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Are the days of Local really numbered?

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-12-06 23:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Of course we depend on local. You say that like it's a bad thing.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#22 - 2013-12-06 23:37:31 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:


Dear Most Everyone,
Invest in a cheap laptop secondary computer that can run a minimal Eve client for your free trail scouting alts.



Or just a high end enough machine to handle sandboxing 2 clients so that they can't see each other to be able to check if more than 1 account is logged in on a single machine :P
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#23 - 2013-12-06 23:55:17 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course we depend on local. You say that like it's a bad thing.



It's unwise to actually depend on anything, especially in a game where they openly state they want to make changes to it.

I have backup generators in my militia bunker in case the power goes out for example. Gotta keep that ice cream cold. Can't have a revolution without ice cream. The voices say otherwise but when I put my helmet on they think I can't hear them.




Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Taal Khurin
Acorn Harvesting
#24 - 2013-12-06 23:58:52 UTC
I NEED local, i have to know if war targets are warping into my system so i can GTFO.

Call me a carebear, but i have no real other options
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-12-07 00:04:47 UTC
you come by insanity honest
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-12-07 00:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course we depend on local. You say that like it's a bad thing.



It's unwise to actually depend on anything, especially in a game where they openly state they want to make changes to it.

Except without the intel provides it would be impossible to do a lot of things in nullsec. For example there would be no way to rat without constant threat of covert hot-drops, which you won't notice until it's already too late to save yourself.

These are indisputable facts.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-12-07 00:16:17 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:
I hope they remove it from all non-Empire systems. It just doesn't make sense that you can see everybody in a system like that. Sure, it makes my travels in Null safer, but it also stops tactics such as ambushes, surprise attacks and counter attacks from being possible outside of blob warfare, and I'm a big fan of tactical planning.


why always just non empire systems, remove it everywhere, would make wardecs more interesting as well
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#28 - 2013-12-07 00:17:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course we depend on local. You say that like it's a bad thing.



It's unwise to actually depend on anything, especially in a game where they openly state they want to make changes to it.

Except without the intel provides it would be impossible to do a lot of things in nullsec. For example there would be no way to rat without constant threat of covert hot-drops, which you won't notice until it's already too late to save yourself.

These are indisputable facts.



Am I actually seeing that in a post from someone who belongs to a 35K+ organization that controls huge swaths of nullsec?

Or should I be looking for a briar patch?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-12-07 00:20:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course we depend on local. You say that like it's a bad thing.



It's unwise to actually depend on anything, especially in a game where they openly state they want to make changes to it.

Except without the intel provides it would be impossible to do a lot of things in nullsec. For example there would be no way to rat without constant threat of covert hot-drops, which you won't notice until it's already too late to save yourself.

These are indisputable facts.

You are lying.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2013-12-07 00:24:36 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course we depend on local. You say that like it's a bad thing.



It's unwise to actually depend on anything, especially in a game where they openly state they want to make changes to it.

Except without the intel provides it would be impossible to do a lot of things in nullsec. For example there would be no way to rat without constant threat of covert hot-drops, which you won't notice until it's already too late to save yourself.

These are indisputable facts.

You are lying.


Oh look, facts disputed, a 4S guy wrong, who would have ever guessed.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#31 - 2013-12-07 00:25:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Djana Libra wrote:
Xavier Higdon wrote:
I hope they remove it from all non-Empire systems. It just doesn't make sense that you can see everybody in a system like that. Sure, it makes my travels in Null safer, but it also stops tactics such as ambushes, surprise attacks and counter attacks from being possible outside of blob warfare, and I'm a big fan of tactical planning.


why always just non empire systems, remove it everywhere, would make wardecs more interesting as well



I think my idea over an ID beacon would make things interesting in highsec particularly. If you are a war target, you might want to shut off that beacon, but then be suspect to everybody and flagged for such. I have seen flagged ships get left alone on the premise that it could be a tarp. So a war target has to weigh the risks. Come up as red to the enemy, or yellow suspect to everybody? Who is worse? Who can do more damage? Is the WT scarey enough to be left alone flagged as suspect? Or perhaps looks too easy a target (a trap!)? Yes I think highsec without local would be interesting too.

Edit: the beacon allows you to be red or yellow, and what happens to someone attacking a suspect? This can turn the tables on a war target. Oh things can get interesting indeed when the people who want (highsec) PVP are afraid of being suspect flagged.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-12-07 00:32:34 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I would love to find out what would replace local.

I'm kind of hoping for something like the Mode 2 systems we use on aircraft. Back when I was in the Luftwaff.... er Air Force (damned goons got me doing it now) fighter jets had Mode 4 IFF (Friend or Foe) that allowed fleets to identify their own. This system had a drawback though: it only said "friendly or not friendly" because the codes are a kind of black box crypto that changes daily.

Mode 2 is the basic ID beacon.

I'm hoping that something like beacons would be the replacement such that a scanner can pick up say 10 ships but only 8 have positive FF response and Mode 2 style beacon is optional - to transmit an ID or not so that if you are in a space that has NRDS you can weight the cost or benefits in the use of an ID beacon. In such cases, we have an ability for players to track friendlies, potential unfriendlies, and even enemies. There there would be some intel, IF players want to provide it for the corpmates or their own benefit, or if they want to be an unidentified entity in a space and anything could happen there. But yes if they are cloaked and have all beacons off, nobody will know they are there.

