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Eve Down Under Bombshell: No Sov overhaul until at least Winter 2014

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S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#381 - 2013-12-03 16:05:12 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:

Because there are no intel channels in 0.0 alliances reporting any and every ship seen around.
You just have to keep an eye on that blinky header and bubble the hell the gates for those ratting systems.

"what are defensive strategies made obsolete by changes in Rubicon, alex?"


OMG a gang of inties are going to kill you after Rubicon?
Neah, it's not a spike a players in local... a spike you could see it before when they used nullified T3s instead.
Valterra Craven
#382 - 2013-12-03 16:16:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Jenn aSide wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Neah, 0.0 is much more difficult:
1. intel channels
2. bubbles on gates (i know crow can go past them now but, you still know they are coming)


how do you know?
Quote:

3. lvl3 missions giving better LP than HS lvl4 (i've been there in outer ring, i know)


This will be relevant when we can bubble high sec stations
Quote:

4. DED sites giving way better stuff in return


Another high seccer myth. DED sites give RANDOM rewards. Is mission or high sec incursion rewards random?

Quote:

5. belt rats you can't compare with HS
and a lot more stuff.... even for miners/gas harvesters if they feel the need to do it.



Belt rats lol. Some one seems stuck in 2009.


Posting using one of my mains. Old BoB industrialist here.

I won't say I was high up in the chain (because I wasn't)
I won't say I was made rich by null sec (I wasn't)
I won't say I lost a lot (I lost maybe 200-300mil worth of ships across 2 accounts in my entire stay in 0.0) (if that)

What I did do was run one of the last major chains in t2 production. To the tune of filling 3 NPC factory stations full bore worth of t2 comps for 24/7 every month and still not having enough slots. I saw none of that revenue.

What I will say is that I did make all of money by doing one activity and one activity only, belt rat killing.

Seriously, I based out of PR-8 (think thats the name) and ran a few systems up and down that pipe around the NOL-M9 area.
I didn't play every day and I didn't play for hours a day.

But what I can say is that I did so in a raven with an alt that looted and near the end salvaged as well (blood raider salvage was awesome back then) My raven had no dmg mods and was armor tanked (yes I was crazy back then)

What I can say is that that income was far better than I ever made in Empire, or could make now in my empire activties.
I made 4 freighters, a carrier and a dread with refining the meta 1 mods and the hauler spawn drops (which you couldn't pick up with freighters back then... I'm looking at you trit drops)

Yes, there have been a lot of changes since then. (incursions, etc) But none of these really compare to the income that belt rat hunting generated back then. Incursions take fleets, time to setup, time to travel, etc. Then if you are lucky they have to be in hich sec space to be safe (there may be one or two in the list that are in high sec) Plus you have to compete with other incursion groups wanting to do the same sites.

Yeah I haven't been to 0.0 since 2008, but the isk per hour doing missions versus belt ratting can not have changed that significantly. Especially if you aren't stupid, have 2 accounts (which all the goonies in here are saying the use in hi sec anyway) I had systems that every belt had a least 3 1mil or better bs rats in each belt that could be completed in minutes... and that was without dmg mods! Hell killing those stupid elite cruisers in some missions takes more time than killing a whole belt spawn.

This was no risk to me (I had allaince intel changes, and just found an allaince pos whenever someone entered local, took no time to scan down and was very time efficient. etc (I lost more in hi sec due to one suicide gank by TEST just in my implants alone than I ever did in Null). I really just dont understand people making arguments here that hi sec should be nerfed because null income is so bad. WTF are you guys doing there that makes it so bad?!
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#383 - 2013-12-03 16:17:36 UTC
I think it's fairly well established that nullsec content generates wealth faster than highsec content.

Anybody who says otherwise doesn't actually play in nullsec. Of course, there is risk and logistics that can bite into the profits, but they are there to be taken.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#384 - 2013-12-03 16:17:50 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Because there are no intel channels in 0.0 alliances reporting any and every ship seen around.
You just have to keep an eye on that blinky header and bubble the hell the gates for those ratting systems.


