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CCP continues to ignore the plight of missile ships, such as the phoenix in pvp.

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Arduemonl
Doomheim
#101 - 2013-12-02 20:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemonl
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:



So killing a cruiser with a battlecruiser that has nearly triple the eHP.....or hitting an ishtar with a Damnation and Gnosis. Obviously, gods gift to PvP.


You're only looking at a couple of kills for examples. I killed a venture yesterday in a Jaguar. The day before that, I killed a Hurricane in the same ship. Solo. With more than triple the ehp I had.

You cannot gauge a player by only one or two kills that fit your opinion of a player. If you want to find out how truly good he is, why not challenge him to a fight? Or, you can sit there making insubstantial presumptions about him with no basis. I, for one, will take care if I ever find myself in battle against Arduemont, and would welcome him to fight alongside me any day, whether he's predominantly high sec or not.


He also isn't taking account that the Ishtar kill was two BCs against an Ishtar, an Abaddon (who escaped) and a Raven. Epic? Not in the slightest, but we were still outnumbered and out-gunned. Experience rued the day there.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2013-12-02 21:01:13 UTC
Arduemonl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:



So killing a cruiser with a battlecruiser that has nearly triple the eHP.....or hitting an ishtar with a Damnation and Gnosis. Obviously, gods gift to PvP.


You're only looking at a couple of kills for examples. I killed a venture yesterday in a Jaguar. The day before that, I killed a Hurricane in the same ship. Solo. With more than triple the ehp I had.

You cannot gauge a player by only one or two kills that fit your opinion of a player. If you want to find out how truly good he is, why not challenge him to a fight? Or, you can sit there making insubstantial presumptions about him with no basis. I, for one, will take care if I ever find myself in battle against Arduemont, and would welcome him to fight alongside me any day, whether he's predominantly high sec or not.


He also isn't taking account that the Ishtar kill was two BCs against an Ishtar, an Abaddon (who escaped) and a Raven. Epic? Not in the slightest, but we were still outnumbered and out-gunned. Experience rued the day there.



So you caught ratters?

Because if they were PvP builds and remotely set up that should have been bad for you comp for comp
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2013-12-02 21:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Arduemonl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:



So killing a cruiser with a battlecruiser that has nearly triple the eHP.....or hitting an ishtar with a Damnation and Gnosis. Obviously, gods gift to PvP.


You're only looking at a couple of kills for examples. I killed a venture yesterday in a Jaguar. The day before that, I killed a Hurricane in the same ship. Solo. With more than triple the ehp I had.

You cannot gauge a player by only one or two kills that fit your opinion of a player. If you want to find out how truly good he is, why not challenge him to a fight? Or, you can sit there making insubstantial presumptions about him with no basis. I, for one, will take care if I ever find myself in battle against Arduemont, and would welcome him to fight alongside me any day, whether he's predominantly high sec or not.


He also isn't taking account that the Ishtar kill was two BCs against an Ishtar, an Abaddon (who escaped) and a Raven. Epic? Not in the slightest, but we were still outnumbered and out-gunned. Experience rued the day there.


I am. So... you took a Gnosis and a Damnation up against two battleships and a HAC.... Sounds like pretty level ground to me. See, the reason why he's ranked lower than the both of us is because I can't see a single solo kill on his kb... well, let's just say I stopped looking at page 5.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#104 - 2013-12-02 21:03:11 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Well at one point my favorite belt ratter was the drake, cheap, able to tank and could kite far enough out that you had time to warp out and was able to mitigate damage through range, now with 41 km range, I just don't use it. My drakes are now used for popping out of station to check whats there, with tank and a ship scanner or the very limited use HAML drake when someone decides to sit on the undock, fools.... That is the only thing I use them for, HML drakes have no range and pitiful dps, in fact they are utterly useless! When they made the changes to the drake and HML's, I could accept a reduced DPS if they left the range alone, but the range nerf combined with damage nerf was too much and I said that on the thread. I also stopped using the Nighthawk for much the same reason...



Actually the damage and range nerf put HMLs back in line with the other LR medium weapons........
....except they turned around and buffed the crap out of the medium LR turrets, so yeah.

So far as it goes Light Missiles and Cruises both have far and away more range compared to their peers, lights nearly match heavies and cruises are a another order of magnitude in the range department. Cruise missiles have been a side project of mine for a couple weeks now.



