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Battleships???
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Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2013-12-03 11:36:07 UTC
so on a side note, Battleships?? are they any good? Lol
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#202 - 2013-12-03 12:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Bel Tika wrote:
so on a side note, Battleships?? are they any good? Lol


Yes, but only if you know what you are doing.

IZ for example took a badly fitted mega and got caught by a good sized gang and died in a fire due to the lack of experience. The fit looked like an old one from before the teircide that was shoehorned onto the new look mega.
Keno Skir
#203 - 2013-12-03 12:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Mike Whiite wrote:
Why is my shuttle able to bump a battles ship out of alignment, and if it is why doesn't it get a scratch?

Why can my frigate shut down the warp core of a battleship with 5 times the core capacity?

Why does the webbing frigate slow down the Battleships instead of dragging the Frigate along?


1. If you bumped the shuttle with the bs at 1000m/s it would send the shuttle hurtling away at 1000m/s (ish), if you hit stationary bs with 1000m/s shuttle it would turn a bit and not really move very far. Due to mass... And your ship doesn't take collision damage because it would be game breaking and stupid, imagine the carnage on jita undock.

2. Warp core capacity is not a thing. A scrambler makes the targets warp core not work, unless it has stabs, whatever the size. Makes sense.

3. Because webs effect the target vessel. It isn't a lassoo cowboy.

Any more q's?

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2013-12-03 12:10:53 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"Support ships" is a concept IZ just can't quite grasp.

Not true I have my ISBoxer Stealth Bomber wing almost fully trained up now.


Weren't you just putting someone down for using a squad instead of going solo..? But you're ISBoxing bombers?

Ye mate.

EDIT : The whole game almost, uses Megathrons for fleet fights atm. If it was better to use Prots then that's what would be in service. Your argument has been repeatedly smashed and you have nothing to back it up aside from conjecture and bluffing.

"that massive lossmail on my killboard? i was winning that til their friends showed up.. so there..."

You're posting like an idiot lol. They use Megathrons because they're disposable, they have range over the T3 and they're insurable and don't cost skill points. Its not because they're better or even on par with T3's in overall usefulness.

I posted the stats on both ships, those stats are not debatable. Overall the T3 smashes the Megathron in terms of adaptibility, damage application, tank, cap, mobility, sig, tracking... literally everything.

You'd have to be a complete idiot not to see that.

As for the massive loss lol, its a 180 million isk insured ship. I lost more suiciding a Rohk in Jita the same day since suiciding doesn't give insurance payout. If you think 180m is a massive loss you're playing in the kiddie pool.

Also I don't think they're his friends since they're on the same killmail of him that I'm on.

@ Baltec, how would slightly increasing mobility and lock time as well as ability to hold (but not field more drones) cause everyone to use Battleships?

They would still suffer from tracking and damage application against smaller faster targets. They would just not be completely useless in gangs and roams. And I'm not talking about your 200 man gangs, you could fly friggin 200 man rifter gangs and kill anything you come across. Balance goes out the window when you're fielding that many people.

@ Tauranon,

Where did you find in my post that I said that battleships should be able to hit (apply damage) as well as battle-cruisers. I said they "still wouldn't be able to" not that they should be able to.



CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#205 - 2013-12-03 12:13:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
so on a side note, Battleships?? are they any good? Lol


Yes, but only if you know what you are doing.

You wouldn't really know. You're playstyle seems to be get as many people as you can into a blob and kill other people with that blob.

If you want to actually get a feel for a ship, you need to actually try fighting with it. Its like some gronk and his mates beating up a guy on the street and thinking they're hardcore.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Keno Skir
#206 - 2013-12-03 12:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Infinity Ziona wrote:
They use Megathrons because they're disposable, they have range over the T3 and they're insurable and don't cost skill points. Its not because they're better or even on par with T3's in overall usefulness.

I posted the stats on both ships, those stats are not debatable. Overall the T3 smashes the Megathron in terms of adaptibility, damage application, tank, cap, mobility, sig, tracking... literally everything. (except all the things you just mentioned..)

You'd have to be a complete idiot not to see that.