I find i8t really annoying that high sec people try to use "omg intel channels" when comparing null sec isk making to high sec. You know what intel means, it means STOP RATTING SOMEONE IS COMING. ie, the thing you high sec types always bring up when talking about isk making is one of the things that CUTS isk making in null lol.

Intel channels don't help you when the people coming to kill you logged off in system or come though a wormhole into your system (or a system nearby where there is no one in there to report intel).

The thing high sec people also miss is that an intel channel is a human activity, unlike CONCORD, which is automated.





Actually, if you check my posts i didn't compare anything with HS.
I did it with WHs and NPC null but i still find it fun how this goons crybabies complain about HS when you can make more isk even in NPC null than HS.


I'm not a goon, i'm a pve player who understands that high sec is seriously unbalanced.

The null constellation my alliance uses as a ratting ground is currently perma-camped but some guys who like to blops drop on people. No complaints here, EVE is EVE, they are doing a good job forcing us to move around.

So i refit my ships to travel and explore, as did my buddy. We went around the region outside out home constellation scanning and doing minor sites. We even went "next door" to a region owned by a hostile alliance and did some ratting in their upgraded systems. On the way back to our region we go chased by a few tech3 ships (loki and 2 tengus) but thanks to the mighty Micro jump Drive we were able to get away after we crossed into our home region.

And both of us realized that we were wasting time and losing isk. So me and my buddy jump cloned to our high sec incursion clones, flew 20 jumps to the newest incursion, X'd up in the incursion community's chat with our Vindicator fits and made 150ish mil an hour in the comfort of high sec NOT getting chased by tech3 ships or camped by Blops dropping stealth bombers.

When we got bored of incursions, off we went to out mission agents (Trust partners for me, Sisters of EVE for him) and continued to make isk in safety.

So instead of flying my domi and typhoon in null sec risking destruction (which is good for the game if we had died), I spent last night in high sec making damn near the same isk in safety with MUCH less hassle/effort. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#385 - 2013-12-03 16:23:33 UTC  |  Edited by: S'No Flake
Jenn aSide wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Neah, 0.0 is much more difficult:
1. intel channels
2. bubbles on gates (i know crow can go past them now but, you still know they are coming)


how do you know?
Quote:

3. lvl3 missions giving better LP than HS lvl4 (i've been there in outer ring, i know)


This will be relevant when we can bubble high sec stations
Quote:

4. DED sites giving way better stuff in return


Another high seccer myth. DED sites give RANDOM rewards. Is mission or high sec incursion rewards random?

Quote:

5. belt rats you can't compare with HS
and a lot more stuff.... even for miners/gas harvesters if they feel the need to do it.



Belt rats lol. Some one seems stuck in 2009.


3) because the first half billion isk in ORE space was made from LP doing lvl3s to get standings so i can run those pretty lvl4 mining missions which give you a sh*t load more LP in return.

4) i see your point but in HS you can kill people with at undock without problems. only a few are using undock BMs.

5) compare apples with apples. HS DEDs also have random income but the mods from HS DEDs are way cheaper from what you get in 0.0 DEDs.

Also, you have incursions in LS/0.0 and people are running them... see RnK ...
And even HS incursion communities go after LS incursions when everything it's dead in HS. I can check WTM mailing list for you if you want :)

EDIT: damn, so i'm not a HS number X alt in the end?
EDIT2: sorry, the HS number X alt was from the parrot not you.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#386 - 2013-12-03 16:23:35 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:

Because there are no intel channels in 0.0 alliances reporting any and every ship seen around.
You just have to keep an eye on that blinky header and bubble the hell the gates for those ratting systems.

"what are defensive strategies made obsolete by changes in Rubicon, alex?"


OMG a gang of inties are going to kill you after Rubicon?
Neah, it's not a spike a players in local... a spike you could see it before when they used nullified T3s instead.


I would love for CCP to do a SQL pull of ratting ships/freighters lost in null over a week, and ratting ships/freighters lost in high sec over the same week. Not that they could separate out ratting ships from PvP losses, but it would sure be interesting to really see where the dangerous space is, at least from the database's perspective, not some null sec cartel propagandists like their goon group.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#387 - 2013-12-03 16:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:

Because there are no intel channels in 0.0 alliances reporting any and every ship seen around.
You just have to keep an eye on that blinky header and bubble the hell the gates for those ratting systems.