It would also be interesting to see if anybody entering empire space without Mode 2 on, broadcasting their ID to Concord, gets criminal flagged. Yeah I know this is a catch 22. Turn on the ID beacon and you are "red" in the system such that perhaps the Navies are after you, but leave it off and you are suspect flagged basically for "wearing a ski mask in the park on a sunny day" and EVERYBODY can shoot you.

There won't be any I-WIN buttons. There's never such a button.


I love this idea, but if implemented there needs to be some way for a solo player to scout gates without actually being there. I'm thinking a deploy-able structure that reports to you on gate activation as lang as you are in the same system would be good. Fleets could have their scouts shoot it down to still keep movement secret, but the solo player would be some prior warning.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#33 - 2013-12-07 00:36:36 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I would love to find out what would replace local.

I'm kind of hoping for something like the Mode 2 systems we use on aircraft. Back when I was in the Luftwaff.... er Air Force (damned goons got me doing it now) fighter jets had Mode 4 IFF (Friend or Foe) that allowed fleets to identify their own. This system had a drawback though: it only said "friendly or not friendly" because the codes are a kind of black box crypto that changes daily.

Mode 2 is the basic ID beacon.

I'm hoping that something like beacons would be the replacement such that a scanner can pick up say 10 ships but only 8 have positive FF response and Mode 2 style beacon is optional - to transmit an ID or not so that if you are in a space that has NRDS you can weight the cost or benefits in the use of an ID beacon. In such cases, we have an ability for players to track friendlies, potential unfriendlies, and even enemies. There there would be some intel, IF players want to provide it for the corpmates or their own benefit, or if they want to be an unidentified entity in a space and anything could happen there. But yes if they are cloaked and have all beacons off, nobody will know they are there.

It would also be interesting to see if anybody entering empire space without Mode 2 on, broadcasting their ID to Concord, gets criminal flagged. Yeah I know this is a catch 22. Turn on the ID beacon and you are "red" in the system such that perhaps the Navies are after you, but leave it off and you are suspect flagged basically for "wearing a ski mask in the park on a sunny day" and EVERYBODY can shoot you.

There won't be any I-WIN buttons. There's never such a button.


I love this idea, but if implemented there needs to be some way for a solo player to scout gates without actually being there. I'm thinking a deploy-able structure that reports to you on gate activation as lang as you are in the same system would be good. Fleets could have their scouts shoot it down to still keep movement secret, but the solo player would be some prior warning.



Many times people have asked for a "scout drone" or a "gate probe" and many times the answer is "no get a scout alt you noob/carebear ur not l33t go back to WoW".

Question is, would such a thing cost too much money from people not needing an alternate account anyway or would it save money from all those people not using thruway 14 day accounts in noob ships?

A gate probe or drone would be epic, but I'm afraid we'll not see one for a long time. Dotlan and the system maps will have to do.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#34 - 2013-12-07 00:56:15 UTC
Simple solution just drop local outside of empire and replace with constellation chat so you know when people are near you but you'll need to hunt around to find them and have good intel to avoid them.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-12-07 01:01:25 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Simple solution just drop local outside of empire and replace with constellation chat so you know when people are near you but you'll need to hunt around to find them and have good intel to avoid them.

No. Too non-specific.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-12-07 01:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Grath Telkin wrote:
Oh look, facts disputed, a 4S guy wrong, who would have ever guessed.

Oh noes, I'm wrong cause GRRRRath Telkin said so. I'd better go cry in a corner.

Marlona Sky wrote:
You are lying.

If you're incapable of holding an honest discussion, then don't post.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#37 - 2013-12-07 01:18:27 UTC
Touchy subject.

Local is a rather automatic system. Could something be threatened by any changes? What would it be?


It's not like there's not enough cyno ships.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
stoicfaux
#38 - 2013-12-07 01:19:50 UTC
Cypherous wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:


Dear Most Everyone,
Invest in a cheap laptop secondary computer that can run a minimal Eve client for your free trail scouting alts.



Or just a high end enough machine to handle sandboxing 2 clients so that they can't see each other to be able to check if more than 1 account is logged in on a single machine :P

Last I checked, you can't run a client that's logged in with a trial account and a client that's logged in with a subscribed account.

Last I checked^2, using a VM to fake out the mixing trial/subbed clients on the same box check doesn't work due to EVE's graphics not being supported by the VMs.

So if you have a means of running trial accounts and subbed accounts at the same time on the same machine, please do share.

/too_cheap_to_fund_an_alt_account_for_scouting


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-12-07 01:21:01 UTC
It's less about any threat to existing groups and more about what certain people/groups (e.g. Marlona Sky) want handed to them on a silver platter.
They seem to forget there's already somewhere in EVE they can go to play without local, but we all know they won't go there.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#40 - 2013-12-07 01:23:56 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's less about any threat to existing groups and more about what certain people/groups (e.g. Marlona Sky) want handed to them on a silver platter.
They seem to forget there's already somewhere in EVE they can go to play without local, but we all know they won't go there.



I have read enough "remove local" threads to conclude that local is double edged and if you remove it, nobody really benefits from the loss. Having it in place, the benefit is equal.

With local, you get instant intel. So does the other guy.

Without local, you don't get instant intel. Neither does the other guy.

So please define for us pubbies (I am a Pubbie Overlord according to Joepopo) what exactly will be on that "silver platter" that you are worried about.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!