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Eve Down Under Bombshell: No Sov overhaul until at least Winter 2014

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#221 - 2013-12-02 23:51:07 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
mynnna wrote:

I'd love to believe you played then but you're hiding behind a three day old alt so I don't really have any evidence.


You learn to troll before or after you joined the CSM?

I came to discuss the topic, what did you come here to do?

you just announced right above you weren't going to discuss it because your ideas couldn't deal with scrutiny, so you were just going to claim you had them and leave it at that

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#222 - 2013-12-02 23:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Don't look now, the thread just became a metaphor for what is wrong with 0.0

You mean that angry GrrGoons posters keep rolling new alts to deny easily verified historical facts and claim that everything bad in 0.0 was invented by the CFC?

edit: I mean the problems with nullsec stretch far beyond that but it's true that GrrGoons derailing of every discussion of the topic isn't really helping .

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#223 - 2013-12-02 23:55:07 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Maybe I could pay $15 to have goonswarm under my name

maybe then I'd know what I was talking about

you guys should pile in more.

Don't look now, the thread just became a metaphor for what is wrong with 0.0

basically the point is that if you are so afraid of your opinion being glued to the hypothetical 2003 character you own that you literally register a new alt to post the opinion, the opinion is probably bad and wrong

in addition, it's also highly probable that you are simply lying
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#224 - 2013-12-02 23:55:38 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
The resistance to this idea is people being unwilling to change and highsec refusing to give up anything for the good of them game then throwing a huge tantrum over the thought of change.


This is a strawman argument and is patently false.

I live and play in nullsec, and I disagree with you.

I don't think this would be good for the game. It would be bad for the game. Incredibly bad. As others have said, the income in nullsec is perfectly fine.. I don't go to nullsec for cookies. I go there for isk.

Not to mention that there are well established rental fees in the order of 1 - 10 BILLION isk per month, for a singular system, and people still rent those systems and make a profit doing it (or they would stop doing it...)

If there is some fundamental problem with nullsec, I don't think it has to do with the income potential. Definitely not.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#225 - 2013-12-02 23:56:06 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Maybe I could pay $15 to have goonswarm under my name

maybe then I'd know what I was talking about

you guys should pile in more.

Don't look now, the thread just became a metaphor for what is wrong with 0.0

basically the point is that if you are so afraid of your opinion being glued to the hypothetical 2003 character you own that you literally register a new alt to post the opinion, the opinion is probably bad and wrong

in addition, it's also highly probable that you are simply lying

also if you think your opinion is so bad you won't even post it on a posting alt because it will get owned, there is a strong possibility you're completely correct about how bad it is

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2013-12-03 00:01:25 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Pinky Hops wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
The resistance to this idea is people being unwilling to change and highsec refusing to give up anything for the good of them game then throwing a huge tantrum over the thought of change.


This is a strawman argument and is patently false.

I live and play in nullsec, and I disagree with you.

I don't think this would be good for the game. It would be bad for the game. Incredibly bad. As others have said, the income in nullsec is perfectly fine.. I don't go to nullsec for cookies. I go there for isk.

Not to mention that there are well established rental fees in the order of 1 - 10 BILLION isk per month, for a singular system, and people still rent those systems and make a profit doing it (or they would stop doing it...)

If there is some fundamental problem with nullsec, I don't think it has to do with the income potential. Definitely not.



No its not, highsec regularly has tantrums over any sort of change that may bring it in line and this thread is a great example of it.

E: You've only been in highsec corps/alliances so yeah no nullsec for you, try harder to fabricate things next time.

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The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#227 - 2013-12-03 00:02:01 UTC
Null has always had 3-5 blocs. Currently there are, depending upon how you count it, 3 (cfc, rus, n3) or 4 (cfc, rus, n3, pl) or 5 (cfc, rus, n3, pl, ncdot).

