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POCO gagging

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#81 - 2013-12-03 10:25:11 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Bah, all these people crying and whining about larger, more established groups having benefits over entitled solo players. My (small, rag-tag) corp owns a few POCOs (most in lowsec, some in hisec) and it we grinded them all ourselves, working through reinforcement timers and dodging hostilities from our public enemies. We bled for those things with our ships, we deserve the ISK we gain from them as long as we may still keep them. We proved a small but commited group can take them down with proper coordination and some effort. I once thought POCO ownership to be something for the big guys. I proved myself wrong, and I am glad I did. People tend to overestimate the effort required to kill a POCO or come up with the funds for a wardec.


Entitled, LMAO at that, the least entitled players in the game are the solo players, keep kidding yourself, we are talking about the fact that very large entities can hide behind very expensive war dec fees, and while I could affect RvB using the deplete strategy, as they are actually doing this for income, I cannot see any efficient way to impact the Goons if they are just in it for griefing.

Good for you that you that you got off your butt and took them and I hope you keep them, and if you took one of those POCO's from the Goons or RvB then your comment would be relevent, but I bet you did not so your sneer has no basis in fact, take one of them from the Goons and then I will give you respect, at this point your post was full of epeen!!!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#82 - 2013-12-03 10:34:20 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
What option does the smaller corp or single guy have.


Evolve or die

Cmon player, THINK IT THROUGH!!!!


I just did, in terms of RvB you want the income from POCO's so the deplete strategy works, you lose ISK, simple as.

However the Goons may well just go for grief so it does not work, they have immunity, I can hardly evolve through that glass ceiling can I, you can throw a Eve buzz word at me all you want, but simply put under the current mechanisms there is no way to resist against the Goons if they are only interested in using the POCO's for griefing hisec players and that is my issue, which is why I suggested that adjustment to the war dec cost. Lets take evolution and call this the Panda affect, lol


Evolving isnt about pushing through the ceiling

Its about thinking AROUND it

But your tack has now changed from "I want to do this but cant" to "Grr Goons"

Sorry that they dont like playing the game your way

But yes, you are the panda in your example.

You are sticking to one income stream and refusing to diverge

You will become extinct if you dont evolve out of it


Lets repeat as your seem to not get it, I can affect your alliance by depleting your planets, simple as, as your driver is profit.

But your simplistic and babyish Grrrr Goons comment does not hide the fact that apart from paying a massive war dec cost there is no way to impact effectively any large entity who takes POCO's with the intention to grief.

You can blather buzz words all youy want, its laughable, in fact I am sitting rather pretty, I have a huge stock of PI material, and am currently depleting some idiots planet who applied a 30% tax with multiple toons, fun fun fun, and you tell me I should evolve, lol.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#83 - 2013-12-03 10:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
repeat post below, sorry

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#84 - 2013-12-03 10:36:38 UTC
Any numbers on how PI production has changed in highsec? And how much moved to other sec?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#85 - 2013-12-03 10:38:25 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Lets repeat as your seem to not get it, I can affect your alliance by depleting your planets, simple as, as your driver is profit.

But your simplistic and babyish Grrrr Goons comment does not hide the fact that apart from paying a massive war dec cost there is no way to impact effectively any large entity who takes POCO's with the intention to grief.

You can blather buzz words all youy want, its laughable


Why so angry?

Why do you need to get at the Grroons so much?

Why do you hate them?

I dont know what you mean by "buzz words".

if youd like me to rephrase my statements to be acceptable to you, please let me know what words you are offended by.

Dracvlad wrote:
I am sitting rather pretty, I have a huge stock of PI material, and am currently depleting some idiots planet who applied a 30% tax with multiple toons, fun fun fun, and you tell me I should evolve, lol.


So why are you upset again? What is your point?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#86 - 2013-12-03 10:39:13 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
we are talking about the fact that very large entities can hide behind very expensive war dec fees, and while I could affect RvB using the deplete strategy, as they are actually doing this for income, I cannot see any efficient way to impact the Goons if they are just in it for griefing.


