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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Scorpionstrike
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#961 - 2013-12-06 01:04:55 UTC
On the art of the ship i would prefer 3 rings similar to the astero on the front, middle, and back.

Or add wings to the side with a ring at the back and one on each wing that (in my opinion) would look better then having that ring right at the front, and the beam right at the back, it looks like 2 ships have crashed into each other at the moment, lol.
Aurora Fatalis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#962 - 2013-12-06 01:05:23 UTC
If exploration bonuses can be "free" bonuses, why not give the analyzer bonuses to EWAR ships as well, to reflect their advanced computing power?

Just for fluff (or for the future of hacking), you could even split the bonuses between the Empires: Gallente and Caldari with Data bonuses, Amarr and Minmatar with Relic.

If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you?
Jell Feed
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#963 - 2013-12-06 01:33:19 UTC
Also from what I've seen a +2 warp strength would be a welcome bonus too. :P
Arrendis
TK Corp
#964 - 2013-12-06 02:28:55 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
where this logic breaks down is when a logi fc or pair (or possibly boosting wing commanders) flies brick tanked t3s with many sebos and all the Nestors assign logi drones to them meaning logi repping is much faster, plus having a bonus to optimal range and mwd speed aids in reps landing quick. Alongside being able to use a mix of logi drone sizes and therefore applying quick small repping to keep the primaried ship alive before the larger reps land.

it obviously will not replace dedicated logi cruisers, but it provides a different form and puts the mechanic in a ship that has considerably high ehp alongside some offensive capabilities.


Except that as a dedicated logi pilot, the FC is one (two if you include the backup) of up to 255 people I need to keep alive. One or two brick-tanked proteii? They're nothing. When the FC needs reps, he'll get them. More, I'm worried about 'everything else'. 90% of the time, I don't need to have anything running on the FC, but I'm definitely running all my reppers on usually 3-4 targets simultaneously, and have to be able to switch, fast.

The idea I was responding too, moreover, was one of giving the ship the drone bonuses in place of module bonuses - ie: no remote armor repair range/effect bonuses, just drone bonuses. And drones just don't deliver the performance when it counts. They're a nice little addition, don't get me wrong, but unless you're going to give me +400% effectiveness bonus on tech II heavy repair drones, it won't do the job. And even then, I'd rather use a logi cruiser.

At +400%, each one's as good as a Large remote repper, and I can split them up into individual groups to handle different targets. Of course, it's still going to be a right-click process on the individual drone to assign it, instead of select-target-and-keypress, so it's still going to be slower to land, in addition to the travel time of the drones. Response time matters - in small gang fights, you don't have a lot of it. In large fleets, tidi means every second you waste is even longer before the reps land.

Replacing remote repair module bonuses with logi drone bonuses would mean giving the ship bonuses that are still simply not adequate for the job. Giving it drone bonuses on top of the module bonuses and the low mass (and so, markedly better speed w/the AB on) and high resists is just incredibly overpowered.
Sierria Meldek
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#965 - 2013-12-06 02:43:19 UTC
Ugh, so far I haven't see a single SoE ship I wanted to fly, could be that I think scanning is boring as ****, I digress.

I DO fly logi though, and the BS won't be able to keep pace with the cruisers so that means it's got to stay close to the main fleet, and as such is bomb fodder, and with that crappy rep range, expensive, non effective bomb fodder at that. AND, have we not learned anything from the recent NODE CRASHES OF DOOM, lose the drone doctrine, increase the rep range (15~20k), drop the scanning bonuses (hrm, or not) and give it covert ops cloak. Might be useful then...

Maybe SoE MJD, much faster cycle time lower cap useage....

This is your node Lol

This is your node on craptons"o"drones Evil

Just sayin'
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#966 - 2013-12-06 02:56:21 UTC
Sierria Meldek wrote:
Ugh, so far I haven't see a single SoE ship I wanted to fly, could be that I think scanning is boring as ****, I digress.