You're welcome to disagree with me about null politics, but you're probably wrong if you do. vOv

~hi~
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#228 - 2013-12-03 00:06:57 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
The problem is, the people that own 0.0 really aren't interesting in fixing it .

Your CSM members aren't interested in fixing it.

They just want to tailor it to suit themselves.


This is true. I have yet to see a proposal from a CSM member that would hurt their own alliance while helping the game - because to them, that is impossible Blink

It is like politics. People elect individuals to represent their group and request changes that help their group. They don't have any interest in the world overall "improving."

It's not surprising really, and this isn't some sort of weird twisted thing unique to certain groups. Humans in general behave this way.
Deunan Tenephais
#229 - 2013-12-03 00:08:11 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
No its not, highsec regularly has tantrums over any sort of change that may bring it in line and this thread is a great example of it.

The "tantrum rethoric" again, you know it seems strange that so many goons write here to defend the nerfing of high sec, especially considering they inhabit null sec.
Oh wait...

Now, seriously, let's say an alliance, whoever it may be, perhaps not even goons or any of their allies, was to really control all of null sec, or even the whole of tranquility.
Wouldn't it become so boring that many people in this alliance would simply quit the game ?
Serious answers only please.

Edit pre-post: oh, the big man himself, would you be so kind to take a minute to answer my question, pretty please ?
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#230 - 2013-12-03 00:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
La Nariz wrote:
E: You've only been in highsec corps/alliances so yeah no nullsec for you, try harder to fabricate things next time.


I'm pretty much always undocked and I'm in nullsec over 95% of my game time.

In goonswarm space, most of the time Pirate....P

(also, you are creating yet another strawman. do you know what a strawman is?)
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#231 - 2013-12-03 00:08:46 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:

This is true. I have yet to see a proposal from a CSM member that would hurt their own alliance while helping the game - because to them, that is impossible Blink

What is "the technetium nerf" for $400, Alex
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#232 - 2013-12-03 00:09:11 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
The resistance to this idea is people being unwilling to change and highsec refusing to give up anything for the good of them game then throwing a huge tantrum over the thought of change.


This is a strawman argument and is patently false.

I live and play in nullsec, and I disagree with you.

I don't think this would be good for the game. It would be bad for the game. Incredibly bad. As others have said, the income in nullsec is perfectly fine.. I don't go to nullsec for cookies. I go there for isk.

Not to mention that there are well established rental fees in the order of 1 - 10 BILLION isk per month, for a singular system, and people still rent those systems and make a profit doing it (or they would stop doing it...)

If there is some fundamental problem with nullsec, I don't think it has to do with the income potential. Definitely not.



You realize that 10 billion isk a month is about 14 million isk an hour, right? Saying that people "make a profit" doing that isn't really that impressive at all.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2013-12-03 00:09:57 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
The problem is, the people that own 0.0 really aren't interesting in fixing it .

Your CSM members aren't interested in fixing it.

They just want to tailor it to suit themselves.


This is true. I have yet to see a proposal from a CSM member that would hurt their own alliance while helping the game - because to them, that is impossible Blink

It is like politics. People elect individuals to represent their group and request changes that help their group. They don't have any interest in the world overall "improving."

It's not surprising really, and this isn't some sort of weird twisted thing unique to certain groups. Humans in general behave this way.


So it looks like you are being willfully stupid or completely ignoring history. We were advocating for tech nerfs while we were tech barons. A decision that would harm our position while improving the game. Huh, we can do that but, highsec refuses to take the smallest of changes for the improvement of the game.

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Deunan Tenephais
#234 - 2013-12-03 00:11:38 UTC
mynnna wrote:
You realize that 10 billion isk a month is about 14 million isk an hour, right? Saying that people "make a profit" doing that isn't really that impressive at all.