Srs qustns.
1) Why shouldnt they have protection if they can afford it?

2) How do you know that Grroons are griefing and not incoming?

3) Why shouldnt Grroons be allowed to protract an economic war strategy

Dracvlad wrote:
Good for you that you that you got off your butt and took them and I hope you keep them, and if you took one of those POCO's from the Goons or RvB then your comment would be relevent, but I bet you did not so your sneer has no basis in fact, take one of them from the Goons and then I will give you respect, at this point your post was full of epeen!!!


Mre Srs Qstns
1) Why is it important who its taken from? Do you think Grroons care?

2) Is respect worth isk these days?

3) Would you like to buy a moon?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#87 - 2013-12-03 10:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
we are talking about the fact that very large entities can hide behind very expensive war dec fees, and while I could affect RvB using the deplete strategy, as they are actually doing this for income, I cannot see any efficient way to impact the Goons if they are just in it for griefing.


Srs qustns.
1) Why shouldnt they have protection if they can afford it?

2) How do you know that Grroons are griefing and not incoming?

3) Why shouldnt Grroons be allowed to protect an economic war strategy


1) Taking it at the game level, we have a very strong effective alliance which is basically being protected by an entity who gets the most kills on them, Concord, its illogical as a game mechanism, thats not a grrr Goon comment, I think that having a mechanism within the war dec system that takes Concord intervention into accounts is just common sense and very easy to do.

2) They may be gathering income, but one of their often stated goals is to grief hisec

3) Of course they should be able to protect themselves, but being behind such a huge war dec cost over what is effectively small income streams is not balanced in any way shape or form, its half baked to be honest.


Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Good for you that you that you got off your butt and took them and I hope you keep them, and if you took one of those POCO's from the Goons or RvB then your comment would be relevent, but I bet you did not so your sneer has no basis in fact, take one of them from the Goons and then I will give you respect, at this point your post was full of epeen!!!


Mre Srs Qstns
1) Why is it important who its taken off? Do you think Grroons care?

2) Is respect worth isk these days?

3) Would you like to buy a moon?


1) If he took them off of Interbus or a small corp then its silly to sneer like that and beat his chest, but if he had taken them off Goons or your alliance then what he said would mean something in terms of this discussion, instead it was stupid epeen which is what I called it

2) Ask Chribba

3) I have siphons, don't need a moon

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#88 - 2013-12-03 11:07:18 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Lets repeat as your seem to not get it, I can affect your alliance by depleting your planets, simple as, as your driver is profit.

But your simplistic and babyish Grrrr Goons comment does not hide the fact that apart from paying a massive war dec cost there is no way to impact effectively any large entity who takes POCO's with the intention to grief.

You can blather buzz words all youy want, its laughable


Why so angry?

Why do you need to get at the Grroons so much?

Why do you hate them?

I dont know what you mean by "buzz words".

if youd like me to rephrase my statements to be acceptable to you, please let me know what words you are offended by.

Dracvlad wrote:
I am sitting rather pretty, I have a huge stock of PI material, and am currently depleting some idiots planet who applied a 30% tax with multiple toons, fun fun fun, and you tell me I should evolve, lol.


So why are you upset again? What is your point?


Grrrrr Goons is a buzz word used as a off the cuff remark to disarm someone making a valid point, people using such terms tend to be intellectually lazy and the use of such buzz words like that will always get my withering contempt! You might have noticed that I did not reply to Jint because of that.

Hate Goons, nah, in fact I respect what they have done, especially their leadership, however early on I decided that I would oppose them for fun and I find it bad game design on the part of CCP that they are protected by the war dec system in terms of POCO's. To opose someone you need to be able to impact them, the POCO's are an issue in terms of the Goons because if their intention is primarily to grief, there is not much one can do to oppose them. That is why I pointed out the difference between RvB and the Goons, as you want income then people in a system could use depletion to impact you, would that affect the Goons if their goal is grief, no.

