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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#861 - 2013-12-05 17:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
BeanBagKing wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
The SoE BS will be around the price of a Mach, or other top pirate faction BSs, maybe slightly higher, nothing more. Stop whining

If thats true then there would probably be a lots less complaints, but every estimate has been on the order of three times higher. Where are you getting yours from? It also doesn't help that CCP has yet to comment on an intended price point.

He is also entirely wrong as plenty of real pirate faction battleship BPCs drop from DED sites in null sec. Such a thing does not happen for the Nestor.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#862 - 2013-12-05 17:50:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
The Gnosis is only low now because EVERYONE got one and because of the BPs from the collectors edition. Once enough of them get blow away, they will go up. Give it a year or 2. The SoE BS will be around the price of a Mach, or other top pirate faction BSs, maybe slightly higher, nothing more. Stop whining

The SoE BS is also significantly limited in where you can get it- if not from high-sec for enormous amounts of LP, the only place is within null, in controlled territory.

Also, you won't be finding Nestor BPCs in Deadspace Plexes.

This, along with the fact that there are very few mission hubs for the SoE, will push the price WAY up. I estimate that it will end up settling around 1.9 to 2.2 Billion ISK.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#863 - 2013-12-05 17:51:54 UTC
A couple ideas I've seen and suggested:

+15 to analyzer virus strength, justifying using a 2 billion ISK batteship for exploration, justifying the use of a battleship in exploration.

+2 warp core strength,as opposed to the Covert ops capabilities of the Astero and Stratios.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#864 - 2013-12-05 17:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
The Gnosis is only low now because EVERYONE got one and because of the BPs from the collectors edition. Once enough of them get blow away, they will go up. Give it a year or 2. The SoE BS will be around the price of a Mach, or other top pirate faction BSs, maybe slightly higher, nothing more. Stop whining



I can make more money selling probes.

Remember there are no rated SOE sites, LP is the ONLY method of attaining the BPC. count on 2000isk/LP because that is what the probes/launchers usually get(lowballing I may add), it drops lower supply will drop like a rock.

So at 600,000LP for the BPC, you can pretty much count on a 1.3 bil price floor only for the blueprint, which means a built hull will run 55-70% over the rest of the Pirate Ships

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:




This, along with the fact that there are very few mission hubs for the SoE, will push the price WAY up. I estimate that it will end up settling around 1.9 to 2.2 Billion ISK.


To be fair there are plenty of hubs, but I'm willing to bet that the overall amount of LP coming out of X-70 is trivial to the overall market. Nice if you can access that source, but nothing I would make a market predictions based on.

Suffice it to say these are going to be primarily generated with SOE LP out of the three high sec hubs.
Cynosurza
Northern Freight Unlimited
Young Miners Christian Association
#865 - 2013-12-05 17:58:02 UTC
Caroline Grace wrote:
1,000,000 LP and 100m ISK is a bit excessive when Nestor doesn't come with anything special for its battleship class. So far it looks like a bigger and slower Stratios with a repair bonus (and new hull desing). I was hoping for a medical bay or some other mildly crazy stuff, this is just a putting Stratios (scaled) numbers on a different hull. Not amused.


Low mass and repair ability will affect only very small amount of people who are looking forward to this ship (the whole population of EVE). Nestor should be the prime battleship of exploration across the whole cluster, not just something only considered good for wormhole space.


This ^

If you want the rep range and bonus, at least boost the base mod. It's horrible that any non-logi has to be on top of the ship it's repairing. You should nix the range bonus to this ship and just up the base mod to a 20km range. Medium repairers should be 10km, smalls should be 5km. Then you can modify the bonuses accordingly rather than just bonusing broken modules over and over again.

I really had hoped this BS would have been jump capable or blackops like. It IS supposed to be an exploration ship, right? Exploring requires cloaking and it would be unique if it had a jump range, perhaps not at the level of the BLOPS, but maybe 5 ly with a reduced fuel consumption amount. Or better yet, make it come with a built in microjumpdrive instead of the system jumping ability.

Like others here it just seems like a combination of the Astero and Stratios rather than thinking about what role it should fulfill.

Martin Vanzyl had a good idea:

Martin Vanzyl wrote:

CCP Rise,

You need to ask yourself the following question, "What does the individual capsuleer not have now, but will need in the future, given the direction that CCP Seagull is steering us in?" Or "What type of ship would we need going through THE stargate?"