You realize people do not play 24/24, 7/7 ?
When they are not bots, that is.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2013-12-03 00:11:52 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:

This is true. I have yet to see a proposal from a CSM member that would hurt their own alliance while helping the game - because to them, that is impossible Blink

What is "the technetium nerf" for $400, Alex


... and nothing really changed. :D I predict more of the same, expecting different results ... forever. Blink

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#236 - 2013-12-03 00:12:08 UTC
mynnna wrote:
You realize that 10 billion isk a month is about 14 million isk an hour, right? Saying that people "make a profit" doing that isn't really that impressive at all.


Wow. You don't know much about economics, do you?

Here's a hint: in assessing the cost of a situation like this, you can't just divide it out and call it a profit. That would be called a revenue, not a profit. There is then other complexities involved, such as the opportunity cost of spending 10b on it, logistics, shipping, movement, etc.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2013-12-03 00:13:44 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
No its not, highsec regularly has tantrums over any sort of change that may bring it in line and this thread is a great example of it.

The "tantrum rethoric" again, you know it seems strange that so many goons write here to defend the nerfing of high sec, especially considering they inhabit null sec.
Oh wait...

Now, seriously, let's say an alliance, whoever it may be, perhaps not even goons or any of their allies, was to really control all of null sec, or even the whole of tranquility.
Wouldn't it become so boring that many people in this alliance would simply quit the game ?
Serious answers only please.

Edit pre-post: oh, the big man himself, would you be so kind to take a minute to answer my question, pretty please ?


Go ahead and don the tinfoil hat, its pretty much the only defense against nerfing highsec.

Look at the PI threads and the ice threads. They are the perfect examples of highsec tantrums occuring over small changes that make the game better. Highsec is completely intolerant, selfish and out of control.

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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#238 - 2013-12-03 00:16:14 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:

This is true. I have yet to see a proposal from a CSM member that would hurt their own alliance while helping the game - because to them, that is impossible Blink

What is "the technetium nerf" for $400, Alex


... and nothing really changed. :D I predict more of the same, expecting different results ... forever. Blink

did you miss the part where every major nullsec bloc had to create a gigantic rental empire to recover our income from the loss of the technetium gravy train or were you too busy sucking crokite to notice
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#239 - 2013-12-03 00:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Promiscuous Female wrote:
did you miss the part where every major nullsec bloc had to create a gigantic rental empire to recover our income from the loss of the technetium gravy train or were you too busy sucking crokite to notice


I think you are hilariously misinformed.

The nerf hurt one particular alliance far more than anybody else, and it wasn't Goonswarm Blink.

Also: don't be absurd. The rental racketeering program is generally about laziness and double income potential, more than anything else.

1) Charge people rent for a system.
2) Farm the same system with anonymous alts when they aren't online, or if you feel like a ****, even when they are online
3) Profit....Twice.

I don't know how anybody is stupid enough to get sucked into it, but with the population of EVE, there's plenty of suckers. Heck, scamming in Jita is still profitable from what I hear.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#240 - 2013-12-03 00:23:40 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
did you miss the part where every major nullsec bloc had to create a gigantic rental empire to recover our income from the loss of the technetium gravy train or were you too busy sucking crokite to notice


I think you are hilariously misinformed.

The nerf hurt one particular alliance far more than anybody else, and it wasn't Goonswarm Blink.

Also: don't be absurd. The rental racketeering program is generally about laziness and double potential, more than anything else.

1) Charge people rent for a system.
2) Farm the same system with anonymous alts when they aren't online, or if you feel like a ****, even when they are online
3) Profit....Twice.

I don't know how anybody is stupid enough to get sucked into it, but with the population of EVE, there's plenty of suckers. Heck, scamming in Jita is still profitable from what I hear.


~Has no experience running a rental program,

~Only been in highsec corps/alliances,

~Claims to have better knowledge of economics than one of the top finance people in the CFC,

~Claims to have a better concept of history than the people that were in existence for it,

~Throws a ~Highsec Tantrum~ over discussing nerfing highsec.

Yeah you have nothing and are providing yet again another example of highsec people being completely unreasonable with their tantrums.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133