Your massive contradiction kinda answers for me, but what the hell.

All the points you mentioned about the mega are why it is a better ship to use, and the areas in which the prot are better are CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE PEOPLE USE THEM OVER MEGATHRONS.

Also, having range over a t3 is part of damage application...

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2013-12-03 12:22:23 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
They use Megathrons because they're disposable, they have range over the T3 and they're insurable and don't cost skill points. Its not because they're better or even on par with T3's in overall usefulness.

I posted the stats on both ships, those stats are not debatable. Overall the T3 smashes the Megathron in terms of adaptibility, damage application, tank, cap, mobility, sig, tracking... literally everything. (except all the things you just mentioned..)

You'd have to be a complete idiot not to see that.


Your massive contradiction kinda answers for me, but what the hell.

All the points you mentioned about the mega are why it is a better ship to use, and the areas in which the prot are better are CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE PEOPLE USE THEM OVER MEGATHRONS.

Also, having range over a t3 is part of damage application...

Jesus. Like teaching babies to walk...

Disposable, insurable, don't lose skill points are not ship attributes ffs. They're player preferences.

The only thing that is a ship attribute is the range.

Get it through your head, when you're comparing ships capabilities you don't compare non mechanical non functional things. You compare statistics.

"The USS Nimitz must be a terrible ship, I mean its so much more expensive than a missile frigate. Most countries in the world prefer to use missile frigates therefore the USS Nimitz is a poor performer in comparison" - complete horse **** right? Yes.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#208 - 2013-12-03 12:23:01 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
so on a side note, Battleships?? are they any good? Lol


Yes, but only if you know what you are doing.

You wouldn't really know. You're playstyle seems to be get as many people as you can into a blob and kill other people with that blob.

If you want to actually get a feel for a ship, you need to actually try fighting with it. Its like some gronk and his mates beating up a guy on the street and thinking they're hardcore.


Before I was in BATs I was terrising CFC space in mega flying with 5 to 10 man gangs. I still fly in small gangs but hey, lets just ignore the guy who has flown mega in every situation going for over 3 years and just take your one badly fitted mega loss.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2013-12-03 12:28:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
so on a side note, Battleships?? are they any good? Lol


Yes, but only if you know what you are doing.

You wouldn't really know. You're playstyle seems to be get as many people as you can into a blob and kill other people with that blob.

If you want to actually get a feel for a ship, you need to actually try fighting with it. Its like some gronk and his mates beating up a guy on the street and thinking they're hardcore.


Before I was in BATs I was terrising CFC space in mega flying with 5 to 10 man gangs. I still fly in small gangs but hey, lets just ignore the guy who has flown mega in every situation going for over 3 years and just take your one badly fitted mega loss.

Badly fitted my ass. At least I put prop mods on it. I've seen you're terrible double plated no prop mod rail mega lol. Just a lame floating sentry gun for F1 games.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#210 - 2013-12-03 12:32:44 UTC
I bought some jeans from the NEX Store and they

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Badly fitted my ass.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2013-12-03 12:35:51 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
I bought some jeans from the NEX Store and they

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Badly fitted my ass.


Take them off your head, your ass is down south... confusing I know.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#212 - 2013-12-03 12:37:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
so on a side note, Battleships?? are they any good? Lol


Yes, but only if you know what you are doing.

You wouldn't really know. You're playstyle seems to be get as many people as you can into a blob and kill other people with that blob.

If you want to actually get a feel for a ship, you need to actually try fighting with it. Its like some gronk and his mates beating up a guy on the street and thinking they're hardcore.


Before I was in BATs I was terrising CFC space in mega flying with 5 to 10 man gangs. I still fly in small gangs but hey, lets just ignore the guy who has flown mega in every situation going for over 3 years and just take your one badly fitted mega loss.

Badly fitted my ass. At least I put prop mods on it. I've seen you're terrible double plated no prop mod rail mega lol. Just a lame floating sentry gun for F1 games.


Please post this no prop mod mega as I do not recall losing one.. and yes, your mega was a bad fit.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#213 - 2013-12-03 12:39:24 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
I bought some jeans from the NEX Store and they

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Badly fitted my ass.


