These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

POCO gagging

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#101 - 2013-12-03 13:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Stahlregen wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
You keep bringing up wardec mechanics as if it's a barrier preventing you from attacking goon assets but are ignoring the fact that 99.9% of goon infrastructure is located in 0.0 space, space where wardecs mean absolutely nothing. It's obvious you're just being willfully obtuse and argumentative for the sake of argument.

I present this comment made by you to support this.

Quote:
Hate Goons, nah, in fact I respect what they have done, especially their leadership, however early on I decided that I would oppose them for fun


But yes, please continue to tell us how Grr Goons is totally not a valid and perfectly acceptable reply to the sort of rambling, nonsensical and downright trollish posts like your own.


The subject we are talking about is HISEC POCO's which are in hisec would you believe, which is what we are talking about attacking and you have to use a WARDEC to be able to attack them, funny that, wake up...keep up, engage brain, get your head out of your butt...


Then wardec us already! Holy crap man, I and other people have already told you what you can do, they've offered alternatives but all you can say to this is; "I don't like what people are doing! I'm also not going to even try to stop them because I can't be bothered to make the same effort the people I want to stop made in the first place! Please! Why won't somebody do it for me??"

Hahhaa grow up, you ******* child.


I hate to upset you, but the Goons have not taken any of the POCO's I currently use, and so far only one corp which has taken them has set stupid tax rates. So I have no reason to dec you over POCO's and even if you had, for 500m its not cost efficient to do so, so I will have to disappoint you, in any case Goons are easy enough to kill in 0.0. But enjoy your war dec immunity...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#102 - 2013-12-03 13:09:07 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Bah, all these people crying and whining about larger, more established groups having benefits over entitled solo players. My (small, rag-tag) corp owns a few POCOs (most in lowsec, some in hisec) and it we grinded them all ourselves, working through reinforcement timers and dodging hostilities from our public enemies. We bled for those things with our ships, we deserve the ISK we gain from them as long as we may still keep them. We proved a small but commited group can take them down with proper coordination and some effort. I once thought POCO ownership to be something for the big guys. I proved myself wrong, and I am glad I did. People tend to overestimate the effort required to kill a POCO or come up with the funds for a wardec.


Entitled, LMAO at that, the least entitled players in the game are the solo players, keep kidding yourself, we are talking about the fact that very large entities can hide behind very expensive war dec fees, and while I could affect RvB using the deplete strategy, as they are actually doing this for income, I cannot see any efficient way to impact the Goons if they are just in it for griefing.

Good for you that you that you got off your butt and took them and I hope you keep them, and if you took one of those POCO's from the Goons or RvB then your comment would be relevent, but I bet you did not so your sneer has no basis in fact, take one of them from the Goons and then I will give you respect, at this point your post was full of epeen!!!


It's sad you would only respect us if we took them from Goons. To bad for you, Goons don't have assets in the region where we live. Insidious Empire did, and we took them. The Initiative did, and we took them. I hope that carries enough weight to gain your approval. I did mention reinforcement timers, I admit these were mainly lowsec POCO's for which no dec is needed. I agree wardec costs are a point of concern. However, hisec's risk-free isk-generating environment should provide the ISK needed for decs, just as lowsec provides the risk to replace the many, many ships we tend to lose! Lol

Entitlement is everywhere, not just in solo players, but remember this thread started with a 3-man corp CEO complaining him and his alts couldn't get into the big-boys game. And I'm telling you the game is for little boys too, just not for single individuals. Thinking this is bad game design is indeed entitlement.

In order to become a player in the CO game you need a couple of things, but where people often see an insurmountable barrier that keeps them from even trying, I can tell from experience those barriers are mainly mental. A CO gantry and it's upgrade items. A couple of bash ships. And some ISK if you want to target a hisec group. Sure, people like me are not going to down Goons or RvB POCO's just to make a point, but once you have a couple of POCO's providing income your corp can decide to keep the momentum going, and invest the new income stream into downing those belonging to larger groups.

The glass ceiling you mentioned isn't there.


