These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Petition: Free us from these gates, CCP. Freeeeedommmmm!!!!!1!!!

First post
Author
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#21 - 2011-11-12 08:28:54 UTC
Andski wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Andski wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
(get rid of local too in 0.0 and it will be the ends of the reign of the bots).


That is not a solution to bots.



Tell me then. What would be the solution? I know that goons don't bot, so you can be more constructive.



PvE content that isn't entirely predictable and cannot be easily automated, for one. Incursions were a good start.

Changing local channels in 0.0 isn't a solution to botting, and only idiots say it is.



I have observed that in every discussion about local and 0.0, there is just as much gained and lost for both sides of an "offender/defender" equation. To simply say that idiots support it does not make a good argument.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2011-11-12 09:22:55 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Flashrain
Dragon.
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2011-11-12 18:05:57 UTC
I like this idea for ease of movement. But the pvp points are good too - the stargates are there to provide a choke point.

The best of both worlds solution is to implement this "Trans-warp Drive" with a variety of penalties:

1. Show arrival point visible anywhere from the entire system - like cyno generation.
2. On arrival, warp scramble for a set duration proportional to mass x distance traveled, sufficient for someone to come and tackle you.
3. Capacitor dependent, to prevent quick successive jumps.
4. Should not be instant - the ship should accelerate and stay in warp until arrival.



Benefits:
1. Less time wasted through traveling.
2. More time spent doing fun things.
3. Less lazy pvp camping gates with afk alts boosting.
4. More ganks from the automatic warp scrambling.
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2011-11-13 09:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbie D0ll
Flashrain wrote:
I like this idea for ease of movement. But the pvp points are good too - the stargates are there to provide a choke point.

The best of both worlds solution is to implement this "Trans-warp Drive" with a variety of penalties:


THREAD HIJACK TIME!!
new idea, transwarp drive

  • comes in three flavors cruiser, battleship, and industrial ship
  • frigates and destroyers are too small to fit such drives so armies of suicide thrashers don't attack you from nowhere except for covert ops ships but at a price
  • tech 2 industrial ships can equip one with similar penalty except
  • it is a lowslot module and has similar penalties to equipping a micro-warp drive except it also decreases cargo-room space by 50% and cannot be off-lined nor removed in space
  • 30 seconds to 30 minutes before the ship arrives in system, a signature appears that can be scanned with onboard scanner but you end up 30-70 km away, if you use probes you can warp to 0
  • black ops and covert ops ships also have arrival signatures but have to be scanned down with combat probes
  • after a successful jump the ship must wait for the warp drive and reactor to recover to resume normal activities and no mods can be activated during this time nor can normal warp be achieved except for covert ops cloaks
  • the jumping mechanic can be similar to the way ships with jump drive work in which they need 95% capacitor to begin a jump and cannot jump out of bubbles, or while overcome by warp scramblers (warp stabs will work to counteract this)
  • the POS module System scanning array will notify everyone in system and blue to the pos owners will be notified AND will see the jump in point on their overview and will be able to warp to 0 just like a cyno
  • all capital ships have this by default, except everyone in system will be notified when one jumps in
  • all ships will be incapacitated until capacitor returns to 95% this means you can drop a nuet on them and they won't be able to return to normal functions


did i include enough penalties to it yet?

and fu forums for trying to eat my post
Adunh Slavy
#25 - 2011-11-13 13:26:29 UTC
I do agree that gates need to go away, I'm not fond of this particular idea of how to do it, but gates defiantly suck and hold the game back.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Falrec
Dremor Engineering inc.
#26 - 2011-11-13 15:04:10 UTC
1:

- comes in three flavors cruiser, battleship, and industrial ship
frigates and destroyers are too small to fit such drives so armies of suicide thrashers don't attack you from nowhere except for covert ops ships but at a price


Yes, but...
It would be better to give only the ability to BC and upper and industrial vessels. Why should we protect against suicide Trasher gang if a suicide Stabber gang or a Vagabond gang can do the same? Let the ability to jump to heavy ships.

2:

- tech 2 industrial ships can equip one with similar penalty except


No.
Tech2 Industrial ship have already the ability to fit a cov-ops clacking device, or have a bonus to warp strength, the don't need another bonus.

3:

- it is a lowslot module and has similar penalties to equipping a micro-warp drive except it also decreases cargo-room space by 50% and cannot be off-lined nor removed in space

I do not agree at all
First, it would penalize the ship armor, in addition, the mentioned penalties are too big. Can be as a rig, with a increased signature radius or less in the structure HP, or can be mounted in series, as the jump-drive on the capital ships.