Take them off your head, your ass is down south... confusing I know.


Geez take a rad pill and step OFF sista

Whats all up in YOUR grill

Yo Back up Back up and give a sista room

Work the body work work the body

Slow down girl you're 'bout to hurt somebody

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2013-12-03 12:56:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Please post this no prop mod mega as I do not recall losing one.. and yes, your mega was a bad fit.

Baltec, just because you sit in a blob in a mega doesn't make you a good mega pilot. You actually have to use the mega. F1'ing doesn't count. Warp in's don't count. Remote repping doesn't count.

Getting in a Mega and taking it out by yourself, is how you learn what it can do. I'll tell you what, take one out this weekend by yourself, I'll even buy it for you with fittings and contract it over to you, get a few kills in it, and I'll start to listen to what you have to say about it, otherwise you're just another pleb that knows nothing about his ship.

I doubt you will take me up on my offer though because you're inexperienced and you'll die in the first fight you get.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#215 - 2013-12-03 13:03:49 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Please post this no prop mod mega as I do not recall losing one.. and yes, your mega was a bad fit.

Baltec, just because you sit in a blob in a mega doesn't make you a good mega pilot. You actually have to use the mega. F1'ing doesn't count. Warp in's don't count. Remote repping doesn't count.

Getting in a Mega and taking it out by yourself, is how you learn what it can do. I'll tell you what, take one out this weekend by yourself, I'll even buy it for you with fittings and contract it over to you, get a few kills in it, and I'll start to listen to what you have to say about it, otherwise you're just another pleb that knows nothing about his ship.

I doubt you will take me up on my offer though because you're inexperienced and you'll die in the first fight you get.


I notice a distinct lack of posting that killmail he asked you for. You know, the one that proves you aren't just spouting off like always?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#216 - 2013-12-03 13:07:40 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Please post this no prop mod mega as I do not recall losing one.. and yes, your mega was a bad fit.

Baltec, just because you sit in a blob in a mega doesn't make you a good mega pilot. You actually have to use the mega. F1'ing doesn't count. Warp in's don't count. Remote repping doesn't count.

Getting in a Mega and taking it out by yourself, is how you learn what it can do. I'll tell you what, take one out this weekend by yourself, I'll even buy it for you with fittings and contract it over to you, get a few kills in it, and I'll start to listen to what you have to say about it, otherwise you're just another pleb that knows nothing about his ship.

I doubt you will take me up on my offer though because you're inexperienced and you'll die in the first fight you get.


Get me a kronos.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#217 - 2013-12-03 13:16:50 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
Why is my shuttle able to bump a battles ship out of alignment, and if it is why doesn't it get a scratch?

Why can my frigate shut down the warp core of a battleship with 5 times the core capacity?

Why does the webbing frigate slow down the Battleships instead of dragging the Frigate along?


1. If you bumped the shuttle with the bs at 1000m/s it would send the shuttle hurtling away at 1000m/s (ish), if you hit stationary bs with 1000m/s shuttle it would turn a bit and not really move very far. Due to mass... And your ship doesn't take collision damage because it would be game breaking and stupid, imagine the carnage on jita undock.

2. Warp core capacity is not a thing. A scrambler makes the targets warp core not work, unless it has stabs, whatever the size. Makes sense.

3. Because webs effect the target vessel. It isn't a lassoo cowboy.

Any more q's?


1) you can bump a BS out of alignment with a shuttle, wich is absolute nonsence, a bullet smashes on a steal plat leaving a scratch where the bullet turns in an unrecognisable goo of lead/steal. ( as for the Jita station argument, I can't shoot undocking ships either, see problem sovled with something a simple as a timer) although in my opinion it should be done, by more undock gates and more regulated undocking procedure.

2) even if that would be true, you should consider that larger ships would have more than one warp core, not unlike modernday nucliar carriers have more than one reactor and scrambling isn't area of effect weapon.

