Player Features and Ideas Discussion

probably non as Blarpys are OP. so are cheapfleet Hero-atrons. so are turret based destroyers. and people only whine about kiteing condors with light missles cause they do not know how to dictate range nor expect it.. most people fail cause they dotn have forthought they just go for yolobrawler and hope they get lucky :P

I love logic of many forum users - they only see bad things about stuff they want buffed or save from nerf.

Missiles are not affected by neuts .

They are not affected by TD.

They can even shoot jammed and damped(not that they do best at this situation but still).

They can select any type damage they want (very often hulls are not bonused for kinetic only, even if they are option is still there)

They got insane range (especially STUPID light missiles).

They got no tracking problems.

They don't have to use low damage ammo to reach targets far away (cruise missile is good example).

Probably more good things but cba to list all.

And i know there are also drawbacks for using missiles. But we cannot make one weapon system flawless - else others will suck and ask for buffs - and it will never end.

We already got autocannons - perfect weapons ... just range sucks sometimes. Which is good else it would be ******** ;).

-1 to any missile buff attempt except small for HMs ... and maybe citadel.

I also love post like yours :
Let's start with range negated by damps , ecm and traveling fast - oh ... sorry but drones damage is affected by fast traveling , turrets also don't deal much damage when you got jammed or ecmed ( what kind of argument you are trying to get here ? At least you are immune to TD.
Because for example my dear poor friend , who suffers from poor state of weapon systems balance, right now i present you lasers:

1. Huge cap usage, VERY suspectible to neuts. Even if not neuted, they drain cap hard so less for mwd,reps other modules using cap. We don't have this problem with missiles
2. Set damage type to EM/Thermal. Yeah you hear it. When you shoot lasers against for example armor tanked wolf ... do i have to even go on ? Even kinetic bonused hulls with missiles will do better no matter what.
3. Terrible tracking , so easy to get under guns with lasers. I bet you got same problems with missiles.
4. TD's denies the only real good thing with lasers - range. Or screw up your tracking even further. I'm absolutely sure you got same problems with your poor missiles there. And no TE/TC does not compensate for what TD does , not at all.
5. Gigantic fitting requiremnts to fit those lasers in first place .

And about few of your nonsens arguments :
"• Yes, no tracking problems. Only problems with applying damage to non-stationary targets." No glacing hits, no misses, no grazes etc. Not at all turrets always apply 100% of damage to moving targets ...

"• Yes, so many people are running cruise missiles outside PvE..." You are not PvPing at all i see them in low sec - not that often because we don't see battleships too often in FW. And i know they are MASSIVELY used by Darkness of Despair on thier Typhoons in big null war we got now.

"• Yes, if you consider a 25-50% DPS drop with FoF missiles against random targets 'shooting jammed'. If you brought any, that is. And no, sensor dampening has the same effect for missiles: longer targeting time and/or target loss. No target, no shoot." Better than 100% dps drop we got with turrets.

"• Yes, they aren't affected by TD. Then again, they don't get ballistic computers or passive ballistic enhancers, either." It's not like i don't sacrifice mid/low slots and cpu to use those modules. I have secret my every ship comes with extra mid for tracking computer and extra low for tracking enchancer.
Sure you don't have those modules , but you can easily get web or target painter in place of those. Goddamit please stop this nonsense.

Now to best one :

" they can apply any damage type. Usually for a 25-50% DPS hit (contrary to popular belief). Assuming you have room for all the variations, again. You can count the number of turret ships that have damage specific damage on one hand."

Not sure where to even start ... 25% dps ?Sorry, but maybe you not that good at this game. But my opponents using missiles usually deal more than thier 25% dps.


Now i know missiles got some drawbacks like :

1. Delayed damage - especially at long ranges - very important in mass scale pvp. This is big drawback but you don't even know what is bad about missiles in first place.
2. Long reload time, despite having selectible damage type - it takes long time to switch. And it can be pain in heat of battle. But honestly ? You can still shoot missiles you got loaded. It's not like it's same thing that laser, blaster users have to do right ?