4:

30 seconds to 30 minutes before the ship arrives in system, a signature appears that can be scanned with inboard scanner but you end up 30-70 km away, if you use probes you can warp to 0


Yes, But...
30min is too long. 30s to 5 min will be better.
In addition, the jump-in signatures should be probed only by probes combat, it would add interest to a cov-ops pilot.

5:

- black ops and covert ops ships also have arrival signatures but have to be scanned down with combat probes


No
-Cloaked vessel jump-out signature can't be found
-Black Ops have already a jump-drive, they don't need a second jump-drive. It is imperative to remove one of them.


6:

- after a successful jump the ship must wait for the warp drive and reactor to recover to resume normal activities and no mods can be activated during this time nor can normal warp be achieved except for covert ops cloaks

What? Shocked Are you mad? Do you want to leave the ships defenseless under the pretext they just jump in? reduce their capacitor to 30% or 40% would be sufficient.


7:

- the jumping mechanic can be similar to the way ships with jump drive work in which they need 95% capacitor to begin a jump and cannot jump out of bubbles, or while overcome by warp scramblers (warp stabs will work to counteract this)

Yes but...
Only if there is a skill, like the JumpDrive to reduce the level of capacitor required at each jump, while maintaining an adequate level of capacitor after the jump (30% to 40% of maximum capacity, for example), and the jump uses of isotopes.
Would it be possible to reduce the prerequisites skill "Jump Drive Calibration", "Jump Drive Operation" and "Jump Fuel Conservation", by extending their bonus transwarp drive, and removing "drive" their name.
To give it this:
> Jump Calibration (6x): Each skill level grants a 25% increase in maximum jump range. Prerequisite: Operation Jump lvl4
> Operation Jump (4x): Each skill level capacitor Reduce the Need of Initiating a jump by 5%. Prerequisites: Warp Drive Operation lvl 4, lvl 3 Navigation (, Science lvl 3?)
> Jump Fuel Conservation (6x): 10% reduction in fuel Consumption Amount for jump drive operation per light year per skill level. Prerequisite: Operation Jump lvl4

8:

- the POS module System scanning array will notify everyone in system and blue to the pos owners will be notified AND will see the jump in point on their overview and will be able to warp to 0 just like a cyno

Yes, for the notification, but I do not agree with an auto-scanning array.

9:

- all capital ships have this by default, except everyone in system will be notified when one jumps in


No, hell, NO! Capital ships are not to be able to jump in anywhere without a cyno.

10:

- all ships will be incapacitated until capacitor returns to 95% this means you can drop a nuet on them and they won't be able to return to normal functions


Same as 6.
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-11-13 21:06:00 UTC
Falrec wrote:

and this is why we have forums so we can exchange words and ideas
Mirak Nijoba
Gamers Corner
#28 - 2011-11-13 21:51:07 UTC
Do any of you people actually play this game?

Warp Recalibration, Remove Gates...

Basically what your saying is, force everyone to already have the location or go no where... Which then also takes it into one large system.... Which would crash eve.

Oh also get a Cyno... It's the same basic thing. ^_^ or... get a cloak ship... or biomass now because you don't know how to play obviously.

Warp Recalibration... Really... so you want to ask CCP to force a death to happen in the 99% of PVP Fights that happen in eve???

Get a Warp Scram / Pointer... Get in Range they can't warp out... unless they brought a WCS. Then they bested you...

Oh and we do have a Time to warp modifier already.... It's called align time.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#29 - 2011-11-13 21:53:25 UTC
I left out details on how the mechanics should be because the idea is so far away from the present structure it's hard to see it implemented and thus hard to envision how.


I would wager that the bigger the ship, the bigger the warp. Whether it's a Star Trek style warp: Set course and engage, or a Star Wars type warp where the ship computer has to take time to dial in and prevent flying into a star and such, the common approach of EvE is to have "cost for benefit". Presently the cost for a JF or JB network is to be a large organization with the resources and ISK to acquire and maintain such advanced means of travel.

It would be interesting to see a a Titan cross all of New Eden in one jump, for example, or if perchance a certain kind of fuel is needed to perform such jumps, a ship having enough storage.


Whatever the case, I would insist that opening up space even a little bit for more players would jazz things up considerably and hope that CCP makes some consideration in the future.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Hecchh
South Side Salvage and Scrap
#30 - 2011-11-20 20:01:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hecchh
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'll take this a small step further, and forgive me if it derails your thread slightly.