Sort of agree with you, though medium Arty was not really changed while medium rails were made useful by improved damage, which made me happy, so yes in terms of rails and no in terms of arty. The drivers for their nerf was more than a balance one, it was also a lag in large fleet fights caused by missiles one. HML's are not really a viable weapon system for PvP or PvE now.

As for the Phoenix, I wish they would just make it a Rail focused dread and forget about missiles...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-12-02 21:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Onictus wrote:
Arduemonl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:



So killing a cruiser with a battlecruiser that has nearly triple the eHP.....or hitting an ishtar with a Damnation and Gnosis. Obviously, gods gift to PvP.


You're only looking at a couple of kills for examples. I killed a venture yesterday in a Jaguar. The day before that, I killed a Hurricane in the same ship. Solo. With more than triple the ehp I had.

You cannot gauge a player by only one or two kills that fit your opinion of a player. If you want to find out how truly good he is, why not challenge him to a fight? Or, you can sit there making insubstantial presumptions about him with no basis. I, for one, will take care if I ever find myself in battle against Arduemont, and would welcome him to fight alongside me any day, whether he's predominantly high sec or not.


He also isn't taking account that the Ishtar kill was two BCs against an Ishtar, an Abaddon (who escaped) and a Raven. Epic? Not in the slightest, but we were still outnumbered and out-gunned. Experience rued the day there.



So you caught ratters?

Because if they were PvP builds and remotely set up that should have been bad for you comp for comp


Did you even look at the Ishtar loss?

Dual nos, scram.... who goes ratting with dual nos and scram?

EDIT: In thinking about it, that's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever asked. Will leave here for transparency's sake.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2013-12-02 21:05:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Arduemonl wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:



So killing a cruiser with a battlecruiser that has nearly triple the eHP.....or hitting an ishtar with a Damnation and Gnosis. Obviously, gods gift to PvP.


You're only looking at a couple of kills for examples. I killed a venture yesterday in a Jaguar. The day before that, I killed a Hurricane in the same ship. Solo. With more than triple the ehp I had.

You cannot gauge a player by only one or two kills that fit your opinion of a player. If you want to find out how truly good he is, why not challenge him to a fight? Or, you can sit there making insubstantial presumptions about him with no basis. I, for one, will take care if I ever find myself in battle against Arduemont, and would welcome him to fight alongside me any day, whether he's predominantly high sec or not.


He also isn't taking account that the Ishtar kill was two BCs against an Ishtar, an Abaddon (who escaped) and a Raven. Epic? Not in the slightest, but we were still outnumbered and out-gunned. Experience rued the day there.


I am. So... he took a Gnosis and a Damnation up against two battleships and a HAC.... Sounds like pretty level ground to me. See, the reason why you're ranked lower than the both of us is because I can't see a single solo kill on your kb... well, let's just say I stopped looking at page 5.



The ishtar is about right......dat raven fit >_< ugh.

....and there are a couple solo kills in there one where a guy in a rifer tackled my Comet, which didn't go so well for him and the other was a bomber that thought it was a good idea to tackle my Naga, there are way more solo losses, but I never claimed to be a solo pilot, quite the contrary, I'm card carrying blobber.

P.S. No one uses battleclinic anymore so take those rankings with a grain of salt, looking at it BC is missing some 600 kills on me, and hell if I'm giving them my API.
Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2013-12-02 21:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Digits Kho
Rifta sax ! Baf rifta rite nao!
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-12-02 21:10:36 UTC
Onictus wrote:

P.S. No one uses battleclinic anymore...


Well... I do. People keep telling me this silliness that 'bc is for nubs' but when I ask why, I get the same stupid answers. "Cuz nobody uses it" or "cuz it's for nubs". I dunno.... I still haven't heard a reason why I shouldn't use it.

I had a head chef once when I was doing my apprenticeship who was like that as well. I proved him wrong consistently whenever he gave me no reason other than "cuz it's for amateurs".

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2013-12-02 21:12:05 UTC
you dare argue with lemmings about bc??!
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2013-12-02 21:16:10 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:

P.S. No one uses battleclinic anymore...


Well... I do. People keep telling me this silliness that 'bc is for nubs' but when I ask why, I get the same stupid answers. "Cuz nobody uses it" or "cuz it's for nubs". I dunno.... I still haven't heard a reason why I shouldn't use it.