Actually I was using the Goons and RvB as an example, but as you have taken them from Insidious Empire and the Initiative then you have my respect. In my opinion for what it is worth, you have the right to speak as you did then and I apologise for my remarks.

The bad game design is the making the hisec POCO's subject to war decs when certain entities have war dec costs that are not possible for many of the people that use them, I do not understand why people cannot see that as an issue.

I was also pointing out a mechanism for the OP to get back at those that took the POCO's he was using as long as they were actually using them to generate ISK, use depletion as a weapon, if they are using them to stuff hisec then he is stuffed.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#103 - 2013-12-03 13:10:47 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
In my opinion for what it is worth, you have the right to speak .


I actually spat my coffee across the room at that

WELL PLAYED WELL PLAYED
10/10

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-12-03 13:10:53 UTC
Professor Clio wrote:



Low sec and 0.0 is full of bad men who want to kill you, don't you know that? Lol


so is hi-sec
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#105 - 2013-12-03 13:17:23 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
1) "What a strange reply, is that relevent in anyway to what I said, obviously you are confused." It is completely relevant to what you said. Otherwise, please, enlighten us all in how CONCORD sets the price of a war dec.

2) " Are you trying tosuggest I am saying what you just tried to say here, whatever it is, well no" En Anglais, sil vous plait

3)" The Goons are sheltered by their war dec costs, simple fact, and as for their null sec assets we are talking about hisec POCO's, I want to take a POCO, so I go and SBU VFK, won't work will it?" I thought you didnt want POCOs, I thought you were a syphon-sucker and moon goo drinker? Plenty of tasty Grroon Mrrroons out there.

4)" He was making out he was all tough, and if he took it from Interbus well I guess I won't be shaking in my shoes..." And again what difference does that make to anything? Who TF cares? Apart from you?

5) It was your question! And Im telling you your answer is wrong. Care to try again?

6) " I have been doing hisec PI, that is why I have an issue with this, , with your alliance I have leverage, againstthe Goons I don't think I have, can't you get your head around that?" Hmm you said you werent. Try to keep your lies consistant and perhaps you can actually LRN2debate. Also, what leverage is this you speak of?

" That is what your post seemed to be heading towards" Nope. Never even crossed my mind. I dont assume to guess what Grroon strategy is. Im not Mittens lovechild. Or am I...?

"Anyway having an exchange with you is like head butting a wall or trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result, I have enjoyed ascertaining the level of your posting, but at this point I have better things to do, well I will reply to this Goon and then I better get to it, have fun...." I accept your surrender.



Your reading and comprehension skills are rather poor, the leverage one has against RvB is depletion, lets say I was in a system where you had taken POCO's and set a 30% tax rate, I would get together with like minded people and just deplete the planets of all the most valuable resources. Of course this does not work for factory planets, but it would impact your income stream. I repeat as you (RvB) are doing this for income first and foremost then it has an impact, however in terms of the Goons where the 'grief hisec' attitude may be more important then such action has limited or no affects. Surely you can get that?

As for the rest of your arguments they are irrelvent troll chaff...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#106 - 2013-12-03 13:20:00 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
In my opinion for what it is worth, you have the right to speak .


I actually spat my coffee across the room at that

WELL PLAYED WELL PLAYED
10/10


The full sentence

"Actually I was using the Goons and RvB as an example, but as you have taken them from Insidious Empire and the Initiative then you have my respect. In my opinion for what it is worth, you have the right to speak as you did then and I apologise for my remarks."

Nice out of context try...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#107 - 2013-12-03 13:23:10 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


As for the rest of your arguments they are irrelvent troll chaff...



THERE we go

The perennial "I disagree so you must be a troll" statement

Sorry I havent earned YOUR RIGHT to speak


GTFO and GROW TF UP

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-12-03 13:23:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

2) They may be gathering income, but one of their often stated goals is to grief hisec


I think we've done more to "grief highsec" with these pocos by leaving them at a reasonable tax rate and thus setting highsec pilots at each other's throats arguing for and against us than we possibly could have by setting a higher tax rate. P

I actually saw this in local in Perimeter the other night.