3) if that would be true you won't be able to out run a web, nor would it cost energy to maintain it. and it would work a lot more like EMC. or you would need to ire a web bubble, but that isn't the case.


more importantly, no matter how it works now, if you use mass as more than just a limitation, you can keep it intresting to use a wider variaty of ships.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#218 - 2013-12-03 14:28:29 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I don't see what the 'resistance' to battleships having some ability to solo is about?


So you are unable to comprehend why taking something that fits in the right way with the rest of the ships in the game and turning it into something that suits your personal preferences is a bad idea?

What else is new lol?

Quote:

If you think about EVE there are really no such thing as battleships, battlecruisers, etc etc. There are only dots in space that have the ability to do things, like fire 8 blasters or get into warp in less then 3 secs.

Battleships are just another dot. If you think about it they're quite a lot less dangerous than some of the other ships out there. In terms of survivability, you have much more chance of surviving an attack in a cruiser, from a battleship than you do from a HAC.

In terms of defeating an opponent, you have much more chance of catching and killing the same cruiser in another cruiser, than you do in trying to catch that cruiser in a battleship.

In terms of damage application, unless you fit for specific targets, which gimps your ability vs other targets, you have much more chance of applying all your damage in a battlecruiser than you do in a battleship.

I've attacked battleships in T3's with full shields and not hit armor before they popped, and I was armor tanked, vs battleships. There are a few exceptions, but they're more specialized ships, such as nuet domis, but that's only because they can field non battleship weapons and have a full rack of highs for utility.

Adjusting mobility so they're able to keep up with a fleet, adjusting lock times so they're not fitting 2 sebos to get 30mm more lock times than an un-sebo'ed BC, adding extra drone bay space would not make them OP, they'd would still have all the negative qualities that allow smaller ships to kill them.


EVe online already allows you to fit things to ships to make them do other things. The fact that you don't want to make the trade offs needed to do that doesn't create some need on ccp's part to change things. If you want a ship that does what a battlecruiser does, fly a battlecruiser.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#219 - 2013-12-04 09:27:34 UTC
I am pretty sure anybody who puts 3 plates on a BS for any type of gang is basically awful.

Active Hardeners, people should learn to use them.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2013-12-04 10:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I don't see what the 'resistance' to battleships having some ability to solo is about?


So you are unable to comprehend why taking something that fits in the right way with the rest of the ships in the game and turning it into something that suits your personal preferences is a bad idea?

What else is new lol?

Quote:

If you think about EVE there are really no such thing as battleships, battlecruisers, etc etc. There are only dots in space that have the ability to do things, like fire 8 blasters or get into warp in less then 3 secs.

Battleships are just another dot. If you think about it they're quite a lot less dangerous than some of the other ships out there. In terms of survivability, you have much more chance of surviving an attack in a cruiser, from a battleship than you do from a HAC.

In terms of defeating an opponent, you have much more chance of catching and killing the same cruiser in another cruiser, than you do in trying to catch that cruiser in a battleship.

In terms of damage application, unless you fit for specific targets, which gimps your ability vs other targets, you have much more chance of applying all your damage in a battlecruiser than you do in a battleship.

I've attacked battleships in T3's with full shields and not hit armor before they popped, and I was armor tanked, vs battleships. There are a few exceptions, but they're more specialized ships, such as nuet domis, but that's only because they can field non battleship weapons and have a full rack of highs for utility.

Adjusting mobility so they're able to keep up with a fleet, adjusting lock times so they're not fitting 2 sebos to get 30mm more lock times than an un-sebo'ed BC, adding extra drone bay space would not make them OP, they'd would still have all the negative qualities that allow smaller ships to kill them.


EVe online already allows you to fit things to ships to make them do other things. The fact that you don't want to make the trade offs needed to do that doesn't create some need on ccp's part to change things. If you want a ship that does what a battlecruiser does, fly a battlecruiser.

You really don't have a clue do you :) As I said a megathron with 2 sebo with scripts only gets 30mm more scan res than an unseboed BC.

A bc with one sebo with script gets better scan res than a cruiser.

Since a mega needs a prop mod and a scram and web to be effective as a blaster boat fitting 3 sebos to get the same scan as a single sebo bc is a little bit much to ask. It only has 4 mids.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)