I had a head chef once when I was doing my apprenticeship who was like that as well. I proved him wrong consistently whenever he gave me no reason other than "cuz it's for amateurs".



No you can use it if you choose.

For those that have been around a while its an agrivation because there are a lot of things that BC won't post without being API verfied, and many aren't giving them their APIs. It is what it is. You can accomplish the same thing with zKillboard or Evekill without the hassle, AND you don't get shot to a "buy GTC" website for every mis-click.

No more no less.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2013-12-02 21:21:39 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:

P.S. No one uses battleclinic anymore...


Well... I do. People keep telling me this silliness that 'bc is for nubs' but when I ask why, I get the same stupid answers. "Cuz nobody uses it" or "cuz it's for nubs". I dunno.... I still haven't heard a reason why I shouldn't use it.

I had a head chef once when I was doing my apprenticeship who was like that as well. I proved him wrong consistently whenever he gave me no reason other than "cuz it's for amateurs".



No you can use it if you choose.

For those that have been around a while its an agrivation because there are a lot of things that BC won't post without being API verfied, and many aren't giving them their APIs. It is what it is. You can accomplish the same thing with zKillboard or Evekill without the hassle, AND you don't get shot to a "buy GTC" website for every mis-click.

No more no less.


I have adblock, and every one of my kills is on BC.

No problems here.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2013-12-02 21:22:41 UTC
Digits Kho wrote:
you dare argue with lemmings about bc??!


Oh I know you guys hate when I post BC links Cool

Sai told me not to... but I ignored him on that one Twisted

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2013-12-02 21:28:03 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:

P.S. No one uses battleclinic anymore...


Well... I do. People keep telling me this silliness that 'bc is for nubs' but when I ask why, I get the same stupid answers. "Cuz nobody uses it" or "cuz it's for nubs". I dunno.... I still haven't heard a reason why I shouldn't use it.

I had a head chef once when I was doing my apprenticeship who was like that as well. I proved him wrong consistently whenever he gave me no reason other than "cuz it's for amateurs".



No you can use it if you choose.

For those that have been around a while its an agrivation because there are a lot of things that BC won't post without being API verfied, and many aren't giving them their APIs. It is what it is. You can accomplish the same thing with zKillboard or Evekill without the hassle, AND you don't get shot to a "buy GTC" website for every mis-click.

No more no less.


I have adblock, and every one of my kills is on BC.

No problems here.



Well good for you, but there are enough entities with my API, you understand that its actually to your advantage to have all of that be inaccurate right? WHY would you give away free intel.

I.e. I'm a lemming that has never flown a small gang....ever. Right? Twisted
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#114 - 2013-12-02 21:28:35 UTC
Even a simple thing like doubling the explosion velocity and doubling the explosion radius to compensate would go a long way towards making citadel torpedoes useful in the types of fights dreads are typically used for. The pilot would presumably have the skills trained to increase explosion velocity and reduce explosion radius (i.e.: Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision). Then you have webs and painters to do the rest of the job.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2013-12-02 21:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Cura Ursus
I pushed edit on this post, and got the one below, so I'm deleting this one and reporting it to bring this glitch to CCP's attention, cuz this isn't the first time it's happened.


Thanks, I have filed a bug report for this!
-- ISD Cura Ursus

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-12-02 21:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Onictus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:

P.S. No one uses battleclinic anymore...


Well... I do. People keep telling me this silliness that 'bc is for nubs' but when I ask why, I get the same stupid answers. "Cuz nobody uses it" or "cuz it's for nubs". I dunno.... I still haven't heard a reason why I shouldn't use it.

I had a head chef once when I was doing my apprenticeship who was like that as well. I proved him wrong consistently whenever he gave me no reason other than "cuz it's for amateurs".



No you can use it if you choose.

For those that have been around a while its an agrivation because there are a lot of things that BC won't post without being API verfied, and many aren't giving them their APIs. It is what it is. You can accomplish the same thing with zKillboard or Evekill without the hassle, AND you don't get shot to a "buy GTC" website for every mis-click.

No more no less.


I have adblock, and every one of my kills is on BC.

No problems here.



Well good for you, but there are enough entities with my API, you understand that its actually to your advantage to have all of that be inaccurate right? WHY would you give away free intel.