[05:40:40] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
[05:44:40] GothicMegan > hey goons you going to remove the ripping of bastards poco on planet 6 or do i need to move my production to another planet
[05:45:05] Warr Akini > That is the plan.
[05:45:32] GothicMegan > brilliant, that is what i was hopin for


That's right - someone actually ASKING us to take more pocos.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#109 - 2013-12-03 13:30:15 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

2) They may be gathering income, but one of their often stated goals is to grief hisec


I think we've done more to "grief highsec" with these pocos by leaving them at a reasonable tax rate and thus setting highsec pilots at each other's throats arguing for and against us than we possibly could have by setting a higher tax rate. P

I actually saw this in local in Perimeter the other night.

[05:40:40] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
[05:44:40] GothicMegan > hey goons you going to remove the ripping of bastards poco on planet 6 or do i need to move my production to another planet
[05:45:05] Warr Akini > That is the plan.
[05:45:32] GothicMegan > brilliant, that is what i was hopin for


That's right - someone actually ASKING us to take more pocos.


That is funny, that is why I like your leadership, well if you take POCO's and have a reasonable tax rate then I have no reason to complain, by the way, my comments were never Grrr Goons, I find the war dec issue a bit annoying in terms of CCP not thinking about this, because its just not cost affective.. Anyway that made me laugh, thanks for that...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#110 - 2013-12-03 13:41:55 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

2) They may be gathering income, but one of their often stated goals is to grief hisec


I think we've done more to "grief highsec" with these pocos by leaving them at a reasonable tax rate and thus setting highsec pilots at each other's throats arguing for and against us than we possibly could have by setting a higher tax rate. P

I actually saw this in local in Perimeter the other night.

[05:40:40] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
[05:44:40] GothicMegan > hey goons you going to remove the ripping of bastards poco on planet 6 or do i need to move my production to another planet
[05:45:05] Warr Akini > That is the plan.
[05:45:32] GothicMegan > brilliant, that is what i was hopin for


That's right - someone actually ASKING us to take more pocos.


That is funny, that is why I like your leadership, well if you take POCO's and have a reasonable tax rate then I have no reason to complain, by the way, my comments were never Grrr Goons, I find the war dec issue a bit annoying in terms of CCP not thinking about this, because its just not cost affective.. Anyway that made me laugh, thanks for that...



Shocked

Periods, bro. Use them!

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#111 - 2013-12-03 14:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Dracvlad wrote:
The bad game design is the making the hisec POCO's subject to war decs when certain entities have war dec costs that are not possible for many of the people that use them, I do not understand why people cannot see that as an issue.


Because the people that use them do not need to be the exact same people that own them. They need to have a relationship with each other (standings). If you have used them and are in contact with groups that own them, pay attention to how that group operates. At some point you might think shooting POCOs is more fun then using them. Maybe you will change corps, or merely train for an Attack BC to help out your friends on a bash. My point: POCO usage and POCO ownership are two seperate games, they do not need to tie in with each other all that much.

The high cost of wardecs is a problem for certain demographs, such is entirely true. But, there are also hisec griefer corps that wardec large null groups just to have soft targets. Thus, the costs are not that insurmountable for hisec groups. The returns are simply far off and uncertain. That breeds defeatism in risk-averse players with little creativity, and leads to misunderstood posts like the OP.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2013-12-03 14:42:20 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
... 500m its not cost efficient to do so...
This is what I see, if the goal was to be a conflict driver...500M ISK... is a fairly high barrier.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2013-12-03 14:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
...The high cost of wardecs is a problem for certain demographs, such is entirely true. But, there are also hisec griefer corps that wardec large null groups just to have soft targets. Thus, the costs are not that insurmountable for hisec groups. The returns are simply far off and uncertain. That breeds defeatism in risk-averse players with little creativity, and leads to misunderstood posts like the OP.
Question: why do you assume highsec Corps are the target for this change?

