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Eve Down Under Bombshell: No Sov overhaul until at least Winter 2014

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#161 - 2013-12-02 16:33:57 UTC
Onictus wrote:



Before the NC folded.......so you mean before the Anom income nerf?


According to high sec, no nerf has ever happened in null lol.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#162 - 2013-12-02 16:35:34 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


That is because the "problem" you describe it, does not exist, as null sec , even the very worst area, is vastly more lucrative than any place in high sec.


Prove it.


Prove I am wrong.



Incursions. go troll elsewhere


LOL...incursions don't pay off with escalations and A type sand X type modules plus faction pirate BPC's.
You might want to check my employment history.

I was part of FCON (I apologize for that, though not my doing), and we lived in Pure Blind, parked right on the low sec pipe into it, while we had PL and Darkside gangs rolling down from the SoE station. Our space was terrible tru-sec. I made more money there, before NC folded, than I ever have made in incursions, or any other action in high sec.


Income from drops is tied to how kind the RNG is to you and isn't a good measure of the income potential in an area of space for the average occupant. The fact is that people can make as much or more isk using a single pilot in a fancy pirate BS doing incursions as they can using that same setup grinding anoms in sov null.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#163 - 2013-12-02 16:37:34 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


Income from drops is tied to how kind the RNG is to you and isn't a good measure of the income potential in an area of space for the average occupant. The fact is that people can make as much or more isk using a single pilot in a fancy pirate BS doing incursions as they can using that same setup grinding anoms in sov null.


Who needs a fancy pirate BS?

I don't know of any other game content that allows me to make 120-180 mil an hour flying a Scimitar lol.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#164 - 2013-12-02 16:45:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


Income from drops is tied to how kind the RNG is to you and isn't a good measure of the income potential in an area of space for the average occupant. The fact is that people can make as much or more isk using a single pilot in a fancy pirate BS doing incursions as they can using that same setup grinding anoms in sov null.


Who needs a fancy pirate BS?

I don't know of any other game content that allows me to make 120-180 mil an hour flying a Scimitar lol.


lol this is 100% true, I just used pirate BS as an example since you can use that for earning isk in null.

Also, looking at his corp history he was in null not only before the anom income nerfs but also before the latest plex loot nerfs. Nothing like basing an argument on data that is 2.5 years out of date.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2013-12-02 16:52:48 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:


Income from drops is tied to how kind the RNG is to you and isn't a good measure of the income potential in an area of space for the average occupant. The fact is that people can make as much or more isk using a single pilot in a fancy pirate BS doing incursions as they can using that same setup grinding anoms in sov null.


Who needs a fancy pirate BS?

I don't know of any other game content that allows me to make 120-180 mil an hour flying a Scimitar lol.


lol this is 100% true, I just used pirate BS as an example since you can use that for earning isk in null.

Also, looking at his corp history he was in null not only before the anom income nerfs but also before the latest plex loot nerfs. Nothing like basing an argument on data that is 2.5 years out of date.



Feel free to go through my alliance losses and see what happens to pirate battleships most of the time.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2013-12-02 16:53:45 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
The easiest way to apply a quick fix to nullsec would be nerfing highsec. Remove station slots from NPC corp members, reduce the amount of highsec slots to the same amount available to unupgraded outposts, and only allow station slot access to people who have offices there. The rest of highsec production/research can be switched to POS. That would make production/research more viable for nullsec and can be scaled so production is worth doing in lowsec.

It also adds content to highsec as wardecs will be more significant because there are assets people can threaten/defend.

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NickSuccorso
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#167 - 2013-12-02 17:00:26 UTC
I think think it is sad that CCP won't be dealing with sov until 2014. Honestly, there will be no point then. No matter how heroic, N3 and PL won't be able to hold out until then. The CFC and their massive federation of blue will hold all of null sec by the summer. For the first time in Eve all of 0.0 will be controlled by a single entity...

At that point does it even matter what changes CCP introduces?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2013-12-02 17:14:01 UTC
NickSuccorso wrote:
I think think it is sad that CCP won't be dealing with sov until 2014. Honestly, there will be no point then. No matter how heroic, N3 and PL won't be able to hold out until then. The CFC and their massive federation of blue will hold all of null sec by the summer. For the first time in Eve all of 0.0 will be controlled by a single entity...

At that point does it even matter what changes CCP introduces?


Fun fact, you do understand that N3 hold nearly 50% more regions than the CFC....in fact they hold more between them and their renters than CFC, DTF, Stainwagon and CVA combined.....literally half of the SOV regions in the game.

...but yeah they are going to get stomped, however, I wouldn't put money on a CFC homogeny, as usual there will be a power vacuum and the perhaps someone else can form up and fight for a new region. Everything moves around and the corps from the defeated alliance(s) will either reform or megre with others.