I DO fly logi though, and the BS won't be able to keep pace with the cruisers so that means it's got to stay close to the main fleet, and as such is bomb fodder, and with that crappy rep range, expensive, non effective bomb fodder at that. AND, have we not learned anything from the recent NODE CRASHES OF DOOM, lose the drone doctrine, increase the rep range (15~20k), drop the scanning bonuses (hrm, or not) and give it covert ops cloak. Might be useful then...

Maybe SoE MJD, much faster cycle time lower cap useage....

This is your node Lol

This is your node on craptons"o"drones Evil

Just sayin'
Considering a much cheaper T1 Domi has superior drone capabilities to this, I don't think bringing up fleet combat on the scale that causes tidi or crashes as a reason to not make this a drone ship is even remotely relevant.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#967 - 2013-12-06 04:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Seranova Farreach
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi

I am very relieved to finally show you the Sisters of EVE Battleship, the Nestor. We weren't able to get it finalized before Rubicon went out, but that's alright because now it makes a nice Christmas present (just kidding it's not until (late)January).

We all agreed that keeping the covert cloak theme was not going to work for the battleship. Instead, we've kept the rest of the exploration feel from the Stratios and Astero by giving the Nestor hacking and probing bonuses, but instead of cloaking it will receive a bonus to remote armor repair amount, drawing on the Sisters of EVE themes of aid and relief. On top of that, the Nestor (as designed currently) has incredibly low mass - around half the mass of a normal Battleship. This should make it very popular in wormholes. The rest of the attribute layout follows the principles from the other Sisters of EVE ships pretty closely, as do the bonuses.

Here's the details:

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount
100% bonus to remote armor repairer range
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700

It will be acquired in the same way that the Stratios and Astero are, via Sisters of EVE LP stores. Here are the LP offer specifics:

Nestor
1,000,000 LP
100,000,000 ISK

Discount Nestor (From the Sanctuary)
800,000 LP
80,000,000 ISK

Nestor Blueprint
600,000 LP
150,000,000 ISK

Discount Nestor Blueprint (From the Sanctuary)
400,000 LP
100,000,000 ISK

I wanted to show you guys some art, but wasn't able to get ahold of the newest version today so I'll edit later with it.

Hope this is exciting! Let me know
o/

STEALTH EDIT by Manifest brings high res concept art: http://bit.ly/1izOFm4




Its getting there slowly... needs +100m3 to drone bay. scan res is still an issue, needs to be 130 to 180.

now the lazors are meh.. i personally would like to see the high slots go down to 5. mid and low slots go UP to 7. and get a heaftier drone damage boost. like L5 = 100% dmg giving effective 10 drones that way they are still vulnerable to being popped constantly. and give a remove energy transfer amount/range too. and just to throw it in there.. a BLOPS cloak system. since the other 2 SOE ships have cloaks aswell.

finally, if the above is done we will have a viable step from battleship -> carrior, but we would need a MINI triage modual like we now have battleship -> dreadnaught because of the bastion modual.



still.. give us a mini carrior or fix the LP/Cost cause no one will want to fly one for 2bill just for the hull.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#968 - 2013-12-06 04:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Job Valador
hmmm, Wonder what the next change will be.


EDIT: in its current form I would use it in a small gang as like a flag ship for lols. that's about it. and not often either since i can do the same thing in my geddon albet not as good as the nestor would for a fraction of the price.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#969 - 2013-12-06 05:05:14 UTC
Aurora Fatalis wrote:
If exploration bonuses can be "free" bonuses, why not give the analyzer bonuses to EWAR ships as well, to reflect their advanced computing power?

Just for fluff (or for the future of hacking), you could even split the bonuses between the Empires: Gallente and Caldari with Data bonuses, Amarr and Minmatar with Relic.


this is a neat idea!

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Selnix
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#970 - 2013-12-06 05:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Selnix
If we can't have a blops logistics or a cloaking battleship, please don't give us the jack of all trades, nowhere near a master of anything option that is currently outlined as it will not be able to perform as well as the ships that are already available for most any role you could name.