"what are defensive strategies made obsolete by changes in Rubicon, alex?"


OMG a gang of inties are going to kill you after Rubicon?
Neah, it's not a spike a players in local... a spike you could see it before when they used nullified T3s instead.


I would love for CCP to do a SQL pull of ratting ships/freighters lost in null over a week, and ratting ships/freighters lost in high sec over the same week. Not that they could separate out ratting ships from PvP losses, but it would sure be interesting to really see where the dangerous space is, at least from the database's perspective, not some null sec cartel propagandists like their goon group.


In my experience, deep nullsec is about the safest area in the game, safer even than highsec (by a longshot) - simply due to the incredibly low population.

I am quite positive statistics would back this up.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#388 - 2013-12-03 16:29:49 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:


Posting using one of my mains. Old BoB industrialist here.

I won't say I was high up in the chain (because I wasn't)
I won't say I was made rich by null sec (I wasn't)
I won't say I lost a lot (I lost maybe 200-300mil worth of ships across 2 accounts in my entire stay in 0.0) (if that)

What I did do was run one of the last major chains in t2 production. To the tune of filling 3 NPC factory stations full bore worth of t2 comps for 24/7 every month and still not having enough slots. I saw none of that revenue.

What I will say is that I did make all of money by doing one activity and one activity only, belt rat killing.

Seriously, I based out of PR-8 (think thats the name) and ran a few systems up and down that pipe around the NOL-M9 area.
I didn't play every day and I didn't play for hours a day.

But what I can say is that I did so in a raven with an alt that looted and near the end salvaged as well (blood raider salvage was awesome back then) My raven had no dmg mods and was armor tanked (yes I was crazy back then)

What I can say is that that income was far better than I ever made in Empire, or could make now in my empire activties.
I made 4 freighters, a carrier and a dread with refining the meta 1 mods and the hauler spawn drops (which you couldn't pick up with freighters back then... I'm looking at you trit drops)

Yes, there have been a lot of changes since then. (incursions, etc) But none of these really compare to the income that belt rat hunting generated back then. Incursions take fleets, time to setup, time to travel, etc. Then if you are lucky they have to be in hich sec space to be safe (there may be one or two in the list that are in high sec) Plus you have to compete with other incursion groups wanting to do the same sites.

Yeah I haven't been to 0.0 since 2008, but the isk per hour doing missions versus belt ratting can not have changed that significantly. Especially if you aren't stupid, have 2 accounts (which all the goonies in here are saying the use in hi sec anyway) I had systems that every belt had a least 3 1mil or better bs rats in each belt that could be completed in minutes... and that was without dmg mods! Hell killing those stupid elite cruisers in some missions takes more time than killing a whole belt spawn.

This was no risk to me (I had allaince intel changes, and just found an allaince pos whenever someone entered local, took no time to scan down and was very time efficient, and posed literally no risk to me etc (I lost more in hi sec due to one suicide gank by TEST just in my implants alone than I ever did in Null). I really just dont understand people making arguments here that hi sec should be nerfed because null income is so bad. WTF are you guys doing there that makes it so bad?!


Go to null sec. Belt rat for a week.

Come back to high sec. Get standings so you can do lvl 4 missions for either sisters of EVE of Trust partners (Thukker). Sell sisters probes, Statios BPCs, sisters probe launchers and/or Nomad implants.

Then come back and tell me about belt ratting. If you can remember it.

Also, that last sentence I bolded. Null sec isk isn't bad, in many ways (systems upgrades) it's better than before.

But high sec isk making activities are also better. Sure, incursions need fleet,s but the incursion communities provide the fleets. All i have to do is "X up" in a community's chat with my fit and I'm in.

Simply flying a scimitar in an incursion fleet bring in 120+ mil an hour just repping folks, compared to all the hassle and effort of null sec just to make a bit more isk. Not really worth it to be in null, as very many people learn after spending time in some renter corp just to come back to high sec.