The only thing I am angry about is CCP's stupidity on this, I hope that they see the Concord kill adjustment to the war dec and implement it, cause and effect basically..., but to leave it with such high war dec fees on something of marginal value is bad game design in terms of balance.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#89 - 2013-12-03 11:13:20 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


1) Taking it at the game level, we have a very strong effective alliance which is basically being protected by an entity who gets the most kills on them, Concord, its illogical as a game mechanism, thats not a grrr Goon comment, I think that having a mechanism within the war dec system that takes Concord intervention into accounts is just common sense and very easy to do.

2) They may be gathering income, but one of their often stated goals is to grief hisec

3) Of course they should be able to protect themselves, but being behind such a huge war dec cost over what is effectively small income streams is not balanced in any way shape or form, its half baked to be honest.

4) If he took them off of Interbus or a small corp then its silly to sneer like that and beat his chest, but if he had taken them off Goons or your alliance then what he said would mean something in terms of this discussion, instead it was stupid epeen which is what I called it

5) Ask Chribba

6) I have siphons, don't need a moon


(Renumbered for clarity)

1) What does Concord have to do with you declaring war?

2) So you DONT actually know? You are just Grr Goonsing because you think people will support that point of view then?

3) Why isnt it balanced to make it hard for corps that can be set up in minutes to grief-dec large alliances? Why dont you think that they wouldnt make it mutual if you were planning to fight them?

4) Epeen is worth the paper its printed on. Does it mean somethign to you that someone else was able to do something you claim to not want to do in the first place?

5) Im not asking Chribba, Im asking you. If someone is respected by you more for killing a Grroon POCO than a Interbus one, what does that do for them? Should they care?

6) So why are you complaining about something you dont even do? Also, why are you complaining about the Grroons doing something YOU are doing (ie "griefing")?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#90 - 2013-12-03 11:55:26 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


1) Taking it at the game level, we have a very strong effective alliance which is basically being protected by an entity who gets the most kills on them, Concord, its illogical as a game mechanism, thats not a grrr Goon comment, I think that having a mechanism within the war dec system that takes Concord intervention into accounts is just common sense and very easy to do.

2) They may be gathering income, but one of their often stated goals is to grief hisec

3) Of course they should be able to protect themselves, but being behind such a huge war dec cost over what is effectively small income streams is not balanced in any way shape or form, its half baked to be honest.

4) If he took them off of Interbus or a small corp then its silly to sneer like that and beat his chest, but if he had taken them off Goons or your alliance then what he said would mean something in terms of this discussion, instead it was stupid epeen which is what I called it

5) Ask Chribba

6) I have siphons, don't need a moon


(Renumbered for clarity)

1) What does Concord have to do with you declaring war?

2) So you DONT actually know? You are just Grr Goonsing because you think people will support that point of view then?

3) Why isnt it balanced to make it hard for corps that can be set up in minutes to grief-dec large alliances? Why dont you think that they wouldnt make it mutual if you were planning to fight them?

4) Epeen is worth the paper its printed on. Does it mean somethign to you that someone else was able to do something you claim to not want to do in the first place?

5) Im not asking Chribba, Im asking you. If someone is respected by you more for killing a Grroon POCO than a Interbus one, what does that do for them? Should they care?

6) So why are you complaining about something you dont even do? Also, why are you complaining about the Grroons doing something YOU are doing (ie "griefing")?


1) Concord defines the cost of the war dec

2) The profit or grief motive may also be different depending on the players or corp that took the POCO, of course I don't know, but I tend to come from the point of view of listening to people when they say that they want to kill you and of course previous directed griefing campaigns against hisec are a good pointer. To call it Grrrrrr Goons agains is silly.

3) So you see no difference between war deccing IRC as was (when they had 4500 members) or the Goons, one had no interest and a actual ban on high sec griefing and the other activiely promotes it, lol. The suggestion of linking the war dec to Concord reactive action is a valid one.

