EVE General Discussion

I think it is important to take this apart and think about this for a second.

As stated, I agree. You can faucet in a lot of ISK in highsec through missions and bounties. But not all activity in highsec is a faucet. Production of goods, and trade, is actually not an ISK faucet. It's an ISK sink.

Trading in EVE is a lot like poker in a casino in a lot of ways. You can beat the other people and come out ahead, but the house still rakes your winning, even if only a tiny amount. You don't "create" ISK. You can /earn/ ISK, yes, but you aren't creating any. You actually delete ISK. The house/casino in EVE just deletes the rake, thus functioning as a sink.

Production is a gamble in a different sense. You add "value" to a material by altering it's state - but again, no ISK is generated, and you still have to sell your goods (sinking ISK in general), or even buy certain sets of materials (sinking more ISK).

HOWEVER

I don't dislike your idea, so don't take this post negatively - I think it would stop some behavior that I consider to be basically an exploit. I just view it as an unfinished idea. I don't like the concept of punishing people who are adding wealth to the economy.

Punishing the people who only add ISK to the economy is a perfectly fine idea.

And let's be honest. The primary profitable targets would be the people moving around materials and making stuff to add to the economy, NOT the mission runners -- as it's so overpowered the only thing they have to risk is their mission ship. They don't even have to cart around goods.

Ok, but manufacturing and trading can be, and frequently are, done by characters who have no need to ever undock. They are the ones actually performing industry, not the roid munchers or mission blitzers.

Btw, before anyone mentions it.

Yes, I mentioned earlier that my playtime is presently engaged in blitzing missions. This is to get another PLEX to donate before the 7th. I normally do not mission much except to get a specific implant or mod or some such. Too boring. :P

Not taking sides, but it was just a comment I thought interesting and wanted to ask. Thanks for the reply.

Though I kinda see a small bit of both blame and benefit. Blame in that Tiericide generally unified mineral consumption for a given class of ship upwards towards the formerly higher tier, and benefit in that it gives more room for player groups to provide value for new players to get them into corps.

My first character was made in 2009, which while rather recent, has seen a trend. While isk flow has undoubtedly increased, mechanical changes in the game seem to have always done more to prices universally than isk faucets over long terms.

Except its not nerfing industry so much as its shifting it from NPC controlled to player controlled, which is a good thing.

So what part of shifting translates to reducing? I get that you're trying to say people will fight over industrial capabilities which will reduce supply. The same was said of ice belts and the price increase hasn't been ruinous as you claim this change would be.

Well, when you shift parts of highsec into tight controls, you reduce the quantity of trade as not everybody will have access to said trade.

This reduces one of the core isk sinks in the game. If you don't think a huge amount of ISK is sinked out of the game by a high quantity of trade -- you are wrong.

Meanwhile -- mission runners -- who are a huge ISK faucet, are unaffected by your change by and large, as once they have access to an agent they can freely run it over and over.

Furthermore, there is no incentive to target a mission runner by and large. They don't carry loot on them -- it is ISK and loyalty points. You can't gank it away from them.

When producing, you are a lucrative target. True -- you could hire freighter services to sustain the risk for you, but that will just bite into your profits over time, and eventually you should just transport yourself.

Serious industrialists undock. And they function as an ISK sink throughout. Not only do they undock -- but they pose a target that mission runners never will.

By screwing with highsec production without buffing nullsec production...and furthermore, basically leaving mission runner faucets untouched, all you do is increase inflation significantly.

Really, so lets try and add more people the 10% TiDi, node crashing fights. Yeah that's the ticket that will fix SoV and make it interesting.

I'm going to bite into this because it just isn't true. After a certain point it is obviously more profitable to absorb the risk and haul yourself.

If anything, it is mostly the small/medium scale producers that rely on freighter services.

and war deccing the NPC corps that are known to have many red frog freighter alts...

i am sure that would do nothing to prices.

What a pile of "It works for me so it's ok!".

There are ways of making a lot of ISK in null. There were even more before - prior to Odyssey nobody bothered doing Magnetometric and Radar sites because they required scanning down and running in a specific way. T2 salvage from that used to be quite profitable and even common decryptors sold well. Odyssey crashed the market, cutting that revenue stream (talking drops in price to about 1/20th of it.)

Of course, exploration is still profitable - be that Datas/Relics (easy to run in a covert ops that gets you past most danger unless you're really bad.) or DEDs. The problem is, it's limited. There's a limit on how many sites spawn in a region and it's often just enough to sustain a small population of people doing them.

It's worth mentioning that you need to travel around, scan things down and often - both in the case of Relics, Datas and DEDs, can get sod all in loot because random number generator hates you. If you compare that to hisec, at any given time a mission agent can service unlimited population. They provide an excluded location you have to be probed down in for someone to find you, are already in safe space where you're at no risk unless you're stupid.

Additionally, mission payout is composed out of rat bounties/reward + LP. Selling LP items works as commodity-based income - it adjusts for the market and value of ISK, unlike bounties.

It's much, much easier to ~lazymode~ ISK in hisec when you're doing PvP on an alt. Shouldn't really be the case.