Hell, low sec is a much better place to make isk now. I can't orbit a freaking beacon in a warp core stabbed frigate in null sec and make faction warfare LP lol. Some folks are pulling down ridicules isk farming FW. And thanks to the things like Micro jump drives and mobile depots, Lvl 5 low sec missions are VERY doable. All this for less risk (no bubbles) than you get in null sec.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#389 - 2013-12-03 16:35:28 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:


In my experience, deep nullsec is about the safest area in the game, safer even than highsec (by a longshot) - simply due to the incredibly low population.

I am quite positive statistics would back this up.

Your experience is wrong then lol.

How can ANy space not protected by automated space police be safer than space where automated space police will come in and shoot you if you do the wrong thing. The whole idea that any part of null is "safer" than high sec is offensively dumb.

The poster Infinity Ziona proved the potential danger of deep null by taking ONE badly fit tech3 ship (lol Shield Proteus) out there and killing a bunch of ratters single handedly, (that same tech3 ship would not have been able to gank 1 single high sec mission boat before being CONCORDED).

High Sec makes people insane.
Arduemonl
Doomheim
#390 - 2013-12-03 16:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemonl
Null sec. Where more than 90% of the players aren't. This thread is just another whine from the vocal minority.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#391 - 2013-12-03 16:40:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


In my experience, deep nullsec is about the safest area in the game, safer even than highsec (by a longshot) - simply due to the incredibly low population.

I am quite positive statistics would back this up.

Your experience is wrong then lol.

How can ANy space not protected by automated space police be safer than space where automated space police will come in and shoot you if you do the wrong thing. The whole idea that any part of null is "safer" than high sec is offensively dumb.

The poster Infinity Ziona proved the potential danger of deep null by taking ONE badly fit tech3 ship (lol Shield Proteus) out there and killing a bunch of ratters single handedly, (that same tech3 ship would not have been able to gank 1 single high sec mission boat before being CONCORDED).

High Sec makes people insane.


Perhaps because you can just camp gates and cargo scan people until you see one worth suicide ganking, then do it up?

People do this all the time. I was talking to a goon the other day who was bragging to me about how they PLEX fairly easily by just suicide ganking in highsec.

Go into the map and filter by "ships destroyed in the last hour" and glance at where those ship kills are.

Now go over to the deep portions of nullsec. Strangely there are almost no ship kills! Funny how that is.
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#392 - 2013-12-03 16:44:31 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:


Because there are no intel channels in 0.0 alliances reporting any and every ship seen around.
You just have to keep an eye on that blinky header and bubble the hell the gates for those ratting systems.


I find i8t really annoying that high sec people try to use "omg intel channels" when comparing null sec isk making to high sec. You know what intel means, it means STOP RATTING SOMEONE IS COMING. ie, the thing you high sec types always bring up when talking about isk making is one of the things that CUTS isk making in null lol.

Intel channels don't help you when the people coming to kill you logged off in system or come though a wormhole into your system (or a system nearby where there is no one in there to report intel).

The thing high sec people also miss is that an intel channel is a human activity, unlike CONCORD, which is automated.





Actually, if you check my posts i didn't compare anything with HS.
I did it with WHs and NPC null but i still find it fun how this goons crybabies complain about HS when you can make more isk even in NPC null than HS.


I'm not a goon, i'm a pve player who understands that high sec is seriously unbalanced.

The null constellation my alliance uses as a ratting ground is currently perma-camped but some guys who like to blops drop on people. No complaints here, EVE is EVE, they are doing a good job forcing us to move around.

So i refit my ships to travel and explore, as did my buddy. We went around the region outside out home constellation scanning and doing minor sites. We even went "next door" to a region owned by a hostile alliance and did some ratting in their upgraded systems. On the way back to our region we go chased by a few tech3 ships (loki and 2 tengus) but thanks to the mighty Micro jump Drive we were able to get away after we crossed into our home region.

And both of us realized that we were wasting time and losing isk. So me and my buddy jump cloned to our high sec incursion clones, flew 20 jumps to the newest incursion, X'd up in the incursion community's chat with our Vindicator fits and made 150ish mil an hour in the comfort of high sec NOT getting chased by tech3 ships or camped by Blops dropping stealth bombers.