Instead of making travel easier what EVE could really use is for travel to be made more challenging.

I know it seems counter intuitive to you, but travel is far too easy and far too boring as it stands now.

The highway systems in place now were put there originally to ease server load in certain area's, and were great when introduced, but we are now at a point where it would be beneficial to the entire player base for the different regions of EVE to be more isolated from each other.

Wouldn't it be nice to NOT have to run to Jita all the time, if the trade hub a few jumps away developed into a much more competitive entity because most of the trade in your area was done there instead?



I think the underlying issue of this thread is caused by a huge tension between travel-for-pvp and travel-for-logistics, and I think the solution is to minimize the need to travel for logistics.

Most of the mind-numbing traveling I do in this game is for logistics purposes: hauling goods, fitting ships, fetching skillbooks, opps I put a 1MN AB on my BC, good grief I’m sick of it. We want instant travel.

On the other hand, don’t you hate it when your near-defeated target warps away? Instant travel promotes the huge fleet play-style and all kinds of crazy modules like scramblers and webbers. I believe that once an ‘enemy’ fleet appears on the radar, people would prefer movement abilities similar to a WWII naval action. In my opinion, the travel mechanics caused by the need to travel-for-logistics has seriously detracted from PvP.

I suggest you re-design travel to optimize for PvP, and then deal with logistics another way. Most aspects of industry is either a grind or brain-dead (e.g. mining and hauling) and can be done easily by a bot – why is that, do you suppose? It’s because we are doing RTS-style resource gathering in the first person. Yes, we are all Warcraft peons hauling gold from the mine back to the base over and over.

So why isn’t industry done in the third person - the game has already introduced this in a very limited fashion (PI). If you extend that notion, the need to travel can be almost entirely eliminated except for PvP both tactical and strategic. We should all have fleets of various programmable bots to haul for us and do other chores. You can dream up all kinds of aggro rules for killing bots until you find a good balance.
SehrGute
Hunters of capsuleers
#31 - 2011-11-20 22:03:04 UTC
I would love to see this ingame, would make eve interesting, and reduce the barrier between high-low sec, and remove lazy gate campes. And I don't think anyone would disagree that gate travel is unfair for the small guy. Also that pvp would die is BS. there will be points of interest, specially around controlling resources. All this would do is open up travel for all. But on the other hand, this will never happen, sins the gate system is so big part of the game that ccp would newer even consider this unless somewhere among 80% of the players would want this.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#32 - 2011-11-21 05:08:27 UTC
No.

I don't want to fly my interweb spaceboats for a whole week just to get to a system.

kthanx.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#33 - 2011-11-21 08:06:48 UTC
One of the other problems with removing the gates in EVE (other than breaking about half of the game mechanics and making combat few and far between) is that it would destroy EVE from a story line perspective.

The entire point of EVE is the parallel galaxy of New Eden.

New Eden was discovered by scientists and explorers jumping through a Worm Hole.

It was then established AS New Eden by the use of a MASSIVE warp jump gate that took hundreds of years to build and was designed to basically keep the Worm Hole open. The gate was then destroyed by the collapsing Worm Hole and stranded those within New Eden forever and ever. The peoples of New Eden became increasingly hermitous and slowly started becoming extinct.

The main thing that saved the four races was...

The STAR GATE NETWORK.

It reconnected the four races and even the Jovians and brought the denizens of this oddball galaxy back from the brink of oblivion.

So in all reality...

You can't eliminate the star gates BECAUSE the story line immediately collapses in on itself from the contradiction and the entire game is broken from the inside out.

The star gate network is the only thing holding the fabric of the galaxy together. Without it the peoples of New Eden will simply cease to be after a few thousand years...

... like they almost did once before.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#34 - 2011-11-21 08:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SGT FUNYOUN
And before you say something like...

"well the ships with jump drives can jump 5 systems with no problem so jump gates are useless because of the jump drives."

First off:

The jump drives ARE mini star gates. They were designed USING the discoveries of star gate experimentation. The reason why only huge CAPITAL ships could possibly have them...

Is because the Jump Drive; like a star gate (which uses the same technology) is MAAASSSIIVE. It takes a MAAAAASSSIIVE amount of fuel to make it function, just like a star gate. You would not be able to fit it onto anything smaller than a capital because a star gate and jump drive are basically building miniature worm holes.

To rip the very fabric of space and time takes ALOT of power. A tiny ship the size of a volvo could NEVER have enough power to create a worm hole. It would not make ANY sense from a basic laws of physics stand point.