Alliances/Corps setting up POCO's that actually benefit most of the those doing Highsec PI is not detrimental. Overall, this change has been to the advantage of those doing PI in highsec, but I doubt that was CCPs goal.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#114 - 2013-12-03 14:49:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
mynnna wrote:
Periods, bro. Use them!


Why? it was meant as a broken sentence with plenty of halts in it, but anyway I still appreciate the first answer!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#115 - 2013-12-03 14:53:07 UTC
Someone had mentioned that exporting your PI did not have to be done through a POCO, that you could launch it into your cargo. Was that incorrect or partially incorrect?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-12-03 14:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Joia Crenca wrote:
Someone had mentioned that exporting your PI did not have to be done through a POCO, that you could launch it into your cargo. Was that incorrect or partially incorrect?

Command Center

The first building you must construct, deployed from orbit (or technically anywhere undocked in the system). Only a basic command center can be bought from the market. Command centers can be upgraded after built in ranges from basic to elite, providing more CPU and Powergrid per level. Can store a small amount of material and offers a simple rocket launch mechanism by which you can ship said materials to orbit.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Planetary_Interaction




You can use the rocket icon (or double click the structure) to prepare a launch, picking items to include, up to the total capacity of the command center (500m3). The cost of exporting commodities from the Command Center is 50% greater than via a Launchpad, and it cannot support the import of items.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#117 - 2013-12-03 15:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Question: why do you assume highsec Corps are the target for this change?


I merely wished to illustrate the cost of wardecs is high, but not into such extremes it would be impossible for hisec based groups to own CO's. I never implied player ownership was detrimental (I was always in favour of this change) or that highsec groups were a target in a negative sense. The matter I wished to adress was that hisec groups are more capable then they might think when it comes to financing POCO bashes. Sorry if I was unclear!
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#118 - 2013-12-03 16:46:41 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


As for the rest of your arguments they are irrelvent troll chaff...



THERE we go

The perennial "I disagree so you must be a troll" statement

Sorry I havent earned YOUR RIGHT to speak


GTFO and GROW TF UP


Temper temper Big smileShockedRoll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#119 - 2013-12-03 17:42:09 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

2) They may be gathering income, but one of their often stated goals is to grief hisec


I think we've done more to "grief highsec" with these pocos by leaving them at a reasonable tax rate and thus setting highsec pilots at each other's throats arguing for and against us than we possibly could have by setting a higher tax rate. P

I actually saw this in local in Perimeter the other night.

[05:40:40] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Perimeter
[05:44:40] GothicMegan > hey goons you going to remove the ripping of bastards poco on planet 6 or do i need to move my production to another planet
[05:45:05] Warr Akini > That is the plan.
[05:45:32] GothicMegan > brilliant, that is what i was hopin for


That's right - someone actually ASKING us to take more pocos.


That is funny, that is why I like your leadership, well if you take POCO's and have a reasonable tax rate then I have no reason to complain, by the way, my comments were never Grrr Goons, I find the war dec issue a bit annoying in terms of CCP not thinking about this, because its just not cost affective.. Anyway that made me laugh, thanks for that...



Shocked

Periods, bro. Use them!


The term you were looking for is full stop isn't it? The word you used refers to something entirely different.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#120 - 2013-12-03 17:46:27 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
...The high cost of wardecs is a problem for certain demographs, such is entirely true. But, there are also hisec griefer corps that wardec large null groups just to have soft targets. Thus, the costs are not that insurmountable for hisec groups. The returns are simply far off and uncertain. That breeds defeatism in risk-averse players with little creativity, and leads to misunderstood posts like the OP.
Question: why do you assume highsec Corps are the target for this change?

Alliances/Corps setting up POCO's that actually benefit most of the those doing Highsec PI is not detrimental. Overall, this change has been to the advantage of those doing PI in highsec, but I doubt that was CCPs goal.


It depends on your area. Some low and null-sec entities that have started setting up POCO en masse in high sec are charging 21% or more. The Interbus high sec CO charge 17% so I suppose these guys don't want anyone to use their POCO. Seems like a waste of ISK and P4 to me.