....and **** grinding 18 regions, hell no.
Deunan Tenephais
#169 - 2013-12-02 17:17:13 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
The easiest way to apply a quick fix to nullsec would be nerfing highsec. Remove station slots from NPC corp members, reduce the amount of highsec slots to the same amount available to unupgraded outposts, and only allow station slot access to people who have offices there. The rest of highsec production/research can be switched to POS. That would make production/research more viable for nullsec and can be scaled so production is worth doing in lowsec.

It also adds content to highsec as wardecs will be more significant because there are assets people can threaten/defend.

No, the problem is that null sec is considered crap by its inhabitants, not that high-sec is superb.
Basicaly null has an underpowered potential which make high look overpowered, but if high is nerfed then both will be UP and it won't change things, only that highseccers will be REALLY angry at nullseccers.

The good answer is to give null better options and goals to work for, not to fubar high, else the highseccers and especially the newbies would find the game crappy and not stay on Eve.

NickSuccorso wrote:
At that point does it even matter what changes CCP introduces?

If CCP send in the Jovian Fleet, then yes.
Dextrome Thorphan
#170 - 2013-12-02 17:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
Abrazzar wrote:
Let's build stargates! To new systems! With the same old boring and pointless sov system!


But there's so many features that need to be finished..... POS, overview settings, war decs, sov system, FW system, WiS, Dust, etc.... It's just what CCP does best; build up lots of hype over a new feature, then release that feature half-finished and then never finish it.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2013-12-02 17:35:03 UTC
Deunan Tenephais wrote:

No, the problem is that null sec is considered crap by its inhabitants, not that high-sec is superb.
Basicaly null has an underpowered potential which make high look overpowered, but if high is nerfed then both will be UP and it won't change things, only that highseccers will be REALLY angry at nullseccers.

The good answer is to give null better options and goals to work for, not to fubar high, else the highseccers and especially the newbies would find the game crappy and not stay on Eve.


Except that wouldn't fubar highsec, it would be a nerf to NPCs which are currently better than player made constructions in nullsec. Nerfing highsec does not translate to harming newbees either.

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Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#172 - 2013-12-02 17:39:56 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
The easiest way to apply a quick fix to nullsec would be nerfing highsec. Remove station slots from NPC corp members, reduce the amount of highsec slots to the same amount available to unupgraded outposts, and only allow station slot access to people who have offices there. The rest of highsec production/research can be switched to POS. That would make production/research more viable for nullsec and can be scaled so production is worth doing in lowsec.

It also adds content to highsec as wardecs will be more significant because there are assets people can threaten/defend.


Bad idea.

All it would do would increase the cost of ships and mods, which would decrease the amount of pew-pew and PvP in general. Not good.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2013-12-02 17:44:44 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
The easiest way to apply a quick fix to nullsec would be nerfing highsec. Remove station slots from NPC corp members, reduce the amount of highsec slots to the same amount available to unupgraded outposts, and only allow station slot access to people who have offices there. The rest of highsec production/research can be switched to POS. That would make production/research more viable for nullsec and can be scaled so production is worth doing in lowsec.

It also adds content to highsec as wardecs will be more significant because there are assets people can threaten/defend.


Bad idea.

All it would do would increase the cost of ships and mods, which would decrease the amount of pew-pew and PvP in general. Not good.


It decreases player dependence on NPCs and increases player interaction. It makes industry in nullsec/lowsec lucrative and provides a conflict driver. The same argument was said of the ice changes and there haven't been deleterious effects from the changes. The resistance to this idea is people being unwilling to change and highsec refusing to give up anything for the good of them game then throwing a huge tantrum over the thought of change.

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Good Posting
Doomheim
#174 - 2013-12-02 17:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Good Posting
Null sec income is fine. The problem (for people with only combat skills like me -2 chars here, main and falcon-) comes when you have to attend to ops all day everyday. Pressing F1 and clicking pap links is all what i did when i was in sov warfare. I believe i lost a few brain cells but now i'm ok. I still live in null but in npc regions, for obvious docking reasons (repairs, buy nanite paste, sell stuff... etc).

I didn't need to attack hi seccers, i didn't whine in forums. I right clicked on my name and selected the "leave corp" option to feel free again. Also, it is possible to live alone in EVE. Just me with my imagination and the stars. I don't need to go everywhere in company like a girl with her friends to the bathroom.

I am a man with his own little corp that enjoys playing EVE and i have no complaints. You could say i'm a happy customer.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#175 - 2013-12-02 17:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
NickSuccorso wrote:
I think think it is sad that CCP won't be dealing with sov until 2014. Honestly, there will be no point then. No matter how heroic, N3 and PL won't be able to hold out until then. The CFC and their massive federation of blue will hold all of null sec by the summer. For the first time in Eve all of 0.0 will be controlled by a single entity...