If your heart is set on making it a ship for exploration and not something more interesting, at least give it some slight chance to fill that role without being multiboxed.
CCP Rise wrote:

Here's the details:

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Armor Repair amount

Role bonuses:
25% bonus to large energy turret tracking
50% bonus to large energy turret damage
50% increased strength for scan probes
+20 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Can fit Bastion Modules

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 212 / .12 / 56000000 / ????
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 200
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 32 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700
5iddhartha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#971 - 2013-12-06 06:22:32 UTC
Scan and virus bonuses seem kind of silly on a BS, even a SoE BS.

Drop those and give some warefare link bonuses.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#972 - 2013-12-06 06:46:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
(Yawn) ... I think they should swap-out the turrets for launchers instead, then it can use Rise's beloved new rapid heavy missile launchers...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#973 - 2013-12-06 07:22:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Koban Agalder wrote:
@CCP Rise

If you want to make it "logistic" ship and trying to be unique why not give big bonuses for use of LOGISTIC DRONES (bigger than traditional logi gets)? This way it's unique, it doesn't interefere directly with existing logistics and keep repping power. If it want to gank someone it launches garde/ogres. If it want to save someone it launches logistic drones (shield or armor). Imho it would go well with humanitarian aspect os SOE so ships can save and defend itself.

This way it might, MIGHT, MIGHT be possible to allow it to launch up to 10 medium drones (but this idea is very risky and need deep consideration). ( BIG NO to 10 big drones)

Regards!


The problem with putting the bonuses on logi drones is delivery time. Not only do the reps have to cycle, but the drones have to reposition. That's not a big deal if everyone's huddled up, but if people are moving around, it can be significant. Going that route would likely render the Nestor significantly less useful than most logistics cruisers in a large number of situations.


where this logic breaks down is when a logi fc or pair (or possibly boosting wing commanders) flies brick tanked t3s with many sebos and all the Nestors assign logi drones to them meaning logi repping is much faster, plus having a bonus to optimal range and mwd speed aids in reps landing quick. Alongside being able to use a mix of logi drone sizes and therefore applying quick small repping to keep the primaried ship alive before the larger reps land.

it obviously will not replace dedicated logi cruisers, but it provides a different form and puts the mechanic in a ship that has considerably high ehp alongside some offensive capabilities.


Apart from the delivery time I thought it was impossible to assign Logistic drones to a fleet member. This is why I proposed a design that would discourage the use of damge dealing drones with damage shifted to the lasers while keeping the drone/support theme by giving a bonus to rep drones. The delivery time in my opinion is not nessesarily a bad thing balancing wise.


Apart from that. There are still folks around that want a cov ops cloak or all the other BO abilities. And also folks that want this ship like a carier. But I believe we have to keep a very fine line between this ship and BO, but also between this ship and a carrier.
The gist here would be in my eyes to take a maximum of one aspect each of what a carrier and a BO does.

Launching more than 5 drones is a big NO go for me here. Also the notion of a "triage like" module for the reps. This is what makes a carrier unique. Also having a fitting service is rather stepping on - not only - a carriers toes (and also on the toes of that new personal hangar thingie).
That is why I proposed the ability to transport a fitted cruiser without a fitting service to make for a unique function to support an exploration ship.
On the other hand we already use carriers and suicide cynos, to transport our multibillion-DEDplex-dps-ships to the target area. Having a battleship jumping to a cyno directly and bring the cruiser for our scan buddy, would in this usecase still be unfavorable compared to using a carrier, because a carrier can also bring PVP ships to kill or at least put the guy - who is possibly already in the site - to flight.
So not much much stepping on toes of the carrier here.

As i said not using a carrier is detrimental, but could be leveled with the option to stealthily arrive at the destination one or the other way which is not possible in a carrier, because cynos show up on overview and on the map. Also it fits into the exploration role. And gives us an option to decide on.