And of course more, but what you said actually is not true. So why trying to make fool from me, when you just did this to yourself.

Don't try to tell me missiles are THAT bad.
Sorry to burst your bubble but i do some pvp there and there. And i see missiles. They work.

Yes they work - if not for you , sorry but they do.

I actually consider them way better weapon system than many others. Sure they are not best in big fleets - i would say inferior. I'm AWARE of that. I'm not blind hater. But in many range of engagements they are very good and perform well.

You got some serious problem there - you want missiles to have no drawbacks and perform flaweless . Not going to happen, time to understand it.

So HMs not work well ... small beam lasers also work like **** ... just an example. Hell i'm going to say that HMs are in better state than small beam lasers.

I could go on, but i'm not sure you just want to exchange punches on forum or understand that missiles are not that bad actually. I'm afraid you went for option number 1.

I'm forum warrior too - i like to fight on forums, but know one thing i value good gaming experience and game balance above anything else on those forums.

That is why i'm here to share my ideas , and hopefully affect game balance even very slightly. Of course if i'm right and hopefully ignored when i'm posting bad ideas.

Time to ... start accepting missiles or change to other weapon system.

It works ... i did not like laser drawbacks and cross trained to projectiles ... still using both. But noone forces you to use missiles , really noone.

I see too many condors, hawks, caracals, breachers, talwars, coraxes etc to give even small credit to what you say.

The entire EVE community is wrong and you are right. People avoid missiles above lights and rockets like the plague, not because they are terrible, but because they just don't understand. Well done.

I'll repeat it.... just so it sinks in.

CCP doesn't want Missiles (above rockets) in this game for PVP.

They don't know how to balance them, that's why they will ALWAYS be the odd duck.

Thank you Naomi for making our point for us.

Not one of those ships even remotely use those missiles (that have the real problems being discussed here) on a regular basis. Light missiles are perfectly healthy (if maybe even need a range nerf) because they apply their damage well. All those ships (with one notable exception) use the Light Missile Launcher II or Rocket Launcher II which are still effective for their classes (frigs/dessies).

The problem is that the true cruiser missiles (Heavy Missiles, Heavy Assault Missiles and the new RLML) are incredibly bad and do a tiny, tiny fraction of their listed damage against anything or suffer from a huge DPS/Reload nerf. They are so bad that the ships that use them are not remotely viable for pvp as they really are intended for only killing Battlecruisers and Battleships or are crippled by the new RLML mechanics.

Currently Caldari pilots have no effective Cruiser, BC, or BS that uses missiles for pvp other than 100MN Strategic Cruisers that are extremely pricey and cost you SP training when lost. Ironically it seems those Strategic Cruises are only effective in Fleet Battles with Hybrid Weapons.

Add to that you will likely find Caracal's rapidly falling off your list as the RLML has been completely gutted by a new 40 sec reload to change damage types or to simply add 1 missile. This recent change appears to have gone *whoosh* over your head.

Medium Missiles (that ironically are called Heavy) are in a bad state. Light Missiles/Rockets for Frigs and Dessies are healthy.

This thread is about fixing Medium Missiles.

One of the direct conflicts in fitting is that:

a: medium missile ships are too often shield based (caldari, minmatard) and need medium slots for tank, which compete with our ability to make our damage consistent.

b: we have no low slot module that would help us apply consistent missile damage like turrets do (these exist for turrets in both medium and low slots)

I would gladly remove a BCU for a new module that would reduce missile explosion radius / increase missile speed / etc. Basically, a low slot module like Rigor and Flare rigs.

Well now we know where CCP40sec got his positive feedback.

We have these things called target painters and webs that increase sigRad and decrease target velocity, and thus indirectly increase missile applied damage up to the maximum possible.

But having a low slot item like a tracking enhancer would balance out the selection of damage application items.

Rise has admitted as much. Though even EFT makes it clear they suck if you actually use DPS graphs and don't just look at the base DPS value.