When we got bored of incursions, off we went to out mission agents (Trust partners for me, Sisters of EVE for him) and continued to make isk in safety.

So instead of flying my domi and typhoon in null sec risking destruction (which is good for the game if we had died), I spent last night in high sec making damn near the same isk in safety with MUCH less hassle/effort. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.


I know a lot of people can make a lot of ISK from incursions.
When RnK deployed in outer ring for the goons/test war, i did the same, went to incursions and i can tell you for sure WTM can't get those numbers.
Also, i'm pretty sure most of the incursion communities are not going close to the ISK ISN it's making so using extreme cases like 150mil ISK/h is not really a good concept.

Personally i can make more ISK from lvl3 security in outer ring compared with lvl4 in HS.
And i don't even talk about how much you can make doing boring lvl4 mining in outer ring compared with mining missions in HS :)

Yes. It's more dangerous in null but it pays better...
My experience it's with NPC null. ... and i'm pretty sure pirate NPC null it's even better.
Compare that with sov 0.0 where security it's 5 times better ... and goons are still crying in forums.


Valterra Craven
#393 - 2013-12-03 16:44:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Jenn aSide wrote:


Go to null sec. Belt rat for a week.

Come back to high sec. Get standings so you can do lvl 4 missions for either sisters of EVE of Trust partners (Thukker). Sell sisters probes, Statios BPCs, sisters probe launchers and/or Nomad implants.



This is one aspect of an entire system. The answer here is not to nerf hi sec, but to buff null sec, add a crap load more agents in more than one region in null sec. They already get more LP per missions and less expensive LP offers. Make sure that ratio stays the same. Problem solved.

Jenn aSide wrote:


But high sec isk making activities are also better. Sure, incursions need fleet,s but the incursion communities provide the fleets. All i have to do is "X up" in a community's chat with my fit and I'm in.



Which requires an active incursion community in your time zone with a viable hi sec incursion which is not always the case.
But if you are so hell bent on this mechanic being a huge thing for hi sec, again the answer is to come up with the same mechanic for null. While high level DED sites may require fleets, there really isnt any comparable to incurrsions in null, so just make random rat empires invade other rat spaces. Problem solved.

Jenn aSide wrote:

Simply flying a scimitar in an incursion fleet bring in 120+ mil an hour just repping folks, compared to all the hassle and effort of null sec just to make a bit more isk. Not really worth it to be in null, as very many people learn after spending time in some renter corp just to come back to high sec.


Repping also brings with it a lot of stress that belt ratting doesn't. If you are the cause of someone elses losses thats a lot of pressure, where as if you lose a ship in Null sec its no ones fault but your own.

Jenn aSide wrote:

Hell, low sec is a much better place to make isk now. I can't orbit a freaking beacon in a warp core stabbed frigate in null sec and make faction warfare LP lol. Some folks are pulling down ridicules isk farming FW. And thanks to the things like Micro jump drives and mobile depots, Lvl 5 low sec missions are VERY doable. All this for less risk (no bubbles) than you get in null sec.



It might be a better place to make isk, but it is hella lot more risk than Null isk ever was or ever will be. There's a big population difference in FW space then there is null space.

Edit: You are also moving the bar some, this discussion was mainly about Null vs Hi sec income... FW is Low Sec...
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#394 - 2013-12-03 16:50:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
But high sec isk making activities are also better. Sure, incursions need fleet,s but the incursion communities provide the fleets. All i have to do is "X up" in a community's chat with my fit and I'm in.

Simply flying a scimitar in an incursion fleet bring in 120+ mil an hour just repping folks, compared to all the hassle and effort of null sec just to make a bit more isk. Not really worth it to be in null, as very many people learn after spending time in some renter corp just to come back to high sec.


Maybe logis are needed more but if you don't fly a pirate BS ... or god forbids, a cladari ship, you can wait in line for hours to join a fleet and that time it's 0 ISK/h.

