aide from Gallente.

Join the Minmatar militia, fight with your people to free whomever you can. You can try to rally people to your cause, build your own corporation and align against Amarr and Sansha. Form an alliance with others corporations with similar goals. Perhaps you can make a difference.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#20 - 2013-12-07 03:36:53 UTC
Dreygun wrote:
CONCORD is a neutral police force


Is it too late for me to change my mind of what I think is the funniest statement in the thread? Pilot Mapindazi has a contender.
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