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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#461 - 2013-12-04 13:46:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
Design of the Nestor:

http://i.imgur.com/wfp5ukP.png

And I'm suddenly not interesed in stats of this ship. How could you make such a cr*p CCP? What the hell is this?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#462 - 2013-12-04 13:46:09 UTC
RR range on a 200k ehp hull should be very limited.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#463 - 2013-12-04 13:50:03 UTC
Electrique Wizard wrote:
NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level
Multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote repair amount
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% increased strength for scan probes50% Bonus to tracking Links (Symetry with Optimal Laser Bonus)+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers50% Bonus to Energy Transfers (SoE ships need lots of Cap - Weapons and Tank)
Note: can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generators and Covert Jump Portal Generators. No targeting delay after decloaking. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds.

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700


FIXED IT


Dropped the scanning and hacking bonuses for something more appropriate for a support ship
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#464 - 2013-12-04 13:50:11 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi hi

I haven't been in the office today so sorry for the break in communication. I'm still not in actually, so I don't have time to go into tons of depth here but I wanted to address a few of the trends I see so far in the feedback.

First, I think we should get some kind of range bonus on the reps. 100% sounds about right, but we need to talk about this as a team before anything gets committed to. I'll get back to you once we can figure out where to go.

Second, It's really not getting a covert cloak . This is an extremely powerful capability and it's possible that it should stay off limits for battleships completely. On top of that, if there was going to be a covert battleship, black ops is where we need to start. We will be looking at them for a balance pass eventually, they are one of the remaining classes that haven't gotten their tiericide pass yet, and we can approach this topic when that happens.

Last, I'm seeing some complaints or concerns that it feels kind of all over the place. This is definitely intentional. In the posts for the Stratios and Astero I think I mentioned that one of the designs we are trying to emulate is the Gnosis. Ships capable of doing many things but being the absolute best for few. The hacking and probing bonuses are a good example of that here. We didn't choose them over something else that would make the ship a powerful fighter, we just included them to give the ship more options.

I'll be back in the office tomorrow and I'll catch up on the thread fully and try to cover anything big that I missed here.


I agree that covops is overpowered for battleships, but why is it not overpowered for smaller ships? ****'s broken.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#465 - 2013-12-04 13:52:37 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:


I agree that covops is overpowered for battleships, but why is it not overpowered for smaller ships? ****'s broken.


Covops cloak basically gives you the ability to choose your fights, which is something battleships are supposed to be bad at.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#466 - 2013-12-04 13:54:54 UTC
As usual, missing Faction Destroyer and Battlecruiser...

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#467 - 2013-12-04 13:55:14 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Covops cloak basically gives you the ability to choose your fights, which is something battleships are supposed to be bad at.

What exactly are battleships good at now outside the safety of fleets and PvE?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#468 - 2013-12-04 13:56:44 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Covops cloak basically gives you the ability to choose your fights, which is something battleships are supposed to be bad at.

What exactly are battleships good at now outside the safety of fleets and PvE?


They are good for roaming while playing a game of dota between jumps. You cant do that with smaller hulls.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#469 - 2013-12-04 13:57:24 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Covops cloak basically gives you the ability to choose your fights, which is something battleships are supposed to be bad at.

What exactly are battleships good at now outside the safety of fleets and PvE?


dying to T3s and abcs
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#470 - 2013-12-04 14:01:29 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
They are good for roaming while playing a game of dota between jumps. You cant do that with smaller hulls.

That's funny.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#471 - 2013-12-04 14:03:05 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
[quote=Michael Harari]Covops cloak basically gives you the ability to choose your fights, which is something battleships are supposed to be bad at.

What exactly are battleships good at now outside the safety of fleets and PvE?



So true Big smile. It was said numerous times that problem with all BS classes is that instead of being big powerful and tough ships, they are a slow moving bricks that serve as a target practice and are unable to hit anything. They just take have a high paper eph...
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#472 - 2013-12-04 14:05:01 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi hi

I haven't been in the office today so sorry for the break in communication. I'm still not in actually, so I don't have time to go into tons of depth here but I wanted to address a few of the trends I see so far in the feedback.

First, I think we should get some kind of range bonus on the reps. 100% sounds about right, but we need to talk about this as a team before anything gets committed to. I'll get back to you once we can figure out where to go.

Second, It's really not getting a covert cloak . This is an extremely powerful capability and it's possible that it should stay off limits for battleships completely. On top of that, if there was going to be a covert battleship, black ops is where we need to start. We will be looking at them for a balance pass eventually, they are one of the remaining classes that haven't gotten their tiericide pass yet, and we can approach this topic when that happens.

Last, I'm seeing some complaints or concerns that it feels kind of all over the place. This is definitely intentional. In the posts for the Stratios and Astero I think I mentioned that one of the designs we are trying to emulate is the Gnosis. Ships capable of doing many things but being the absolute best for few. The hacking and probing bonuses are a good example of that here. We didn't choose them over something else that would make the ship a powerful fighter, we just included them to give the ship more options.