Removing Star Gates would destroy EVE simply because it would never happen in real life... mankind would build star gates in real life if we could crack how worm holes work and how to produce them.

Secondly:

Ever actually LOOK at the 3-D map of New Eden? Ever notice how FAR the star gates can fling you? A jump drive only throws you 5 systems... a gate can toss you halfway across the galaxy.
Jaketh Ivanes
Rigorous Rivals
#35 - 2011-11-21 11:05:31 UTC
I've suggested something like this a long time ago, but it is a major game change so would need a lot of thought and testing.

I don't think combat would die out, it would just move to other locations in a system and away from the gates. Which I think is a good thing, but that is just my oppinion Smile
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2011-11-21 12:03:44 UTC
In principal I agree with the idea that the concept of all travel being through easily campable gates and having unstoppable warps to celestial objects is the cause of a lot of problems in Eve, but I recognize that there's too much other gameplay built on these elements to change it now. It'd be like doing surgery in an effort to replace someone's skeleton, very very messy.

But I think the real problem in Eve (and one that is easier to fix) is a lack of visibility. We can only see things if they're within a few hundred kilometers of our ship, and we have very limited scanner probes and a crappy 14au directional scanner that shows you what is in a particular direction. You can't see anything in other starsystems and the only way you can find out if something isn't camped is to send something cheap in to scout for you, to the point where if you want to travel in anything bigger than a cruiser you have to have another account to scout for you. On top of all that we have cloaking devices. You are really very blind in this game.

Giving players more tools for seeing and warping to other ships at greater distances could go a long way to overcoming the problems created by having all travel based on chokepoints... and by problems I mean blueballs and boredom.

How about a kind of scan probe that you can leave in another starsystem and recieve information from? Or a probe that you can send through a gate or wormhole to see what's waiting for you on the other side. Sure it'd mean that gatecamps are less effective, but if you had the tools to actually FIND ships that are in a system with you, you wouldn't have to rely on camping so much. Camping is boring, hunting people down in system sounds like far more fun.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#37 - 2011-11-21 12:09:35 UTC
Sub petition:

Free me from cynos!

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-11-21 18:19:42 UTC
if you were allowed to create your own wormholes to travel from A to B - why not - then add a chance that sleepers will intercept you on your way. that makes this features something you will consider using carefully - or use it on purpose...

more chance-based events!

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#39 - 2011-11-21 18:27:46 UTC
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
And before you say something like...

"well the ships with jump drives can jump 5 systems with no problem so jump gates are useless because of the jump drives."

First off:

The jump drives ARE mini star gates. They were designed USING the discoveries of star gate experimentation. The reason why only huge CAPITAL ships could possibly have them...

Is because the Jump Drive; like a star gate (which uses the same technology) is MAAASSSIIVE. It takes a MAAAAASSSIIVE amount of fuel to make it function, just like a star gate. You would not be able to fit it onto anything smaller than a capital because a star gate and jump drive are basically building miniature worm holes.

To rip the very fabric of space and time takes ALOT of power. A tiny ship the size of a volvo could NEVER have enough power to create a worm hole. It would not make ANY sense from a basic laws of physics stand point.

Removing Star Gates would destroy EVE simply because it would never happen in real life... mankind would build star gates in real life if we could crack how worm holes work and how to produce them.

Secondly:

Ever actually LOOK at the 3-D map of New Eden? Ever notice how FAR the star gates can fling you? A jump drive only throws you 5 systems... a gate can toss you halfway across the galaxy.




Perhaps but being able to blow up a ship right next to you without damage would never happen in RL either.

Based on the "it would never happen in real life" approach, almost all Science Fiction would have to be scrapped.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#40 - 2011-11-22 23:22:12 UTC
To give you all an example, and probably why all casual players should support this idea, word is out that Chribba's SOV is threatened, but who has time for the traveling to that system, the gank pipelines (and likely the bubble camps devised by those who also know of this)?

Perchance the "Great Wall of Carebear" could also be "The Great Wall of Casual"?

That we can train SP without being online is a selling point for many players, whereas other MMOs have the "he who is most neckbearded wins". I would love to get involved in battles, mess around in 0.0, and all that good stuff, but I am not a stay-at-home son. There's bills to pay.


Would it be bad for the game if anybody could warp anywhere? Who suffers most, the people sucking moon goo 23/7 safely ensconced deep into 0.0?

And I am not sitting here begging for change - I already trespass in 0.0 a lot, using wormholes to get around, and have been in some systems for weeks without seeing anybody else.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Previous page123Next page