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CNR vs Rubicon Golem
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-12-01 21:20:17 UTC
My main thing was the Golem doesn't seem any better than the cruise missile CNR

If you use cruise missiles on the Golem you get the same DPS. From this it doesn't seem to be worth it to fly a cruise Golem.



So this leaves us with torps.

If you use Rage torps you get an extra 312 DPS. To me the biggest problem is the 45km range. How much DPS do you lose burning to within range.

Wait there's Javelin torpedos... You get 80km range but lose 108 DPS over the CNR. Sad



The Golem replaces the CNR's explosion radius bonus with an explosion velocity bonus. I'm not sure how this effects applied DPS. Also the Golem has a target painter bonus. This is needed with Rage torpedos but not really needed for a cruise CNR so again not really better.


Is the Golem any better than the CNR for missions and if so why? The only thing I could see is if you have a mission where all NPC's are within the 45km range of Rage torpedos. Other than that the CNR seems to be just as good for half the price.

I don't fly a Golem and would love for someone to correct my ideas here since I want one mainly because it looks much better than the CNR. Big smile
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#62 - 2013-12-01 21:53:34 UTC
Anytime you'd like to see why come to Osmon, we can mission together. First off having a velocity explosion radius bonus with a TP bonus does alot more then the CNRs one bonus. Making a ship 50% higher sign radius + doing more damage if it's moving is huge. And most have 2 or 3 TPs. And yes anything to help sign radius for Jav Torps or Fury cruise does help. Even with cruise you can usually pop frigates, and cruise in one or 2 shots, BS 3 to 4. also you have more room to do more. a CNR doesn't do more DPS then a golem, just so you know. CNR has 8 launchers, Golem has 4 but with 100% to damage, so they do the same amount of DPS. Golem only has to really fit 3 or 4 med slots for defense, and can fit easy 2 or 3 TPs helping it's TP bonus. Lows can all go to BCUs. And even if the CNR adds a 5th BDU the Penalty for using it makes it close to worth less. Also being immuned ro Ewar and being able to MJD more often gives a Golem other advances. The Golem also has T2 resist, which is a pretty big help. Also having 4 extra highs gives you a chance to add all different things. Most epople that use to use CNRs have moved up to the Golem, not sure why you choose to think the CNR is better, where even before it wasn't beeter then a Golem, and now it isn't even close to it. Marauders are back on top of PvE, and unless they get nerfed they ill stay there. Again I do L4s for SoF in Osmon, you can come join me anytime and see for yourself. I will admit, the CNR looks a ton better than the Golem now.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-12-01 22:26:19 UTC
Okay Thaddeus I will try it. I wasn't saying the CNR was better. It just seems from stats that they were about the same other than range bonuses that made fitting torps possible on the Golem. And they only had more DPS out to 45km.

I do like the looks of the Golem and the fact that it is T2. I'm not too excited about the limited range of torps. Do you feel it's worth it for me to fit a cruise Golem or I should just bite the bullet and fit torps?
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#64 - 2013-12-01 22:32:48 UTC
IIshira,

You take that back, the golem looks like ****, I want it back like it was! You just go for kicking me right in the balls don't ya haha. I say bring your CNR to Osmon and we can do some missions together, I'dl ike to see how she does anyway, and SoF LP is well worth getting now. You ever end up in Osmon let me know, and we can kill together whahahaha. I wasn't trying to be a ****, well that's a lie I was, but I shouldn't have been haha
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-12-01 23:28:55 UTC
IIshira wrote:


The Golem replaces the CNR's explosion radius bonus with an explosion velocity bonus.


This is not entirely true. The CNR allmost makes up for the ExVel-bonus with the 3rd Rig-slot. If you want to compare the CNR's bonus to the golem, you have to use ExRad vs TP Bonus.

And yeah, from my experience - the golem does marginally less dps because the CNR got the better application against small ships. Golem's TP bonus is totally worth it - it just can't compete totally in my opinion

Anyway, the big + for Golem is the reduced ammo usage ( half the ammo is notable if you use T2 missiles ) and the indestructable tank. You can't just lose a proper golem, unless you're totally afk - the CNR however can't tank the usual "oh ****, I pulled a trigger way to fast" in heavy missions.

It also has utility slots - I kinda like the remote reps for ma drones, or the occassional tractor to loot the damsel (I also have Cloak and MWD fitted, which is omgawesome).

Golem is a very valuable toy for the average mission runner, if you like what it has to offer.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#66 - 2013-12-01 23:52:23 UTC
Quote:
This is not entirely true. The CNR allmost makes up for the ExVel-bonus with the 3rd Rig-slot. If you want to compare the CNR's bonus to the golem, you have to use ExRad vs TP Bonus.

And yeah, from my experience - the golem does marginally less dps because the CNR got the better application against small ships. Golem's TP bonus is totally worth it - it just can't compete totally in my opinion

Anyway, the big + for Golem is the reduced ammo usage ( half the ammo is notable if you use T2 missiles ) and the indestructable tank. You can't just lose a proper golem, unless you're totally afk - the CNR however can't tank the usual "oh ****, I pulled a trigger way to fast" in heavy missions.

It also has utility slots - I kinda like the remote reps for ma drones, or the occassional tractor to loot the damsel (I also have Cloak and MWD fitted, which is omgawesome).

Golem is a very valuable toy for the average mission runner, if you like what it has to offer.







I think you really need to take a look at the Golem again. As TPs are 5secs instead of 10sec now and 50% to 60% to a ships sign radius makes a HUGE difference in killing smaller ships. Just 2 TPs on a golem will pop most frigates and cruises in one shot. I have had no issue with that at all since the patch, not much of one before either, besides the 10sec to TPs. What the Golems TP bonus and velocity radius bonus does for it is pretty nice. The extra rig is nice but the CNR still can't hit as far as a Golem can with Torps, so that gives the Golem another star.

For L4s I'm not sure why you'd need a cloak at all but to each his own. a MWD or MJD can be used if that is your playing style. I rather just sit and rock everything in the room, which in any BS isn't hard at all. I do it in my Kronos, Golem and RS, I haven't ever needed a prop mod for any of them. Only my Tengu and Nighthawk have one.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-12-02 02:10:37 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
IIshira,

You take that back, the golem looks like ****, I want it back like it was! You just go for kicking me right in the balls don't ya haha. I say bring your CNR to Osmon and we can do some missions together, I'dl ike to see how she does anyway, and SoF LP is well worth getting now. You ever end up in Osmon let me know, and we can kill together whahahaha. I wasn't trying to be a ****, well that's a lie I was, but I shouldn't have been haha

Has the Golem look changed? I haven't looked at one till recently because I didn't have the Marauder skill on my Caldari pilot. Right now I just started training it so once I get to 4 I'll have to get one.

You use torps or cruise missiles on your Golem?

I might take you up on your offer once I get the time. I've been so busy lately in RL but I can get on the forms with my phone. Don't feel bad because everyone smack talks in the forums lol.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#68 - 2013-12-02 02:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
IIshira wrote:
My main thing was the Golem doesn't seem any better than the cruise missile CNR

If you use cruise missiles on the Golem you get the same DPS. From this it doesn't seem to be worth it to fly a cruise Golem.



So this leaves us with torps.

If you use Rage torps you get an extra 312 DPS. To me the biggest problem is the 45km range. How much DPS do you lose burning to within range.

Wait there's Javelin torpedos... You get 80km range but lose 108 DPS over the CNR. Sad



The Golem replaces the CNR's explosion radius bonus with an explosion velocity bonus. I'm not sure how this effects applied DPS. Also the Golem has a target painter bonus. This is needed with Rage torpedos but not really needed for a cruise CNR so again not really better.


There might be a reason why people pointed out that the golem needs a extra torp application bonus and a lot more speed instead of what it did get during the marauder rebalance(a pointless uber tank)... Sad

CNR beats the golem both with CMs and Torps if you look for max applied dps(mobility is a massive factor in this with torps).

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#69 - 2013-12-02 02:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Quote:
Has the Golem look changed? I haven't looked at one till recently because I didn't have the Marauder skill on my Caldari pilot. Right now I just started training it so once I get to 4 I'll have to get one.

You use torps or cruise missiles on your Golem?

I might take you up on your offer once I get the time. I've been so busy lately in RL but I can get on the forms with my phone. Don't feel bad because everyone smack talks in the forums lol.




IIshira,

Yea they changed the look of the Golem now sadly. And the CNR doesn't do anymore DPS then the Golem does. Both do 8 launcher DPS and with the TP bonus the Golem rocks anything PvE easy.I don't thin it needs anymore speed or anything else, it'a more then good enough and like all the other Marauders is king of PvE. Not sure where people get this "facts" but when you train up to a Golem you will see what I'm talking about. I'll add you to contacts on my other toon and if you get the time we can do some killin'
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-12-02 03:24:14 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:


Anyway, the big + for Golem is the reduced ammo usage ( half the ammo is notable if you use T2 missiles ) and the indestructable tank. You can't just lose a proper golem, unless you're totally afk - the CNR however can't tank the usual "oh ****, I pulled a trigger way to fast" in heavy missions.



May want to check your CNR fit, I usually full spawn missions just to make them go faster.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-12-02 16:36:05 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Gimme more Cynos wrote:


Anyway, the big + for Golem is the reduced ammo usage ( half the ammo is notable if you use T2 missiles ) and the indestructable tank. You can't just lose a proper golem, unless you're totally afk - the CNR however can't tank the usual "oh ****, I pulled a trigger way to fast" in heavy missions.



May want to check your CNR fit, I usually full spawn missions just to make them go faster.


You might want to check some missions - something like WWC (Sansha site) and/or fully spawned Enemies Abounds (5/5 preferably) - maybe the blood-blockade aswell :)

But you are right - the CNR can ganktank a lot of missions even if you do it wrong - Golem can't be beaten though.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-12-02 16:56:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Gimme more Cynos wrote:


Anyway, the big + for Golem is the reduced ammo usage ( half the ammo is notable if you use T2 missiles ) and the indestructable tank. You can't just lose a proper golem, unless you're totally afk - the CNR however can't tank the usual "oh ****, I pulled a trigger way to fast" in heavy missions.



May want to check your CNR fit, I usually full spawn missions just to make them go faster.


You might want to check some missions - something like WWC (Sansha site) and/or fully spawned Enemies Abounds (5/5 preferably) - maybe the blood-blockade aswell :)

But you are right - the CNR can ganktank a lot of missions even if you do it wrong - Golem can't be beaten though.


I doubt there are many that I haven't tried, besides tank is a lot less important with the get out of jail free card that is the MJD, seriously, MJDs allow all sorts of stupidity to be handled with ease.

"Opps, that group is kinda close" lol MJD BUTAN TO VICTORY there are few missions that can test the tank of a cruise CNR at 140km.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#73 - 2013-12-02 17:15:35 UTC
Golem rocks a CNR in tank and it's ability with a MJD
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-12-02 17:26:55 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Golem rocks a CNR in tank and it's ability with a MJD



You are likely right, but I can't fly one yet. So ze high sec alt is griding away, I think I have like 3 weeks left.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#75 - 2013-12-02 18:00:22 UTC
A CNR isn't a bad boat, it just isn't as good as a Golem. There is no issue using a CNR if you can't use a Golem yet. I just wouldn't ever say it's a better boat, because it isn't. But a till you can fly a Golem, a CNR, or RS, or Nighthawk even are all good picks.