4) Beating his chest over taking an Interbus POCO has no relevence, anyone can do that, but if he had taken a POCO from someone like you then it does. As for me, if I really wanted a POCO I could take one, the thing for me is that I will in due course, I am waiting to see how things will settle down.

5) You asked if Trust mattered more than ISK and I referred you to Chribba as an example, as for a Goon POCO, in terms of that poster chest beating yes it does, because wow he killed an Interbus one, I am so not impressed, but if he took and held one that was the Goons, I would be impressed, nothing to do with Grrr Goons.

6) That was a POCO which I was using, so I suggested that 30% was stupid, to which I got the normal silly response, so now they are going to find their planets depleted for as long as they hold them. Its called resisting actually, of course I could war dec them and take it, but at the end of the day I have no desire to take a POCO yet, I want to see how things develop.

You are suggesting that the Goons have a strategic objective which is to attack the manufacturing base of hisec, well tell me something that I am not already fully aware of..., wow.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Stahlregen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2013-12-03 12:02:33 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Lets repeat as your seem to not get it, I can affect your alliance by depleting your planets, simple as, as your driver is profit.

But your simplistic and babyish Grrrr Goons comment does not hide the fact that apart from paying a massive war dec cost there is no way to impact effectively any large entity who takes POCO's with the intention to grief.

You can blather buzz words all youy want, its laughable


Why so angry?

Why do you need to get at the Grroons so much?

Why do you hate them?

I dont know what you mean by "buzz words".

if youd like me to rephrase my statements to be acceptable to you, please let me know what words you are offended by.

Dracvlad wrote:
I am sitting rather pretty, I have a huge stock of PI material, and am currently depleting some idiots planet who applied a 30% tax with multiple toons, fun fun fun, and you tell me I should evolve, lol.


So why are you upset again? What is your point?


Grrrrr Goons is a buzz word used as a off the cuff remark to disarm someone making a valid point, people using such terms tend to be intellectually lazy and the use of such buzz words like that will always get my withering contempt! You might have noticed that I did not reply to Jint because of that.

Hate Goons, nah, in fact I respect what they have done, especially their leadership, however early on I decided that I would oppose them for fun and I find it bad game design on the part of CCP that they are protected by the war dec system in terms of POCO's. To opose someone you need to be able to impact them, the POCO's are an issue in terms of the Goons because if their intention is primarily to grief, there is not much one can do to oppose them. That is why I pointed out the difference between RvB and the Goons, as you want income then people in a system could use depletion to impact you, would that affect the Goons if their goal is grief, no.

The only thing I am angry about is CCP's stupidity on this, I hope that they see the Concord kill adjustment to the war dec and implement it, cause and effect basically..., but to leave it with such high war dec fees on something of marginal value is bad game design in terms of balance.




You keep bringing up wardec mechanics as if it's a barrier preventing you from attacking goon assets but are ignoring the fact that 99.9% of goon infrastructure is located in 0.0 space, space where wardecs mean absolutely nothing. It's obvious you're just being willfully obtuse and argumentative for the sake of argument.

I present this comment made by you to support this.

Quote:
Hate Goons, nah, in fact I respect what they have done, especially their leadership, however early on I decided that I would oppose them for fun


But yes, please continue to tell us how Grr Goons is totally not a valid and perfectly acceptable reply to the sort of rambling, nonsensical and downright trollish posts like your own.

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#92 - 2013-12-03 12:16:23 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:
EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.


Sorry to derail, but Stahlregen.... OMFG, your mornings sound AWESOME!!!!!

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#93 - 2013-12-03 12:16:43 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:
You keep bringing up wardec mechanics as if it's a barrier preventing you from attacking goon assets but are ignoring the fact that 99.9% of goon infrastructure is located in 0.0 space, space where wardecs mean absolutely nothing. It's obvious you're just being willfully obtuse and argumentative for the sake of argument.

I present this comment made by you to support this.

Quote:
Hate Goons, nah, in fact I respect what they have done, especially their leadership, however early on I decided that I would oppose them for fun


But yes, please continue to tell us how Grr Goons is totally not a valid and perfectly acceptable reply to the sort of rambling, nonsensical and downright trollish posts like your own.