At that point does it even matter what changes CCP introduces?


Two or one, not much of a difference to the vast majority of the games population that wrote off SoV as something they won't waste their time with.

La Nariz wrote:
The easiest way to apply a quick fix to nullsec would be nerfing highsec. Remove station slots from NPC corp members, reduce the amount of highsec slots to the same amount available to unupgraded outposts, and only allow station slot access to people who have offices there. The rest of highsec production/research can be switched to POS. That would make production/research more viable for nullsec and can be scaled so production is worth doing in lowsec.

It also adds content to highsec as wardecs will be more significant because there are assets people can threaten/defend.


I'll have some of what you're smoking.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2013-12-02 17:54:54 UTC
This is exactly what I am talking about, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec and leave it in terrible shambles but, any attempt to bring highsec in line is resisted with huge tantrums.

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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#177 - 2013-12-02 18:01:31 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
This is exactly what I am talking about, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec and leave it in terrible shambles but, any attempt to bring highsec in line is resisted with huge tantrums.




If nullsec is so bad, why are people paying so much ISK to rent space there?

What are these renters doing out there? Do they rent space, put up a POS, and then it's to the forums to complain about nullsec being nerfed?

Or are they bearing it up just like they would do in highsec, only pay the rent and risk it in nullsec for... what reason?

Would that be more ISK?

Is the goon rental program not going well? Will more goodies mean more profit renting out space? Will space be rented out that is not normally rented out, or will it become possible to raise the rent?


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2013-12-02 18:03:05 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
This is exactly what I am talking about, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec and leave it in terrible shambles but, any attempt to bring highsec in line is resisted with huge tantrums.




If nullsec is so bad, why are people paying so much ISK to rent space there?

What are these renters doing out there? Do they rent space, put up a POS, and then it's to the forums to complain about nullsec being nerfed?

Or are they bearing it up just like they would do in highsec, only pay the rent and risk it in nullsec for... what reason?

Would that be more ISK?

Is the goon rental program not going well? Will more goodies mean more profit renting out space? Will space be rented out that is not normally rented out, or will it become possible to raise the rent?




Not a clue, I certainly wouldn't do it. Maybe if I brought up my gun collection and my affections for family members I would understand.

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Deunan Tenephais
#179 - 2013-12-02 18:03:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Deunan Tenephais
La Nariz wrote:
Except that wouldn't fubar highsec, it would be a nerf to NPCs which are currently better than player made constructions in nullsec. Nerfing highsec does not translate to harming newbees either.

Of course it would harm newbies, most stay in high sec at least for their trial period, they will compare the price of things to their income, and buying anything relevant will seem so far-fetched it will be disheartening.
Plus it does not make sense for centuries old empires to not have better production capacities than under populated teams of rag tag pirates, at least until these pirates do not enhance these capacities to the empires' level through sheer hard work.

La Nariz wrote:
This is exactly what I am talking about, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec and leave it in terrible shambles but, any attempt to bring highsec in line is resisted with huge tantrums.

Null sec has been improved with odyssey, what with null sec ore having tritanium and pyerite now ?
True amount and not trace amount anymore, at least.

That's why I'd rather see null sec have better available structures as long as the prices are not made irrelevant by badly thought requirements.
Better upgrade null to high level than downgrade high to null level.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2013-12-02 18:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Except that wouldn't fubar highsec, it would be a nerf to NPCs which are currently better than player made constructions in nullsec. Nerfing highsec does not translate to harming newbees either.

Of course it would harm newbies, most stay in high sec at least for their trial period, they will compare the price of things to their income, and buying anything relevant will seem so far-fetched it will be disheartening.
Plus it does not make sense for centuries old empires to not have better production capacities than under populated teams of rag tag pirates, at least until these pirates do not enhance these capacities to the empires' level through sheer hard work.

La Nariz wrote:
This is exactly what I am talking about, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec and leave it in terrible shambles but, any attempt to bring highsec in line is resisted with huge tantrums.

Null sec has been improved with odyssey, what with null sec ore having tritanium and pyerite now ?

That's why I'd rather see null sec have better available structures as long as the prices are not made irrelevant by badly thought requirements.
Better upgrade null to high level than downgrade high to null level.


So you are for power creep then, ~buff null don't nerf high~. EVE lore should have no place in game balance and instead should be crafted around the game design. For example if we apply ~EVE lore should make sense~ then there should be no missions or pirates in highsec as CONCORD would have all that handled themselves.

E: The other argument ~newbees will see prices and despair~ this is the same argument that was raised against the ice changed and it didn't happen. It won't happen this time either. The people that get the short end of the stick are the NPC corp members, as they should, they enjoy the most safety so they should have the least reward potential.

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