Not to mention flying around between incursions 20+ jumps in a BS. Or flying to a HUB for ammo (not every one it's using those shini Nightmares) will make that ISK/h go down ... a lot.

Maybe i should buy a logi char next time the station it's camped.
Valterra Craven
#395 - 2013-12-03 16:52:14 UTC
Double post
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#396 - 2013-12-03 16:55:32 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
The only thing I will comment on as to what has been discussed in the last few pages is the assertion that it is far too easy to project massive amounts of power in Null Sec.

This is exactly true and has been a literal Pandora's Box of trouble since the system was introduced, and it is far too difficult to disrupt this ability.

Hopefully this is one of the "chunks" that will be dealt with in the near future.

I largely agree with this, though I'm not really sure how to fix it without utterly breaking basic 0.0 <-> highsec logistics. Geography is no barrier in the current meta, and so every war is a world war. That eliminates the ability of small entities to break into 0.0 and grow away from the big guys.

I think 0.0 <-> highsec logistics can survive some pretty significant changes in that regard.

Long before Jump Freighters were introduced we were running full on escorted logistics caravans. These runs often ended in (or entailed en route) confrontations that were quite tense. It's a lot more difficult to keep a group of freighters alive than it is to kill them. It was often pretty enjoyable for all concerned, and a good source of conflict (or at least a prime opportunity for a show of force to the locals). It also encouraged the growth of local trade hubs.

I personally don't mind a long trip, if the odds are decent there will be action along the way.

However I also recognize that there are many who would get very upset if things went back to that all the time, and I understand why they would feel that way.

That's why I'm a fan of making it easier to interdict "easy" travel modes without taking them away completely. That way life is easy and profitable in times of peace, but can quickly become much more difficult and dangerous (but by no means impossible) thru a modest effort on the part of an adversary.

The key being it is just as easy for you to interdict their easy travel modes, and their ability to focus large fleets quickly and easily. This encourages smaller, faster moving groups on both sides... and provides more objectives and targets for smaller scale combat.




Nullsec players hate conflict more than highsec players. Good idea though, and it could bring back actual piracy.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#397 - 2013-12-03 17:05:25 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:


Perhaps because you can just camp gates and cargo scan people until you see one worth suicide ganking, then do it up?

People do this all the time. I was talking to a goon the other day who was bragging to me about how they PLEX fairly easily by just suicide ganking in highsec.

Go into the map and filter by "ships destroyed in the last hour" and glance at where those ship kills are.

Now go over to the deep portions of nullsec. Strangely there are almost no ship kills! Funny how that is.


i'm sure someone could post a link to more recent info, but here's a good starter for you. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/3235
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#398 - 2013-12-03 17:11:17 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
The easiest way to apply a quick fix to nullsec would be nerfing highsec. Remove station slots from NPC corp members, reduce the amount of highsec slots to the same amount available to unupgraded outposts, and only allow station slot access to people who have offices there. The rest of highsec production/research can be switched to POS. That would make production/research more viable for nullsec and can be scaled so production is worth doing in lowsec.

It also adds content to highsec as wardecs will be more significant because there are assets people can threaten/defend.


So, San Francisco will have less pubs, hotels, offices, etc than Anchorage because all the gold and diamonds are up there and people should move up.

Oh wait, this is a game and comparing anything in game with RL it's useless.


Give it up.
You are dealing with a goon, and one of their leaders, who stands to benefit hugely on a personal level when CCP hammers high sec again (or even more so when CCP makes high sec stations conquerable, because the PoCo mess was just the start).

It is amazing how quickly these guys can turn "current sov is bad" into "high sec is too easy rich".

I also enjoy reading all the posts from newly minted renters about the risk/return of null sec, given that they did not lift a finger to conquer the space they now rent, now surrounded in a nice warm blue blanket, that makes Providence look like Somalia in comparison.

But sadly, what the goon leadership wants will inevitably be implemented. The null sec cartels' political connections on the CSM and with CCP "backchannels" is far too powerful to be stopped.



While I think the "nullsec is poor highsec is ISK fountain" propaganda is a lie and indeed nullsec cartels push this as a red herring, I'm not sure the game is going the way of nullsec just yet, at least in a manner that is handing them the game on a silver platter.