I.e. I'm a lemming that has never flown a small gang....ever. Right? Twisted


I never called you a lemming, and I never judged you for blobbing or anything like that, merely pointing out that killing a Hurricane solo in an assault frigate, for example, is worth 51 pts on bc, whereas blobbing one spreads the points and does less for your rank. Hence why I'm 45K with 115 kills and your 50K with over a thousand and a better KD. My only point, through all this, is that KD alone means nothing.

And while you're talking about me giving away free intel, you're demonstrating that you don't know what to do with it by not exploring the circumstances of Arduemont's Ishtar and Raven kill, so why should I be concerned?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2013-12-02 21:41:46 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I never called you a lemming, and I never judged you for blobbing or anything like that, merely pointing out that killing a Hurricane solo in an assault frigate, for example, is worth 51 pts on bc, whereas blobbing one spreads the points and does less for your rank. Hence why I'm 45K with 115 kills and your 50K with over a thousand and a better KD. My only point, through all this, is that KD alone means nothing.

And while you're talking about me giving away free intel, you're demonstrating that you don't know what to do with it by not exploring the circumstances of Arduemont's Ishtar and Raven kill, so why should I be concerned?



Yeah because trying to navigate BC with a cell phone is the epitome of a good time .....hence why many chose not to use it. The intel I grab is usually first hand anymore, I really don't care about who killed and with what, because out here you know most of that by their tickers, any question marks are assumed to be alts.

Its been a good while since I had to do anything past a glance for any reason except recruitment.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2013-12-02 21:52:24 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I never called you a lemming, and I never judged you for blobbing or anything like that, merely pointing out that killing a Hurricane solo in an assault frigate, for example, is worth 51 pts on bc, whereas blobbing one spreads the points and does less for your rank. Hence why I'm 45K with 115 kills and your 50K with over a thousand and a better KD. My only point, through all this, is that KD alone means nothing.

And while you're talking about me giving away free intel, you're demonstrating that you don't know what to do with it by not exploring the circumstances of Arduemont's Ishtar and Raven kill, so why should I be concerned?



Yeah because trying to navigate BC with a cell phone is the epitome of a good time .....hence why many chose not to use it. The intel I grab is usually first hand anymore, I really don't care about who killed and with what, because out here you know most of that by their tickers, any question marks are assumed to be alts.

Its been a good while since I had to do anything past a glance for any reason except recruitment.


Something being difficult to navigate on a cell phone does not by virtue of being difficult to navigate on a sub-par computing device a bad application make.

I do all my EVE stuff on a PC. If I'm not near my PC, it's because I'm out with friends/at work/at uni and I have my priorities in order.

So... still no issues here.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#119 - 2013-12-02 21:59:25 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well.

The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind.

Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook.


LOL...missiles gained ground with the addition of RHML....LOL.


Tell us more about how being able to pump out 1000 DPS on a battleship with HEAVY MISSILES at 47kms is inconsequential.


And what do you while they reload?
Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back?



^^ Thanks.

The 40 second reload time on RLMLs and even the RHMLs is ridiculous. For burst or alpha damage there was arty. So a good idea was turned into a "gank weapon". I'm sure the blobs will love it.

Small gangs and people trying to "scrub off" tacklers will find out the hard way who is off-grid boosted and they'll have 40 seconds of doing nothing while they watch. Way to kill a module.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2013-12-02 22:03:36 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I never called you a lemming, and I never judged you for blobbing or anything like that, merely pointing out that killing a Hurricane solo in an assault frigate, for example, is worth 51 pts on bc, whereas blobbing one spreads the points and does less for your rank. Hence why I'm 45K with 115 kills and your 50K with over a thousand and a better KD. My only point, through all this, is that KD alone means nothing.

And while you're talking about me giving away free intel, you're demonstrating that you don't know what to do with it by not exploring the circumstances of Arduemont's Ishtar and Raven kill, so why should I be concerned?



Yeah because trying to navigate BC with a cell phone is the epitome of a good time .....hence why many chose not to use it. The intel I grab is usually first hand anymore, I really don't care about who killed and with what, because out here you know most of that by their tickers, any question marks are assumed to be alts.

Its been a good while since I had to do anything past a glance for any reason except recruitment.


Something being difficult to navigate on a cell phone does not by virtue of being difficult to navigate on a sub-par computing device a bad application make.

I do all my EVE stuff on a PC. If I'm not near my PC, it's because I'm out with friends/at work/at uni and I have my priorities in order.

So... still no issues here.


You are still trying to defend battleclinic? Holy crap, do you own the domain or something?