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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Peter Ska
True Faces Hungary
Goonswarm Federation
#721 - 2013-12-05 03:03:37 UTC

Harvey James wrote:
WOW!!! 56mil mass .... it begs the question why where you so stingy with attack battleships the phoon still has 100mil mass


With the low RR range, and superlight mass... even a shuttle will be able to bump it out of reprange, so I wouldn't even try to use that RR bonus...

in other news,
-carebears won't be able to handle the gank magnet factor, pvpers don't really need this add to their domifleets
-this won't be the star of next AT, domis and ishtars still rule (and has no counter yet)
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#722 - 2013-12-05 03:06:13 UTC
Selnix wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% bonus to drone damage and hp

Role bonuses:
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System range
25% bonus to drone speed and activation range
200% bonus to cloaked velocity
Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds


Problem with swapping the range bonus that way is you end up severely gimped on range. The AB bonus was also to allow it to have some amount of maneuverability without a huge cap drain.


indeed i overlooked the 150 is actually 750 at lev v. but i dont see it needing that much range.

perhaps when they rebalance tech III we will have a usefull covert ops logi ship.

i see it as a mixed role. though i would just be happy with 200 or 300% extra range.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Armakoir
Entity 42
#723 - 2013-12-05 04:34:10 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:

Maybe ditch the whole exploration aspect of the ship and focus more on the medic theme? Make it a sort of medic BLOps with a jump drive, RR bonuses, ship refitting, and able to fit command links? Like a mobile triage base or something?


THIS

+1 (for the most part)

Focus on the medical/support theme and drop the exploration bonuses.

Just because this ship is designed with long term exploration in mind doesn't mean you actually have to put exploration bonuses on it. The fact that this BS has teeth is enough to suggest that it's designed for such exploration.

CCP Rise, this ship is a great opportunity to step outside the box. SOE is unlike other "pirate" factions, so you can really do something cool here, and right now this design is kinda meh, especially considering the pricetag.
Lilliana Stelles
#724 - 2013-12-05 04:55:41 UTC
A few thoughts.

I'm seriously worried about this things EHP.
Pirate HP combined with armor resist bonuses? As if bhaalgorns and vindicators didn't have enough HP already. At least it doesn't have a web bonus, so we can assume they'll need some tracking in the lows... oh wait, 6 mids.

I'd also rather see a cloaking bonus on it.
Maybe not a "can use covops cloaks"
Maybe a "can use covops cloak with *insert penalty here* but cannot be bridged"
or 25% cloaked velocity per level or something.

Not a forum alt. 
Lilliana Stelles
#725 - 2013-12-05 05:19:02 UTC
Also, the design here is sortof ********.

Why is the external ring there if it can't cloak? Isn't the whole point of separating the warp drive from the ship so it can warp cloaked?

Assuming it has relatively low agility, it'd make more sense to label the big ring as a reaction wheel, explaining the agility, and stick the warp core in those stupid looking fins on the end.

Not a forum alt. 
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#726 - 2013-12-05 05:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Also, the design here is sortof ********.

Why is the external ring there if it can't cloak? Isn't the whole point of separating the warp drive from the ship so it can warp cloaked?

Assuming it has relatively low agility, it'd make more sense to label the big ring as a reaction wheel, explaining the agility, and stick the warp core in those stupid looking fins on the end.

Well, in the picture, it's labeled "ZG Technology"

I don't know quite why it needs Zero-G tech, but there must be a good reason.

Also, I love the design.

And also, it seems like you don't want the ship to be as strong as it can be. Why is that? a deep-space exploration battleship designed for prolonged deployment should surely be as durable as a normal battleship, if not more so.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#727 - 2013-12-05 06:22:12 UTC
Armakoir wrote:

CCP Rise, this ship is a great opportunity to step outside the box. SOE is unlike other "pirate" factions, so you can really do something cool here, and right now this design is kinda meh, especially considering the pricetag.


This. That's why people were expecting a Covert Ops cloak or something really different. The logi battleship idea... it's part way there. A battleship with a covert cloak, definitely one of a kind. I think giving it one would also be in line with the theme of the SOE ships so far.

If not a cloaking BS, the attitude seems to be it should be more like a mini-carrier. I know a few people have been suggesting that it get a ship hangar or capital-sized reps, but it could also be more carrier-like if it could field fighters with a special bay that stores 25000-50000 m3 of fighters. Separate 400 m3 drone bay, standard bandwidth. Then you'd have a ship that could take fighters into neighboring wormholes without using caps that would crash the wormholes (or not even fit). You'd be able to use fighters in high-sec.