There'd be no jump gates in new frontier... so a Small/Medium/Large Jump Drive - which doesn't use fuel, and has significantly less range than fueled Cap Jump Drives, but has a cooldown/recharge timer that will make it quite a strategic consideration when to use it

Clone Vat Bay - similar ability to Rorqual, clone jump into the Nestor and it spawns in space where you last left it in the new galaxy, no need to have to go all the way back to New Eden through the Stargate to jump clone to that corp event you want to attend. Make it an ability only usable 'On grid', hi, low, null, new galaxy through Stargate, so as to avoid making wspace pvp corps cry murder. Since being able to clone jump into wormhole space...Twisted

Ship Maintenance Bay - Dock cruiser and below stuff inside for fitting and repair. For fixing PVE damage to modules and PVP,,, no stations out there.

RR amount and range ability in the band between a Cruiser and Carrier.

Drone bay and bonuses that can give it teeth as well, along with the current Laser bonus.

This will most certainly justify the incredible LP and Isk cost.

Otherwise as it stands now, this ship is just a LP sink.


I think you should consider those points for this ship to make it more useful as its real role, not just a WH PVE piece of crap.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#866 - 2013-12-05 18:02:15 UTC
I'm getting mine from supply and demand. If it's too pricey people won't buy it, and if people don't buy it, then price will lower and so on. So the price will be high to start but will level out when it becomes clear what the supply and demand is. This isn't like other games, EVERYTHING in EVE is sold and bought by players, and very much depends on what people are willing to pay for that product. And there will ALWAYS be someone willing to supply.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#867 - 2013-12-05 18:13:33 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
I'm getting mine from supply and demand. If it's too pricey people won't buy it, and if people don't buy it, then price will lower and so on. So the price will be high to start but will level out when it becomes clear what the supply and demand is. This isn't like other games, EVERYTHING in EVE is sold and bought by players, and very much depends on what people are willing to pay for that product. And there will ALWAYS be someone willing to supply.



Yeah, if the price drops there is no supply. Capice?

It doesn't matter what its worth, there are competing assets for the oppurtunity cost (the LP) and THOSE have a price bottom that will not tolerate downward pressure. If the price drops under that 2000isk/LP price floor no more BPCs will come to market, supply dries up and price increases.

You are looking at the end product not the supply chain, these don't have sites like the rest of the pirate ships (effectively no cost, its drops, and not particularly uncommon ones) so there exists a cheaper supply rate.

You don't have that with SOE, you have a 600,000LP +150 mil BPC and a 400,000LP +100mil(sanctuary) BPC, this sets a hard price, because OTHER SOE items get a relatively steady return that averages 2500isk/LP which would place an nominal BPC value at 1.65bil.

....any less and the people farming the LP will just shift to what makes them the most, y'know the invisible hand and all of that.
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#868 - 2013-12-05 18:15:02 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
I'm getting mine from supply and demand. If it's too pricey people won't buy it, and if people don't buy it, then price will lower and so on. So the price will be high to start but will level out when it becomes clear what the supply and demand is. This isn't like other games, EVERYTHING in EVE is sold and bought by players, and very much depends on what people are willing to pay for that product. And there will ALWAYS be someone willing to supply.

Thats where you are wrong. Price doesn't drop all the way down to nothing, it only drops down far enough to be even with using that LP to do something g more profitable. In other words, if I can make 3000isk/LP selling probes, why would I spend that LP on a SOE BS blueprint only worth 500isk/LP because the demand is so low. Your assumption is the price will drop because there is nothing else more profitable that can be done with the LP, isk, and minerals used to build this ship. There is though.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#869 - 2013-12-05 18:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
No like I said it will cost around the price of the most pricey priate BSs OR a bit more, but this 2bil isn't gonna happen. I will be around a bil to 1.5bil, but I'm guessing closer to a bil.
Also you will have people doing Sanc missions now like they do for the other pirate factions, and as Sanc cost the same LP and price as the other pirate factions, guess what? Price will be around the same as other pirate ships or slightly right. So again I'm right :^ )
so again stop whining
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#870 - 2013-12-05 18:21:03 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
No like I said it will cost around the price of the most pricey priate BSs OR a bit more, but this 2bil isn't gonna happen. I will be around a bil to 1.5bil, but I'm guessing closer to a bil.