The subject we are talking about is HISEC POCO's which are in hisec would you believe, which is what we are talking about attacking and you have to use a WARDEC to be able to attack them, funny that, wake up...keep up, engage brain, get your head out of your butt...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#94 - 2013-12-03 12:19:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
1)" Concord defines the cost of the war dec" - Are you saying you believe CONCORD is real? The size of a Corp compared to a basic game mechanic decides the cost. It has nothing to do with CONCORD apart from flavour text. And flavour text should not be confused with rules.

2) "To call it Grrrrrr Goons agains is silly." - But three sentences shorter and to the point of what you are saying. You say that "griefing" as you put it (a buzz word by your own definition btw) is not a valid game goal. I put that they arent actually griefing as it doesnt follow CCPs definition of griefing. Whatever they are doing is perfectly legal and just because you dont like it doesnt invalidate it as an in-game goal

3)" So you see no difference between war deccing IRC as was (when they had 4500 members) or the Goons, one had no interest and a actual ban on high sec griefing and the other activiely promotes it, lol. The suggestion of linking the war dec to Concord reactive action is a valid one. " - Why should the reasons for a war have ANY impact on the cost to declare war? Further, as mentioned by another poster, it is EASIER to hit Grroon resources as they have a vast null prescence.

4)" Beating his chest over taking an Interbus POCO has no relevence, anyone can do that, but if he had taken a POCO from someone like you then it does. As for me, if I really wanted a POCO I could take one, the thing for me is that I will in due course, I am waiting to see how things will settle down." - Yes but so what? How does it make any difference who took it from who? The point is who has it NOW.

5) "You asked if Trust mattered more than ISK and I referred you to Chribba as an example" - Chirriba might have trust, but he has far more Isk. And he got that himself. No one GIVES Chribba Isk because they trust him. Trust and respect aren't the same thing, anyway.

6) " That was a POCO which I was using, so I suggested that 30% was stupid, to which I got the normal silly response, so now they are going to find their planets depleted for as long as they hold them. Its called resisting actually, of course I could war dec them and take it, but at the end of the day I have no desire to take a POCO yet, I want to see how things develop." - This does not answer the questions; Why are you complaining about something you dont even do? Also, why are you complaining about the Grroons doing something YOU are doing (ie "griefing")?

"You are suggesting that the Goons have a strategic objective which is to attack the manufacturing base of hisec" - No Im not. I dont believe I said anything remotely like that.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Stahlregen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2013-12-03 12:22:32 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
You keep bringing up wardec mechanics as if it's a barrier preventing you from attacking goon assets but are ignoring the fact that 99.9% of goon infrastructure is located in 0.0 space, space where wardecs mean absolutely nothing. It's obvious you're just being willfully obtuse and argumentative for the sake of argument.

I present this comment made by you to support this.

Quote:
Hate Goons, nah, in fact I respect what they have done, especially their leadership, however early on I decided that I would oppose them for fun


But yes, please continue to tell us how Grr Goons is totally not a valid and perfectly acceptable reply to the sort of rambling, nonsensical and downright trollish posts like your own.


The subject we are talking about is HISEC POCO's which are in hisec would you believe, which is what we are talking about attacking and you have to use a WARDEC to be able to attack them, funny that, wake up...keep up, engage brain, get your head out of your butt...


Then wardec us already! Holy crap man, I and other people have already told you what you can do, they've offered alternatives but all you can say to this is; "I don't like what people are doing! I'm also not going to even try to stop them because I can't be bothered to make the same effort the people I want to stop made in the first place! Please! Why won't somebody do it for me??"

Hahhaa grow up, you ******* child.

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-12-03 12:34:05 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
You keep bringing up wardec mechanics as if it's a barrier preventing you from attacking goon assets but are ignoring the fact that 99.9% of goon infrastructure is located in 0.0 space, space where wardecs mean absolutely nothing. It's obvious you're just being willfully obtuse and argumentative for the sake of argument.