Siphons, MDs, bubble-resistant inties, warp speed changes, and the SoE ships - these things do not a safer and quieter nullsec make.

I would even admit that in spite of the CSMs and the blue bloc, CCP is giving players more tools to use in and against nullsec and the way it's put together.

Hence why the cries about "CCP is all for Nullsec! Nullsec CSMs are going to give the game to nullsec!" arguments do not stand on solid ground. The PoCos being turned over to "cartel" ownership and the aspect of conquerable stations might make it look like the game is being served up to the cartels, but I think it's a matter of tricking nullsec into investment in highsec while making the highsec crowd more motivated to move out.

Things are not going to be boring. That's for sure.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#399 - 2013-12-03 17:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
S'No Flake wrote:


I know a lot of people can make a lot of ISK from incursions.
When RnK deployed in outer ring for the goons/test war, i did the same, went to incursions and i can tell you for sure WTM can't get those numbers.
Also, i'm pretty sure most of the incursion communities are not going close to the ISK ISN it's making so using extreme cases like 150mil ISK/h is not really a good concept.


Non-sense, i made that last night flying with TVP.
Quote:

Personally i can make more ISK from lvl3 security in outer ring compared with lvl4 in HS.
And i don't even talk about how much you can make doing boring lvl4 mining in outer ring compared with mining missions in HS :)

Yes. It's more dangerous in null but it pays better...
My experience it's with NPC null. ... and i'm pretty sure pirate NPC null it's even better.
Compare that with sov 0.0 where security it's 5 times better ... and goons are still crying in forums.




Your problem is that you can't overcome your prejudice against the Goons to see straight. Prejudice makes one blind.

There is isk to be made in null, I know, i've made it, i prefer null PVE it any other place's PVE. I don't see the need for any more rewards in null, hell play your cards right put in the effort and null can make you space rich.

But it's just way easier to do in high sec. I plex 4 accounts with isk left over in 2 weekends of Incursion running unless someone gets mad and pops the moms, at which point it's back to the incredibly ridiculous lvl 4 high sec mission running isk (and beleive me, the Sisters/Thukker agents aren't the only ones spewing out crazy LP store items....). Leave aside the gold mine known as COSMOS farming (head in a jar, anyone?)

It shouldn't be that way. I (nor anyone else) should not be able to maintain my space-lavish lifestyle by using ONE character doing high sec combat PVE (missions, incursions, exploration) an hour or so per day. I shold have no choice but to venture into low sec or beyond to maintain 4 accounts with my limited plaiyng time. But all I have to do is 3 HQ sites per day (I call it my "daily" lol) in my spare time to blam, 3 bil a month, accounts paid for and pocket change secured.

(i don't actually make 3 bil a month, I make way more, with the kids growing up and gone on the weekends and the wife at work, Sunday is BFI (Beer, Football and Incursions) Day) .

The trade off for increased safety and comfort in a game like this should be lower rewards, and on paper those rewards "look" lower till you take into account "reality" factors like how people can disrupt you easily in null sec but have a much tougher time doing the same thing in high sec. It's just way too easy now.

Of course, in fine EVE tradition, I'm going to strip mine high sec for all the rewards I can till someone at CCP wakes up and stops this, but just because one benefits from something doesn't mean they should ignore that something's wrongness.
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#400 - 2013-12-03 17:23:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


Perhaps because you can just camp gates and cargo scan people until you see one worth suicide ganking, then do it up?

People do this all the time. I was talking to a goon the other day who was bragging to me about how they PLEX fairly easily by just suicide ganking in highsec.

Go into the map and filter by "ships destroyed in the last hour" and glance at where those ship kills are.

Now go over to the deep portions of nullsec. Strangely there are almost no ship kills! Funny how that is.


i'm sure someone could post a link to more recent info, but here's a good starter for you. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/3235


Apple vs Apples... How many of those 0.0 PvP kills are outside of wars / battles for timers.
Not that 0.0 is not dangerous... it is ...
And some people like that other way nobody will be in 0.0 and everyone will be in HS.