Is that overpowered? No, that's the most expensive subcapital in the game (barring AT prize ships). Of course everybody and their mom wants one. I do not feel that way about the proposed Nestor.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#728 - 2013-12-05 06:38:41 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
Armakoir wrote:

CCP Rise, this ship is a great opportunity to step outside the box. SOE is unlike other "pirate" factions, so you can really do something cool here, and right now this design is kinda meh, especially considering the pricetag.


This. That's why people were expecting a Covert Ops cloak or something really different. The logi battleship idea... it's part way there. A battleship with a covert cloak, definitely one of a kind. I think giving it one would also be in line with the theme of the SOE ships so far.

If not a cloaking BS, the attitude seems to be it should be more like a mini-carrier. I know a few people have been suggesting that it get a ship hangar or capital-sized reps, but it could also be more carrier-like if it could field fighters with a special bay that stores 25000-50000 m3 of fighters. Separate 400 m3 drone bay, standard bandwidth. Then you'd have a ship that could take fighters into neighboring wormholes without using caps that would crash the wormholes (or not even fit). You'd be able to use fighters in high-sec.

Is that overpowered? No, that's the most expensive subcapital in the game (barring AT prize ships). Of course everybody and their mom wants one. I do not feel that way about the proposed Nestor.

I like this idea... maybe I'll make up yet another layout for the ship.

I've been suggesting making it into a Sub-Carrier for a while now- I wonder if you've seen my designs?

However...fighters may start to make this very complicated. I though about that previously, and I feel like it'd be hard to justify using fighters on a battleship. It may be the most expensive subcapital in the game, but that would take some work to implement properly.

I have already suggested a sort of logistical miniature carrier- perhaps it could be modified to be more of a... covert carrier? I feel like a ship that could act like that could prove extremely useful.

If it had a covert ops cloak and was still a sort of mini carrier, it could work if it had a specific attribute that prevented it from fitting cynosural field generators. It could be explained as such: a ship of this size, being adapted specifically to use a covert cloaking system, is unable to generate a cynosural field due to interference caused by systems onboard.

I will post again shortly with an updated plan. Stay tuned, especially you, CCP Fozzie.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Ju'Rei Oh
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#729 - 2013-12-05 06:47:27 UTC
So the Astero is currently running for about 100,000,000 ISK because its a covert ops frigate that doesn't require a month's worth of training.

The Stratios will most likely settle in the 375-425 million ISK range because it is a recon cruiser (or cloaky T3) that doesn't require two months worth of training.

Keeping in line with the current and most likely future pricing of the Astero and Stratios, the Nestor will either run for at least 2 billion ISK... or simply not be pursued at all. The latter seeming the most likely.

The price tag of the Astero and Stratios are justified by their capabilities coupled with their relative rarity. Rarity defined by other faction ships having multiple sources that aren't almost universally despised. But the Nestor in the original post is shaping up to look like nothing special at all, while being incredibly time consuming to obtain for no discernible reason.

So, if you want people to care, try to do something to make it interesting and unique in order to justify running hundreds to thousands of missions to get one. Something consistent with the other ships of the faction. Stealth, agility, exploration, drones, etc. Don't just chicken out at the last second and make an agile 2billion ISK logistics brick with a smattering of bonuses that will never be used because you can't figure out a way to balance a covert ops cloak on a big hull.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#730 - 2013-12-05 06:48:33 UTC
quiet disappionted at the combined amarr gallentee line. srsly the kings of armor tanking and 6 low bs? are you joking me?

and honestly 5 turrets? 5 heavys/sentrys weres the facemelting dps?

as for the future caldari/minmatar line i expect maximium loki link faggotry the first ever 3kms bs (that isnt a mach)

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#731 - 2013-12-05 06:58:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
This. At its pricetag it needs something special to make anyone even consider using it. Bonus to cloaked speed like blops BS has is the minimum really. Being able to deploy 6 or 7 sentries could be good, or at least makes it better than a 150m isk Dominix.

I refer you back to my original proposal, which had 100/600 bandwidth/drone bay and could use 10 bonused drones, with the blackops cloaked speed bonus. 10 hammerhead IIs with the 10% damage bonus per level at level 5 does 475 DPS, which increases to 700 with two DDAs. I deliberately chose to avoid sentries here for two reasons: sentry ships are boring and we have plenty of those already, and because scout drones are easy to counter in blobs (smartbombs). You could increase the bandwidth to 125 I suppose which would allow you to use 5 sentries, but I'm not entirely sure if that's a good idea. If the proposed damage here is too much the bonus could be scaled back to 7.5% per level or even 5% per level.