I present this comment made by you to support this.

Quote:
Hate Goons, nah, in fact I respect what they have done, especially their leadership, however early on I decided that I would oppose them for fun


But yes, please continue to tell us how Grr Goons is totally not a valid and perfectly acceptable reply to the sort of rambling, nonsensical and downright trollish posts like your own.


The subject we are talking about is HISEC POCO's which are in hisec would you believe, which is what we are talking about attacking and you have to use a WARDEC to be able to attack them, funny that, wake up...keep up, engage brain, get your head out of your butt...


Then wardec us already!

Is it normal for you to look as stupid as you look right now or it's rare occasion?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#97 - 2013-12-03 12:35:39 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

Is it normal for you to look as stupid as you look right now or it's rare occasion?


Thats rich lol

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#98 - 2013-12-03 12:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Dracvlad wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Bah, all these people crying and whining about larger, more established groups having benefits over entitled solo players. My (small, rag-tag) corp owns a few POCOs (most in lowsec, some in hisec) and it we grinded them all ourselves, working through reinforcement timers and dodging hostilities from our public enemies. We bled for those things with our ships, we deserve the ISK we gain from them as long as we may still keep them. We proved a small but commited group can take them down with proper coordination and some effort. I once thought POCO ownership to be something for the big guys. I proved myself wrong, and I am glad I did. People tend to overestimate the effort required to kill a POCO or come up with the funds for a wardec.


Entitled, LMAO at that, the least entitled players in the game are the solo players, keep kidding yourself, we are talking about the fact that very large entities can hide behind very expensive war dec fees, and while I could affect RvB using the deplete strategy, as they are actually doing this for income, I cannot see any efficient way to impact the Goons if they are just in it for griefing.

Good for you that you that you got off your butt and took them and I hope you keep them, and if you took one of those POCO's from the Goons or RvB then your comment would be relevent, but I bet you did not so your sneer has no basis in fact, take one of them from the Goons and then I will give you respect, at this point your post was full of epeen!!!


It's sad you would only respect us if we took them from Goons. To bad for you, Goons don't have assets in the region where we live. Insidious Empire did, and we took them. The Initiative did, and we took them. I hope that carries enough weight to gain your approval. I did mention reinforcement timers, I admit these were mainly lowsec POCO's for which no dec is needed. I agree wardec costs are a point of concern. However, hisec's risk-free isk-generating environment should provide the ISK needed for decs, just as lowsec provides the risk to replace the many, many ships we tend to lose! Lol

Entitlement is everywhere, not just in solo players, but remember this thread started with a 3-man corp CEO complaining him and his alts couldn't get into the big-boys game. And I'm telling you the game is for little boys too, just not for single individuals. Thinking this is bad game design is indeed entitlement.

In order to become a player in the CO game you need a couple of things, but where people often see an insurmountable barrier that keeps them from even trying, I can tell from experience those barriers are mainly mental. A CO gantry and it's upgrade items. A couple of bash ships. And some ISK if you want to target a hisec group. Sure, people like me are not going to down Goons or RvB POCO's just to make a point, but once you have a couple of POCO's providing income your corp can decide to keep the momentum going, and invest the new income stream into downing those belonging to larger groups.

The glass ceiling you mentioned isn't there.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#99 - 2013-12-03 12:44:56 UTC
1)" Concord defines the cost of the war dec" - Are you saying you believe CONCORD is real? The size of a Corp compared to a basic game mechanic decides the cost. It has nothing to do with CONCORD apart from flavour text. And flavour text should not be confused with rules. What a strange reply, is that relevent in anyway to what I said, obviously you are confused.

