EVE General Discussion

That's a really easy argument to make considering your vast wealth and SP pools. The same can not be said for new players starting out with nothing. Hell even a vet like myself lost a merlin doing the new tutorial missions in the last adv combat because I didn't realize just how far away they'd be able to fire compared to my merlin with a **** fit that couldn't catch them, and was unable to defend myself.




I'm confirming nothing of the sort. I'm merely pointing out that giving a brand new char access to high level PVE content is an utterly silly argument to make when looking at the overall balance of the game.



Yeah and the argument is safety. My point is that it super easy to stay safe in null, which you just pointed out. Just dock up. Its lawless space, if you want to use it, you have to protect it.

Again back to real world examples, it would take a massive amount of gang activity with huge losses to shut down the industry of a city. It would only take one well trained person in a farm community to scare everyone there shitless.

Keep in mind that I'm not advocating that a cloaked frig should be able to shut down activity in a system. That is indeed a balance issue that needs to be looked at. Again the answer is a buff to null, not a nerf to hi sec.

Quick fix? Make any and all incursion pockets equivalent to a 0.0 "dungeon". Since the system already has the cyno avoidance barrier in place, whereas the whole system would retain it natural security system, each and every incursion pocket could be set at 0.0 without Concord interference.

So let the farmers look over their shoulders instead of rolling in the cash without worry.

And the problem that you and every other person in here advocating for nerfs to hi sec income, is that a lot (if not all) of your complaints can be addressed without touching the income of either sec's.

Frankly the only thing this game REALLY needs is more isk sinks.

Hey GD,
Rarely post but often read, been in game since 2006 without break (except for holidays ) I love eve and have always wanted this game to be the game we all know it can be. Even so, I read GD daily and have put on my asbestos pants before continuing...

I'll first off freely admit I don't live in nul atm, I have lived in nul off and on, and under the current sov mechanics - even been in a small corp trying to hold sov (a `junction` system with 7 gates in and out, hilarious. Like pitching a flimsy tent on a motorway junction ) But I have some ideas on Sov;

Sov to me says `who is the dominant force in the system`, who is calling the shots? Not `who put up large HP sructures (flags) that say they own it, but they don't seem to be around? To remedy this maybe;

* Make sov based on occupancy and activity;
To represent this maybe something similar to the incursion bar, maybe more axis if multiple entities are contesting. The entity with the largest share of this bar/pie chart is the sov holding force - but with a range in the `middle` of this chart to give a contested status to a system. These balances shouldnt flip overnight, but maybe a week or two time spans would be viable. (on this score I'll admit I wouldnt know what to suggest) The way this bar/chart moves will be critical to gameplay as follows;

* Occupancy is the number of pilots of a particular alliance/corp within the system, basic I know but maybe good for determining space that is actually used by `sov holders`. And I'd reckon a clear mechanic here should be cloakers dont count, one potential exploit. Systems rarely used could even fall into `unclaimed` status?

* Activity, this is key to the idea. Activity constitutes ratting, mining etc normal "im here using this system" type activities, these things and ocupancy above will `move` the sov bar/chart, more slowly than the following though. The main thing that should gain sov however is the purpose of eve - pew pew. Killing ships of rival sov claimants helps claim the system significantly - thus enforcing military superiority in the system. Again, these changes should take time, but not an age to swing from one to the other.

* BIG strucures - these things will still be important, but not neccesary to conquer. Maybe a big change in these would be they are property of the sloar system rather than alliances, almost independant entities who will provide usual control and bonuses to the holding sov group though. ie your outpost will still let you charge docking and decide who can dock etc, but once sov is gained by another group - they take orders from them. Structures could still be destroyed ofc, but maybe make the hp grind way less critical. Essentially moving structure smashing way down the list of stuff to do, and make it about internet spaceships.

What I'd hope these changes would achieve would make sov yours `if you use it/defend it`, not `if youve stuck a flag in it and never been back`. I'd also hope these move sov away from sructures and make it about spaceships, which is kinda why we are here.I'll admit the above ideas aren't too fleshed out, but hope they contribute to lines of thought on sov. And apologies if I've shiptoasted.

This thread is terrible. A lot of people in this thread are terrible, their experience on the subject being mostly from legends. As I said earlier, I'm not an economy wizard or isk printer, in fact I prefer to spend time looking for people my butt-budies can punch in the face rather than earning money.

Now, this thread did get derailed slightly from "Why sov null income sucks" to typical "Why null income sucks". Income from pirate missions, with rare implants - Slaves, Snakes and highly valuable ships like Cynabals, Machs, Drams, Bhaals, Vindis all that good stuff pay well. Then again, those are not available in Sov Null.

So first let's take a look at our favorite customers: DEDs, Belts and Anomalies.

- DEDs have a random chance of spawning high-end loot. If you're lucky you may have billions in your pocket in one day. If you're unlucky or just average, you may come out with a nice stack of Overseer Effects and that's it. GG, thanks for trying the RNG, no hard feelings.