As far as the blops bonus goes, the full bonus may be overpowered. Maybe a scaled back bonus of 500% or even 375% would be a better idea.

You could even do away with the laser bonuses entirely and this would still be a good ship.

Not only would this make the ship worth flying, but also impractical to field in blobs (one of the main balance concerns) and more importantly it would be unique and fun.



Still liking this over all other suggestions so far. Just saying What?

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Krimishkev
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#732 - 2013-12-05 07:00:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Krimishkev
I'm sorry but this ship is crying for Black Ops type bonuses. This current configuration is boring, and stupid. Also it can EASILY be exploited for powerbloc RR blobs.

Maybe wormhole jumping? :) (limited just like current blackops but able to create jump portals to and around wormhole space.)

Probably being able to directly jump the battleship into a wormhole would be over powered, but being able to create jump portals TOO other wormholes would definately be cool, and a feature that would make wormhole space more accessable.

2 cents.

*waits for the wormhole alliances - "no my nanoribbons!"*
Trabelaide
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#733 - 2013-12-05 07:04:34 UTC
Without a Covert Cloak the ship is pointless. Why spend more isk on a ship when there are cheaper ships that can do any aspect of PvE or PvP better.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#734 - 2013-12-05 07:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Here is my new design and idea for the Nestor: a covert, Pseudo-Sub-Carrier, specifically designed with wormhole mobility and effectiveness in mind:

Nestor

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range
50% bonus to drone tracking, optimal range and velocity
450% bonus to cloaked velocity

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Devices

Drones under the control of this ship will not be targeted by Sleeper Drones

The Nestor is incapable of fitting Cynosural Field Generators

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers
Drones (bandwidth/bay): 200/500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 95 / 7
Cargo Capacity: 700

Seeing as CCP is going in a unique direction with the Sisters of EVE ships, I have designed a battleship that would truly be worth 2 billion ISK. This ship is designed using a number of ideas and themes, including CCP Fozzie's own statement that this ship will be able to operate in wormholes effectively.

The ship has a Covert Cloak cabability to make wormhole travel and additional use viable: a battleship will be found very quickly if it cannot stay cloaked in such an environment.

Additionally, if it will operate in wormholes, the Nestor will have a system onboard specifically designed to prevent Sleeper Drones from targeting it's own drones. If not for this, it will not be able to effectively combat Sleeper Drones.

However, with the system necessary installed on the ship, as well as the subsystems required to fit a Covert Ops Cloaking system to it, the ship has lost the capability to fit any sort of Cynosural Field Generator: this will effectively prevent the ship from being overpowered in the sense that it will be able to be an effective "hot-drop" catalyst.

The Nestor will be the single most expensive sub-capital ship in EVE Online: I believe that this, along with the fact that the Sisters of EVE faction ships are a very unique breed, opens a lot of doors for this ship. I personally believe that this ship could be used in an effective manner with this design, and would not be an upset to the balance of the game, owing to its extreme cost.

Thank you for reading this: I appreciate it very much.

And CCP Fozzie, if you read this, I would humbly ask you to think about it for a while.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Cahvus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#735 - 2013-12-05 07:12:15 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Here is my new design and idea for the Nestor: a covert, Pseudo-Sub-Carrier, specifically designed with wormhole mobility and effectiveness in mind:

Nestor

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range
50% bonus to drone tracking, optimal range and velocity
450% bonus to cloaked velocity

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Devices

Drones under the control of this ship will not be targeted by Sleeper Drones

The Nestor is incapable of fitting Cynosural Field Generators

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers
Drones (bandwidth/bay): 200/500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 95 / 7
Cargo Capacity: 700

Seeing as CCP is going in a unique direction with the Sisters of EVE ships, I have designed a battleship that would truly be worth 2 billion ISK. This ship is designed using a number of ideas and themes, including CCP Fozzie's own statement that this ship will be able to operate in wormholes effectively.

The ship has a Covert Cloak cabability to make wormhole travel and additional use viable: a battleship will be found very quickly if it cannot stay cloaked in such an environment.

Additionally, if it will operate in wormholes, the Nestor will have a system onboard specifically designed to prevent Sleeper Drones from targeting it's own drones. If not for this, it will not be able to effectively combat Sleeper Drones.

However, with the system necessary installed on the ship, as well as the subsystems required to fit a Covert Ops Cloaking system to it, the ship has lost the capability to fit any sort of Cynosural Field Generator: this will effectively prevent the ship from being overpowered in the sense that it will be able to be an effective "hot-drop" catalyst.

