EVE General Discussion

I make it pretty clear I have no idea why someone would want to do that, just like I have no idea why someone would want to bring up their gun collection and tell the internet about their familial ties.

I was part of -well, I won't bore you with irrelevant information.

I have done high sec, low sec, NPC null, SOV, and wormhole.

Low-sec is **** for mission runners outside of "owning" a L5 Mission hub. Mining is great if you can hold down several systems with POSes and park a rorq for max bonuses. Before the changes to T2 production it was great for moons. Now, you fight over Merc/Plat, and if you run T2 production some of the other highly relevant moons. Without moons you can average 200-400m a day as a miner without sites/C1-C3 WHs to farm. Site Running 2 systems can run you anywhere from 700m+ in a day down to 50m before you are belt ratting.

NPC Space - Level 4 agents in good Pirate NPC space is riddled with other farmers who more then likely want to kill you. Higher risk with for higher (LP) rewards then high sec.
-Anoms/Signatures: Blah blah blah, typical null information. 50m-700m+ a day in a single system.

Sov Space - Completely upgraded Constant sanctums with a ratting carrier. 10 min per Sanctum, 50-75m per sanctum depending on loot/salvage (if you bother.) Producing 300-450m/hr. 2.7b/day (6 hour ratting period).

High Sec - Level 4 missions generate anywhere from 10m in turn in rewards, depending on mission generates anywhere from 10-45m per mission. Soloable in a decently, non-expensive, typhoon. Typhoon is replaced after 3 missions. So 120-330m/hr (not including LP) so 720m - 1.98b/6hr period (again LP not included)

WH - meh, just stupid amounts of isk in C5/C6 with lots of risk.

Ontop of all of this; in high sec if you are T2 fitted, you have less chance of losing your ship to a gank where as in lowsec/nullsec. I look for mission/site running ships to shoot on a daily. Bad news with high sec is you generally have to go find somewhere else to mission run, or fight during a wardec.

The higher the risk, the higher the reward.

Sov changes by the end of 2014 isn't such a bad timeframe. Maybe the plan is to fix life and living in null sec for the summer and then fix sov warefare for winter? It could happen.

Why fix the sov system if theres still no reason to live in 8 of 10 null sec systems?

^^: Still doesn't address the point that it removes content because it removes the situation where each group gets to choose its engagement time. The attacker gets to decide when the first fight occurs and the defender gets to decide when the second fight occurs. It also punishes smaller groups that will not have the TZ coverage. Its a try though good try.



That is basically what we have already.



Trial accounts get to see a sample of everything the changes I suggested don't change that. The same style argument is what I was referencing with highsec it literally is "you can't change highsec it will hurt the newbees" which isn't true, the ice changes didn't.

The second point you reference ~nerfing highsec is the end of the world and it will never be profitable again~, yeah that's not true either if anything industry will be more profitable after the changes because it will remove some of the riskless content from it. No more hiding in an NPC corp and having access to 50+ slots within two jumps of you. Oh yeah lets compare that to nullsec industry, where the system of Sobaseki has more slots than all of Deklein combined.

The thing that has been referenced time and time again to keeping newbees in the game is finding a group of people that are fun to hang around with. Encouraging players to form their own groups instead of remaining alone in an NPC corp with a multi system local channel is a good thing. Discouraging NPC corp membership is the way to do this because they have pretty much just become refuges for risk averse older players. Which is not what they were intended for.

That is another idea that has been passed around, newbees remain in the academy corp for a period of one year subscribed and after that get dumped into the npc corp that is involved in their FW. That means that for one year subscribed anyone can drop corp and be in the invulnerable npc corp but, vets that have been around forever don't get that shield.

some of us like a little bit of pew after we are done carebearing for the day

The classical highsec argument ~you want to force people to pvp~, everything you do in this game is pvp. So there is no avoiding it and there is no forcing people into it. You cannot force someone into something that they are already in.

There would be nothing stopping those people from avoiding as much direct pvp as possible by forming a player corporation. Of course that corporation would be vulnerable to war and a player corporation in the opposing FW could go after that person more easily if they so chose to. It adds more consequences to actions.

For example you're a mission runner in the FW NPC corp and you post on the forums a huge rant about someone ninja salvaging from you. You throw a huge ~highsec tantrum~ and demand CCP nerf everything you hate. So this opposing FW player corporation hunts you down and kills you.

I'm okay with the shield, I just don't want them in the same corp chat as the newer players making them all bitter before they even start.

We're kind of stuck in a catch-22 right now. We do have people making big, sweeping suggestions on what to do with sov and null-sec - some of these ideas are good, others aren't so much. However the troubling issue is that rather than bite the bullet and move forward with them, CCP are absolutely terrified of making any changes beyond little stat tweaks (more factory slots in outposts, woop woop).

I've tried to help break out of this cycle by proposing a package of changes in Digin's thread that instead focuses on one aspect of sovereignty. These changes address many common complaints about sov warfare (making it easier to understand, reducing structure grind) in a way that is small enough to be handled and tested within one expansion cycle. The idea is to modify existing game mechanics in a way that doesn't break everything else connected to it.

Once implemented, CCP are then free to come back and look at other aspects of null-sec in similarly manageable chunks. They can then follow up by overhauling other components, such as:

• What factors cause sov levels to rise (such as player activity in local, producing items nearby, etc)
• Income rebalance - how ratting, anomalies, mining, PI and other activities interact with sov.
• Taxation - how alliances gather income from their territory
• Upgradability - what improvements can be made by owners of territory to leave their mark on their space
• Objectives - what reasons do people have to take sov?

There's no reason why sovereignty can't be broken down and focused on as one aspect at a time. We didn't have all ships rebalanced at once, V3 textures weren't all done in one expansion, and hell we didn't even get all Captains Quarters in the same patch.

What CCP need to be doing is to stop putting things off out of fear of change, bite off a chunk of the sov system, and chew on it until they're done. Then take the next bite.

The chat thing is a good idea I hadn't considered we don't need people who are bitter and mad that they didn't get their way poisoning the newbees. The shield in its current state I am not okay with, if you want that shield then you need your reward decreased as well. An alternate solution, perhaps shifting those players to a more restricted tax heavy npc corp. An NPC corp that forbids the use of things like freighters and L4 missions.