Well I think you're wrong, personally. The Nestor will be much more difficult to obtain, as it won't be found in sites, and the only easy way to get them is very expensive.

It will be at least 2 billion ISK. People always want to make a profit, and they won't unless it sells for at least that much.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#871 - 2013-12-05 18:22:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Won't be 2bil, sorry. Might at first, but ALL ships are pricey as hell when they first hit EVE. After a month or so it wil go down. And bring that up, when you do Sanc missions, maybe have it so faction or officers can drop a BP for a SoE ship, sounds cool to me
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#872 - 2013-12-05 18:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
No like I said it will cost around the price of the most pricey priate BSs OR a bit more, but this 2bil isn't gonna happen. I will be around a bil to 1.5bil, but I'm guessing closer to a bil.


It will because that is the lower end of what you will ever see on the market.

Because when I'm cashing LP I look at the market, look at my spread sheet and determine what is going to make the best return before click buy on the LP store screen.

If I DON'T see 1.4-1.7 bil for the BPC I buy something else, this is very simple economics, I'm not sure why you are arguing it.

I'll grant its not worth (close to) that price, but anything less I'm not trying to put it up. Particularly when I just turned over 3 stratios BPCs for 270mil (2k/LP) on a buddie deal and the buyer was thrilled that I hooked him up in that fashion. It was 30% under market and low for ANY SOE LP exchange. For a bit of perspective you are still looking at a 1.35 bil blueprint at that rate, which is about 3 times the normal pirate ship BPC.

...and I'll get it or I won't sell it.

See?
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#873 - 2013-12-05 18:26:04 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
No like I said it will cost around the price of the most pricey priate BSs OR a bit more, but this 2bil isn't gonna happen. I will be around a bil to 1.5bil, but I'm guessing closer to a bil.
Also you will have people doing Sanc missions now like they do for the other pirate factions, and as Sanc cost the same LP and price as the other pirate factions, guess what? Price will be around the same as other pirate ships or slightly right. So again I'm right :^ )
so again stop whining

You cited economics pressure, had two people tell you in different words how it doesn't work like that, and simply come back with "no like I said..." You saying so doesn't make it so. Have you ever taken an economics course in your life? Will someone not on a smartphone post a supply/demand curve and explain how it works?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#874 - 2013-12-05 18:29:15 UTC
BeanBagKing wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
No like I said it will cost around the price of the most pricey priate BSs OR a bit more, but this 2bil isn't gonna happen. I will be around a bil to 1.5bil, but I'm guessing closer to a bil.
Also you will have people doing Sanc missions now like they do for the other pirate factions, and as Sanc cost the same LP and price as the other pirate factions, guess what? Price will be around the same as other pirate ships or slightly right. So again I'm right :^ )
so again stop whining

You cited economics pressure, had two people tell you in different words how it doesn't work like that, and simply come back with "no like I said..." You saying so doesn't make it so. Have you ever taken an economics course in your life? Will someone not on a smartphone post a supply/demand curve and explain how it works?



Dead on, there is no downward pressure on the supply end there are plenty of money makers in the LP store.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#875 - 2013-12-05 18:32:33 UTC
Believe what you like, it won't cost 2bil, sorry. But we will see I guess. Everyhing comes to what people are willing to pay, after awhile people won't pay 2bil for a faction BS. So prices will drop. As I play the market to make ISK in EVE and have over 500bil I might not know everything about supply and demand, but I have ap retty good idea.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#876 - 2013-12-05 18:34:21 UTC
Ahh yes, the e-peen argument.

Whatever dude.
Mr Pragmatic
#877 - 2013-12-05 18:36:09 UTC
So here is the question on everyones mind.































Does the ring spin.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#878 - 2013-12-05 18:36:39 UTC
:^ ) Enjoy trying to sell your SoE Bs for around 2bil after a month or so.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#879 - 2013-12-05 18:38:00 UTC
It better spin, or so help me god!
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#880 - 2013-12-05 18:41:54 UTC
Onictus wrote:

Dead on, there is no downward pressure on the supply end there are plenty of money makers in the LP store.

He's not alone in having absolutely no understanding of how LP store economics works. Did you see Economic Super Genius Mynna's TMC article where he claimed SoE LP would drop to 800-900 isk/LP because "that's what other high sec ship bpc's go for"?