The Nestor will be the single most expensive sub-capital ship in EVE Online: I believe that this, along with the fact that the Sisters of EVE faction ships are a very unique breed, opens a lot of doors for this ship. I personally believe that this ship could be used in an effective manner with this design, and would not be an upset to the balance of the game, owing to its extreme cost.

Thank you for reading this: I appreciate it very much.

And CCP Fozzie, if you read this, I would humbly ask you to think about it for a while.

Lots of great points, +1 from me!
Krimishkev
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#736 - 2013-12-05 07:14:00 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
TL;DR


Dude, this is ridiculously OP. The ship isnt going to just be used for the purpose you want it for. 250 Of those ships would be a murder fleet. All day, errday.
Krimishkev
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#737 - 2013-12-05 07:16:23 UTC
My argument is the SOE family of ships so far is based on covert ops, why is the flag ship BS not a black ops of some flavor.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#738 - 2013-12-05 07:22:43 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
Armakoir wrote:

CCP Rise, this ship is a great opportunity to step outside the box. SOE is unlike other "pirate" factions, so you can really do something cool here, and right now this design is kinda meh, especially considering the pricetag.


This. That's why people were expecting a Covert Ops cloak or something really different. The logi battleship idea... it's part way there. A battleship with a covert cloak, definitely one of a kind. I think giving it one would also be in line with the theme of the SOE ships so far.

If not a cloaking BS, the attitude seems to be it should be more like a mini-carrier. I know a few people have been suggesting that it get a ship hangar or capital-sized reps, but it could also be more carrier-like if it could field fighters with a special bay that stores 25000-50000 m3 of fighters. Separate 400 m3 drone bay, standard bandwidth. Then you'd have a ship that could take fighters into neighboring wormholes without using caps that would crash the wormholes (or not even fit). You'd be able to use fighters in high-sec.

Is that overpowered? No, that's the most expensive subcapital in the game (barring AT prize ships). Of course everybody and their mom wants one. I do not feel that way about the proposed Nestor.

Fighters suck. Sorry.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#739 - 2013-12-05 07:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Krimishkev wrote:
My argument is the SOE family of ships so far is based on covert ops, why is the flag ship BS not a black ops of some flavor.

My only reason for not doing something like that is that the Sisters of EVE are also focused on learning about the mysteries of New Eden: they require a very sturdy, capable ship such as this to do so in the harsh environments found in some environments, specifically wormholes.

They do not operate in fleets: the SoE are, for the most part, powerful explorers that operate on a mostly solo basis, and are capable of taking on quite powerful enemies.

A Black Ops ship would certainly be interesting, and would at least partially fit the theme, but it doesn't fit it well enough in my opinion.

Black Ops ships are capable of fitting Cynosural Field Generators and Covert Jump Portal generators. A ship such as this would not be operating with a fleet ready to back it up, especially in a wormhole, and so this sort of arrangement is unnecessary and is very much opposing to the theme of the Sisters.

Designing the Nestor specifically prevent those sorts of modules from being used is very specific: I have strong reasons for doing so.

Additionally, having onboard systems to prevent its drones from being targeted by Sleepers gives it a much more viable use in wormhole exploration: no other drone boat can effectively combat Sleepers, and if this ship is designed specifically to be used in wormholes, I feel that this is a necessary addition. It also gives a good explanation as to why a cynosural field generator could not be fitted to the Nestor, if the system interferes with it.

A ship such as this would be the first of its kind, a truly unique vessel: much like the Stratios and Astero are to their respective classes, this ship is completely unlike other battleships.

I appreciate your input, but I have put a great deal of thought into this design: I truly hope that it catches the attention of more people, specifically CCP Fozzie or Rise.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Arrendis
TK Corp
#740 - 2013-12-05 07:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Michael Harari wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Sure, we've got smaller sigs and move faster, but sentries don't care about that nearly as much as large turrets do.

Except they do. They have the same signature resolution as large turrets, and their tracking speed is also roughly equivalent.

Edit: Replaced with a better comparison that includes LR turrets as well.


But the tighter volleys (all of the firing when the drone assist fires, instead of when all the F1 monkeys keypress) means they suffer from the damage being spread over time less - which has the effect of negating the sig benefits.


That is not how signature works.


Allow me to clarify: the timing of the incoming damage being tighter means that the likelihood of surviving the alphastrike is lower. Having a lower sig that reduces the incoming damage below the level of 'you died before reps landed' is of more use when the damage is more spread out - specfically because it increases the likelihood that you'll live through enough of the damage for the first remote repairs to land, allowing you to survive the rest. Thus, having the damage occur in a tighter window reduces the odds of surviving long enough to receive remote reps. Since the net benefit of the smaller sig is 'I don't die', encountering a state of 'I died' has thus negated that benefit.