Their spawn rate isn't exactly super-high. Cutomers at those stops are either locals with the firepower to burn them quickly and run off to the next one, increasing their chance of getting good loot or squatters that find some safety in the fact they'd have to be scanned down - and that DEDs have gates, making it harder for an enemy to land tackle. On the income scale of things, they don't factor that bad - your biggest reward, a module/bpc, is a commodity. Its price changes and stays relevant to the value of ISK.

- Anomalies are your trusty-rusty thing to deal with, just kill rats and warp to the next one. They're basically upgraded belts with names - they are visible immediately to an enemy, and the only thing they do have is more rats than there are in a belt. Income is an absolute sum of rat bounties + loot. Bounties don't adjust for market changes. At this moment, a Forsaken Hub pays about 20m ISK - you're not buying anything shiney for 20m ISK. 1,4 mil bounty on a battleship was actually worth something a long time ago.

Even if you only and only fly doctrine fleets, a doctrine DPS boat (Mega, Zealot, TFI/Hyperion whatever FOTM your alliance picked for this month) will set you back over 200 million ISK. That's a base minimum, some ewar sips (weblokis, pointing proteuses) can cost up to and over a billion ISK. Those ships are reimbursable past the first investment, but if you happen to be PvPing too the money from your losses will start adding up.

Anomalies (And DEDs for that matter) are composed out of big amounts of rats dealing certain type of damage. Ideally you want to burn through them as fast as possible, so you minimize tank and maximize gank (Old Hub-burning blaster naga comes to mind.) to burn rats down quickly and bounce to the next anomaly. Oh and you want it done AFK preferably, because shooting hundreds of rats is mind-numbingly boring.

This generates income of ticks that pile up with time. Unlike with DEDs there's no incentive to stay on the field when hostiles arrive - they can see you and your tank is far from pvp worthy - to actually tank the rats and achieve firepower needed to take them out quickly, you likely left your resist holes as they were and just stacked on hardeners corresponding to rat damage. It's a "dock or die" situation, binary outcome and rarely a fight.

Surely this brings up a thought... what if you didn't stack so highly on gank to grind anomalies fast? What if you plugged all holes, went in full pvp fit and laughed in the face of danger? Well, then your income would drop - to the level it'd actually be more viable for you to...? nailed it - do it all in hisec. There's no danger there - hell, missions, just like pirate ones, sides from bounties give you LP. LP that can be traded for commodities that don't have a set ISK value.

Okay so... up the bounties!
Terrible idea, even economically ******** people like me get it - it will only increase the amount isk made out of thin air and put into the economy. Okay at first, then the value will stabilize and we'd be back to square one.

Increasing amount of DED/Faction loot would be equally bad, just driving down the price of modules that are actually supposed to be quite rare. I'm sure T2 manufacturers would love every battleship flying with a Core X-Type.

From my uneducated opinion, null kind of needs a shift to commodity-based income (like wormholes). By the looks of what Ghost Sites do and the relic/data revamp, CCP is testing the waters here. Then hisec needs a nerf. Badly.

I think you misunderstood his idea. He said "incursion pockets equivalent to a 0.0 "dungeon"" This means only the pocket were people are fight the incurrions would have no protection.

He didn't say the system itself would have no protection. So your scenario wouldn't be possible given his idea.

I'm pretty sure the idea that anyone can stand any nerf without complaint is false.

Its human nature to fight for the resources you have. Expecting people to act against their self interest is foolish.

Changes have been happening in the last 6 months that have shaken a lot of entrenchments on both sides.

Ice belts are now much smaller and less easy to farm
Player controlled PoCos got added

Null got a massive buff to industry slots
Null got a massive buff to anom asteroid belts.

I think your time would be better spent on fighting for buffs to null in the appropriate areas rather than fighting to take away resources from someone else.

Yet that massive buff to industry slots did not even bring null close to competing with single highsec systems like Sobaseki. Anom's have been nerfed.

CCP has already said they don't want power creep so that means nerfing highsec. You can search the thread for the arguments that have already made about it.

This is a dodge some people use to excuse their lack of willingness to see the right thing done. And it's untrue. I benefited from null sec pre-anom nerf. I benefited from incursions pre-incursion nerf. I made a boatload of isk before the FW nerfs. I supported every one, because I'm playing a video game and the important thing is quality game play not imaginary space money.

I fly a mach. I love my mach. CCP said they are gonna nerf the Mach (I hope not too much), I agree with it. you also see that I (a null sec PVE player) and AGAINST buffs to null sec.

Don't try to assume everyone is as selfish as everyone else is. Some of us don't condone imbalance even if it benifits us.



"Taking away" something that is imbalanced isn't really taking away something, it's balancing. I'm sorry that some of you can't see that the pile you are sitting on isn't proper, but the fact is it isn't and those of us interested in a great overall game experience are going to continue to say so.

And WTF is an "anom asteroid belt"?

How where they buffed? Unless you think that "2 less frigates in a sanctum" thing was a "buff" lol. if that's what you mean, then you're wrong it was a nerf, becuase they added frigates to the best anom (forsaken hubs) which made it harder for you average null anom farmer to make isk (most null systems won't have sanctums if you upgrade).