I'll be back in the office tomorrow and I'll catch up on the thread fully and try to cover anything big that I missed here.



A few things,

1) Range bonus on the reppers is an absolute must have....
2) I disagree with the covert-ops cloak and battleship, wholeheartedly
3) Bonuses all over the place make for a crappy ship. The Gnosis was a give-away, this is a pirate battleship that will cost as much or more than a carrier it needs to be good at SOMETHING.

The scanning bonus needs to go, there is no practical use that it would ever have on a battleship, particularly in light of the warp speed and acceleration changes, I run sites in a T2 Cov-ops.....because its quick and hard to catch, there is NO WAY I would go scanning in a battleship, none, ever. It would take an 10 minutes to get between cans if you got a large spread.

So far as the cov-ops bonus, I'd say try it, that would make it worth the price, it won't have the gank of a T1 Dominix or the tank of something like a Baddon, and I can do Domi/rattler/geddon a LOT cheaper. Even if it can't fit a cov-ops cloak allow it to use cov-ops portals someting that can go along on a blops gang....and now we have something interesting.

I'd say
Toss the laser range bonus (it wound't be able to run them and a tank with local reps anyway)
Get rid of the scanning bonuses
Add repair range in place of the laser bonus....by level
and add the ability to fit a cov-ops cloak in place is silly scanning bonus, barring that at least be able to use cov-ops portals.

Either way, without re-cloak or delay bonuses I don't think a cov-ops cloak would be very scary.



Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#473 - 2013-12-04 14:08:27 UTC
The ship reps as much as 3-4 guardians, has vastly superior tank and sensor strength. The range should be downright terrible.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2013-12-04 14:16:44 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
The ship reps as much as 3-4 guardians, has vastly superior tank and sensor strength. The range should be downright terrible.


It'll also take longer than a carrier to lock most of the time, and move at a 1/3 of the speed of a gaurdian

....and for that price, I'll just drop a carrier and be able to actually lock something.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#475 - 2013-12-04 14:21:13 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
The ship reps as much as 3-4 guardians, has vastly superior tank and sensor strength. The range should be downright terrible.


It also doesn't have a 70m (45-55m with links/x-instinct) signature, a cap-chain, range or 10 lockable targets. Even with lows fully devoted to tank, you're looking at about the same amount of resistances for both the guard and the nestor, with the nestor having ~60% more armorbuffer compared to my guard at least, at the expense of sigtanking.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#476 - 2013-12-04 14:23:01 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
The ship reps as much as 3-4 guardians, has vastly superior tank and sensor strength. The range should be downright terrible.


It'll also take longer than a carrier to lock most of the time, and move at a 1/3 of the speed of a gaurdian

....and for that price, I'll just drop a carrier and be able to actually lock something.

You can't drop a carrier that easy in lower class WHs. In fact you need to build it in them.
You can't open a Cyno in deadpspace, so this ship could potentially have a role in DED sites. Which is fine for a exploration ship .. to have a role in a exploration site.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
DukeAlsmariSilver
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#477 - 2013-12-04 14:24:07 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Covops cloak basically gives you the ability to choose your fights, which is something battleships are supposed to be bad at.

What exactly are battleships good at now outside the safety of fleets and PvE?


They are good for roaming while playing a game of dota between jumps. You cant do that with smaller hulls.


I logged in just to like that.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#478 - 2013-12-04 14:24:46 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
The ship reps as much as 3-4 guardians, has vastly superior tank and sensor strength. The range should be downright terrible.


It'll also take longer than a carrier to lock most of the time, and move at a 1/3 of the speed of a gaurdian

....and for that price, I'll just drop a carrier and be able to actually lock something.


It has 6 mids. You can fit triple sebo if you want.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#479 - 2013-12-04 14:26:01 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
The ship reps as much as 3-4 guardians, has vastly superior tank and sensor strength. The range should be downright terrible.


It'll also take longer than a carrier to lock most of the time, and move at a 1/3 of the speed of a gaurdian

....and for that price, I'll just drop a carrier and be able to actually lock something.


yeah, but if we pretend for a minute that they'll be nerfing carriers soon so they aren't the most mobile ships in the game
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#480 - 2013-12-04 14:28:17 UTC
Hello CCP and armchair warriors.
I suggest NOT mucking aroung with the bonuses (cf the maurader back and forth)
try it like this for now and see if people can make the low range uber strong spider tank work and see how fun the bumping them apart /bombing them is.
What we don't really need is to have these things treading on the toes of logi or carrier roles.
Maybe make some rigs and /or implants that add to RR range when u add some more rigs/implants to the game so that relatively modest range bonuses to RR come at a cost.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85