Black Ops have a few unique abilities:

Jump to Covert Cyno
Jump there Cloaked
Bridge a support fleet (to a covert cyno)
Move faster Cloaked
no targeting delay after cloaking
only 5 seconds reactivation delay for cloaking (instead of 30)

Choosing only one of these, the ability to jump to a covert cyno is the only one that on one hand does not steal away too much from a Black Ops and on the other hand is not totally gimped by not having any of the other abilities.

Even if Black Ops would get Covert Ops Cloaking Devices in the future, I would argue that these - together with the ability to bridge without being a Titan - should always stay a unique feature for them.

.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#974 - 2013-12-06 07:24:17 UTC
Apart from stats I would like to point out that there are many people who don't like the design of the Nestor. There are a lot o valid suggestions in this thread:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=300818&find=unread

Pls CCP make this ship as cool as atero and stratios. Not a civilian-looking, dull design.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#975 - 2013-12-06 07:34:07 UTC
just remove the armor requirement from the remote reps. let it work for shield also and the ship would be alright.
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#976 - 2013-12-06 08:07:23 UTC
Like a few people I'm baffled by the non-traditional SoE cloaking bonuses, but it is understandable being a BS. However, I really do think it can be tweaked to fit the role while not being overpowered.

I'm not super savvy on how to "fairly" tweak it for a cloak, but I dropped the drone HP bonus for a slightly reduced drone dmg and dropped a high slot for starters. I think other minor tweaks to accomodate a Cov Ops Cloak are needed, I'm just not personally sure WHAT exactly.

Also removing majority of the cloaking bonuses that come with it to give BO an edge still would be fair. Although from what I'm reading they are on the plate for a rebalance, so it may not be entirely necessary.

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
7.5% drone damage per level

Role bonuses:
Can fit Covert Ops Cloak
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 6H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700
To mare
Advanced Technology
#977 - 2013-12-06 09:44:50 UTC
get over it guys, you not gonna get a covert ops cloak or some silly +1 drone per level.

anyway i`m really curios about how fast this thing will go with mwd and some nanofibers
tommy two feathers
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#978 - 2013-12-06 09:54:38 UTC
so when i recommended a new drone marauder they said it looked op'ed but its very similar!


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3836384#post3836384
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#979 - 2013-12-06 10:41:25 UTC
Aurora Fatalis wrote:
If exploration bonuses can be "free" bonuses, why not give the analyzer bonuses to EWAR ships as well, to reflect their advanced computing power?

Just for fluff (or for the future of hacking), you could even split the bonuses between the Empires: Gallente and Caldari with Data bonuses, Amarr and Minmatar with Relic.

Someone wants his exploration Pilgrim back P

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#980 - 2013-12-06 10:51:14 UTC
To mare wrote:
get over it guys, you not gonna get a covert ops cloak or some silly +1 drone per level.


Agreed. As a matter of fact, I think people are missing what SoE ships are all about. They're about long deeps space authonomous exploration. The reason Astero and Stratios have cloaks is because their counterparts have them, but that's not what the ships are about.

Nestor builds on the exploration theme very well. It sports the same Amarr and Gallente bonuses + optimal laser range, which makes it less dependant on resupplies. It also has a Scan strenght, a very useful bonus for any wormhole ship. We could argue that the virus strength is wasted, but then it's sort of a "free bonus", plus it gives the ship something to do when Relic or Data sites are being cleaned up (remember, WHs still have Sleepers there).

The two remaning bonuses, armor repair amount and range, give the ship a triple bonus - first, it can keep fixing its drones, meaning less dead drones, more authonomy, safer to keep even slower drones in attack and thus more dps; second, it can act as a central ship for a WH team, a sort of "combat logi"; and third, when combined with others of its kind, it makes for a hell of a spider tanking setup, particularly when taking into account its already substantial tank.

The ship makes more than worthy successor to the already impressive Navy Geddon, while adding a whole bunch of useful stuff on top of it. Honestly, now that it has the range bonus to reps, I love it.