2) "To call it Grrrrrr Goons agains is silly." - But three sentences shorter and to the point of what you are saying. You say that "griefing" as you put it (a buzz word by your own definition btw) is not a valid game goal. I put that they arent actually griefing as it doesnt follow CCPs definition of griefing. Whatever they are doing is perfectly legal and just because you dont like it doesnt invalidate it as an in-game goal Are you trying tosuggest I am saying what you just tried to say here, whatever it is, well no

3)" So you see no difference between war deccing IRC as was (when they had 4500 members) or the Goons, one had no interest and a actual ban on high sec griefing and the other activiely promotes it, lol. The suggestion of linking the war dec to Concord reactive action is a valid one. " - Why should the reasons for a war have ANY impact on the cost to declare war? Further, as mentioned by another poster, it is EASIER to hit Grroon resources as they have a vast null prescence. The Goons are sheltered by their war dec costs, simple fact, and as for their null sec assets we are talking about hisec POCO's, I want to take a POCO, so I go and SBU VFK, won't work will it?

4)" Beating his chest over taking an Interbus POCO has no relevence, anyone can do that, but if he had taken a POCO from someone like you then it does. As for me, if I really wanted a POCO I could take one, the thing for me is that I will in due course, I am waiting to see how things will settle down." - Yes but so what? How does it make any difference who took it from who? The point is who has it NOW. He was making out he was all tough, and if he took it from Interbus well I guess I won't be shaking in my shoes...

5) "You asked if Trust mattered more than ISK and I referred you to Chribba as an example" - Chirriba might have trust, but he has far more Isk. And he got that himself. No one GIVES Chribba Isk because they trust him. Trust and respect aren't the same thing, anyway. It was your question!

6) " That was a POCO which I was using, so I suggested that 30% was stupid, to which I got the normal silly response, so now they are going to find their planets depleted for as long as they hold them. Its called resisting actually, of course I could war dec them and take it, but at the end of the day I have no desire to take a POCO yet, I want to see how things develop." - This does not answer the questions; Why are you complaining about something you dont even do? Also, why are you complaining about the Grroons doing something YOU are doing (ie "griefing")? I have been doing hisec PI, that is why I have an issue with this, , with your alliance I have leverage, againstthe Goons I don't think I have, can't you get your head around that?

"You are suggesting that the Goons have a strategic objective which is to attack the manufacturing base of hisec" - No Im not. I dont believe I said anything remotely like that That is what your post seemed to be heading towards

Anyway having an exchange with you is like head butting a wall or trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result, I have enjoyed ascertaining the level of your posting, but at this point I have better things to do, well I will reply to this Goon and then I better get to it, have fun....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#100 - 2013-12-03 13:00:26 UTC
1) "What a strange reply, is that relevent in anyway to what I said, obviously you are confused." It is completely relevant to what you said. Otherwise, please, enlighten us all in how CONCORD sets the price of a war dec.

2) " Are you trying tosuggest I am saying what you just tried to say here, whatever it is, well no" En Anglais, sil vous plait

3)" The Goons are sheltered by their war dec costs, simple fact, and as for their null sec assets we are talking about hisec POCO's, I want to take a POCO, so I go and SBU VFK, won't work will it?" I thought you didnt want POCOs, I thought you were a syphon-sucker and moon goo drinker? Plenty of tasty Grroon Mrrroons out there.

4)" He was making out he was all tough, and if he took it from Interbus well I guess I won't be shaking in my shoes..." And again what difference does that make to anything? Who TF cares? Apart from you?

5) It was your question! And Im telling you your answer is wrong. Care to try again?

6) " I have been doing hisec PI, that is why I have an issue with this, , with your alliance I have leverage, againstthe Goons I don't think I have, can't you get your head around that?" Hmm you said you werent. Try to keep your lies consistant and perhaps you can actually LRN2debate. Also, what leverage is this you speak of?

" That is what your post seemed to be heading towards" Nope. Never even crossed my mind. I dont assume to guess what Grroon strategy is. Im not Mittens lovechild. Or am I...?

"Anyway having an exchange with you is like head butting a wall or trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result, I have enjoyed ascertaining the level of your posting, but at this point I have better things to do, well I will reply to this Goon and then I better get to it, have fun...." I accept your surrender.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann