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Serenity sever, another "Rubicon" for EVE itself? sth u and ccp may never know.
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Family Meal
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-12-01 09:55:13 UTC

As you all know that, although CCP said "One Universe"(the Tranquility), there is another parallel universe called Serenity in China. The Tranquility client has different language packs and open to all people in the world(including those who comes from China), while the Serenity client has one language, and almost open to only chinese(you should have a chinese citizen ID number to register).

I will introduce something about this chinese server. The "story" will be long, and may be boring. But I think it is meaningful to compare these two universe, especially the two "sandbox": differnces, and reasons, in a view of global economics(the earth sandbox). I really hope that CCP developers may read this topic, and may reply to some interesting questions.

This topic is mainly about the operation of EVEonline itself.

1 Why there is another universe called Serenity
As far as I know, this is caused by some rules in China. In china, foreign company is not allowed to operate online games directly or independently, and all the game servers should be located in China. So, if CCP want to share EVE with these 1.3b people, another server is necessary. That's how the "Second" Universe born,in the name of a chinese game operation deputy,in 2006(Before Serenity, chinese players play in Tranquility, and it is said that,there was a chinese Tranquility client in the past ). The first deputy is Optic Communications Co., Ltd, the following one is CDC Corporation, and now, is TianCity.

2 Is their universe the same as ours and how many pilots
Almost the same. But they will get some delay in expansions. For instance, Tranquility has been updated to Rubicon, but Serenity is not. There are 8K-13K active pilots in Serenity.

3 The fee to play in Serenity
50 yuan($8.2) a month, and 510 yuan($83.6) a year. Plex is 60 yuan($9.8) for singe, and about 3.6B ISK in market(Yes,3600M ISK)

4 Plex is too expensive in Serenity, Inflation?
Yes,terrible inflation. For example, 1 Raven = 340M ISK(mid price) in Jita(also the economic center in Serenity).1 Tritanium = 14.00 ISK (mid price). 1 Caldari Fuel Block= 35K ISK(mid price).


5 How does this inflation happen?
Many reasons. The mainly one is too many bots. Bots can do almost everything in Serenity: mine, kill rats in belts and anomalies, missions, transportations, even some combat tactics. Bots are almost everywhere, from high-sec to 0.0.
Low PVP intensity is also another reason. Some people may say, chinese just like to farm gold. Well, maybe. Because many ISK selling websites are registered in China(whois information).
There are many bot workshops in Serenity. In high-sec, bots usually mine and do some missions. In 0.0, bots usually kill rats and clear the anomalies. Some high-tec bots use hook and ocr techs,and even have cloud server: they can use cloud to orgnize and share informations(such as alert the enemies). No one knows how many bots in Serenity, but some evidence may give us an imply: Players in Serenity mainly lives in China(+8 tz),so in the deep night, there shouldn't be too many "live" active pilots . According to eve-offline data, every day there are about 3K active pilots in the server during the deep night.
And also, a number of people don't use bots, but they use macro.

6 Bots? So there should be many RMT and bot trader?
Yes. In China, on the largest e-commerce platform Taobao(like ebay), there are 880 "EVE ISK" items, and according to the selling records, more than 15000B(15T) ISK (more than 2000 transactions) are selled in the past 30days(they sell ISK by 100M and call it 1E,1E=100M=1.6yuan=$0.26, 150000E are selled in 30days). Ships such as Titan(about 5K yuan=$820) are not included above.
While in Serenity Jita system, about 300 Plex are selled everyday, that is about 1.08T(1080B) per day.
In the same Taobao website, more then 30 differnt bots are for sale. There are more than 800 transactions in the past 30days. Average price of each bot is about 30yuan=$4.9. One of the most famous bot developer announce that, his bot has more than 1K users and 3K bot pilots.


7 RMT and bots is very common in Serenity?
It is hard to say that everyone involves in RMT or bot, but quite a number of people did.
Family Meal
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-12-01 09:56:49 UTC
8 Where is the chinese game operation deputy? They don't punish RMT players?
Sometimes they did, but not all the time, and even not to all RMT players. The reasons are complex, but in brief, if they really ban all the RMT plays and bots, the Serenity might become into a "GHOST Sever"(only few players can survive).
The history of Serenity leads to this situation. In the early year of the Serenity server, the Optic Communications(OC) didn't operate it well. There were only 2K-3K active pilots in the server. If OC decided to kill all the bots, there would be no one left,and no more incomes. The same happens when the operation deputy changed. CDC also did nothing to bots, untill some players got angry.
CDC had to punished bots, but also worried about some other issues. Lots of bots were running by large cooprations and alliances. If the bots got banned, these alliances might leave the game. At last, every bots got many chances.The first time is only a warning,then banned for 30days, 180days, and forever.
Many bot miners are banned, especially in high-sec.But in 0.0, ISK bots still existed due to protection. When NPC stopped to sell civilian equipments, the inflation came.
But,this is not the end.
When the Tiancity became the deputy last year, some new policies were introduced:
a) any starter will get a gift and 2Million Free Skill Points after register.
b) a very long free-to-play time to all players,about 6 months,from June 2012-Dec 2012
That means, anyone who register a new account, will gain 2Million SP immediately, and can train it for free in the following half year.
In the free-to-play period, the active players reached to amlost 40-50K. But when the payment came, the active players decreased to 8-13K.
But don't forget bots! 2Million SP and long free-to-play time, what a big gift!
There was no doubt that, the bots came back.
Tiancity did want to punish the bots but failed. In a case, Tiancity banned a hundread of accounts belonged to one person, reason was "mining bots". This person, then, came to Shanghai, where the Tiancity coorpation located, with many people(it is said he also hired some lawyers), "siege" the headquarter building of the Tiancity. At last, Tiancity said "it is a mistake", and that person got back all the accounts.
Another case happened after the "siege": someone sell a lot of ISK and got banned, then sued Tiancity.
Although Tiancity tried to maintain orders in Serenity, but it seems that it is going to lose control of the situation.


9 Amazing result: Some facts to reveal the deep reason of RMT in both Tranquility and Serenity. The "firewall" mechanism
Here I will change the viewpoint ,into a more huge sanbox, the global economics.
Let's copy some data from Worldbank database:GNI per capita, Atlas method data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNP.PCAP.CD
In 2012, GNI per captia in China is $5,680. That is almost the average GNI per capita among player in Serenity.
Well, how to calculate that of the players in Tranquility? I got some data here: oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1458477 Country % of subscribers @2008
United States 37.06%
United Kingdom 13,92%
Germany 8,05%
Russia 5,54%
Canada 4.84%
.........
GNI per capita of each is $50,120, $38,250,$44,010,$12,700,$50,970....
I assume the "Others" GNI per capia is $8000.00
Then, the average of the GNI per Tranquility plaers is about $40,000
Here are more datas about the labor time(hours per year), the estimate result is:
players in Tranquility=1800hours
players in Serenity=2000hours

so,we can calculte income per hours
players in Tranquility $22.4/hour
players in Serenity $2.9/hour

lets transfer all the payment into USD/ISK(1USD=6.1CNY) and labor hours, and asume all player's income are same in game(1hour=100M income) we get(Tranquility marked as T*, Serenity mark as S*)

T*fee/year S*fee/year T*Plex S*Plex | T*Plex byISK S*Plex byISK
USD/ISK $131 $83.6 $17.5 $9.8 | 600M 3600M
T*Hours 5.8 3.7 0.8 0.44 6 36
S*Hours 45.2 28.8 6.0 3.2 6 36

Thus we can also get(nominal FX Rate PLEX USD/ISK):
T* 100MISK=$2.92
S* 100MISK=$0.27

Here, we can see a very clear comparative advantage: Chinese bots can earn much more if they came to Tranquility. They does, but not all. Becuse in Serenity, there is a large domestic ISK market.
Why this domestic isk market is too important? Another set of data can explain:
Let's use some stock as numeraire, Raven is good!
T*Raven=160M=$4.67
S*Raven=330M=$0.90

Amazing! For RMT players, Serenity is the best choice, but for ISK sellers, Tranquility is the best one!
However, lots of Serenity RMT players will not change the server, so lots of bots have to stay to meet demand.

Of course, strictly regulations in Tranquility is also necessary, because the cost of bots(software and hardware) is not very expensive.

Anyway,Serenity forms something like a "firewall" to keep Tranquility from more RMT players, and reduces the RMT-ISK supply.According to Taobao records, more than 15000B S*ISK are selled a month in Serenity, that is at least $40,800.If all the S*ISK change into T*ISK in Tranquility, that will be about $438,000 a month,nearly $5.3M a year!
Family Meal
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-12-01 10:02:15 UTC
10 More comparative advantage: Immigrants, producer's surplus & consumer's welfare
Maybe you have notice that, there is another comparative advantage to players in Serenity: Earn PLEX in Tranquility.
A nomal player in Serenity has to pay $9.8(3.2 labor hours) or 30 game hours to earn a S*Plex. Howerver, in Tranquility, a T*Plxex=6 game hours and worth $17.5(6 labor hours). His ingame labur becomes more valuable and save a lot of time, thus he gains something like "producer's surplus " .That's why you can see many chinese immigrants in Tranquility
players in Tranquility also have something like "consumer's welfare" if they immigrate to Serenity, because they can save a lot of real money.Years ago, some russian immigrants land in Serenity and begin their journey.


11 But how do players in Serenity think about Tranquility? Rumors and opinions
The following opinions are very common.
a)One Universe? Joking
They think, since the beginning of Serenity, the time of "One Universe" was over. There are two EVE-onlines,two universes,and two sandboxes in the world. This is "ours", they play as their wish. Anything, including RMT,bot,is all their business and sandbox, not "yours". That is "yours" universe, if you play in that one, "shut up", they don't need your guide.Oh,btw,they still think Serenity should be updated On Time!
b)Language
If Tranquility has chinese client, They will immigrate.They want to play with more people all over the world. But due to language problems, They have to stay here.They cann't read english or anyother foreign languages.
c)Payment
Tranquility is good but too expensive. They don't want to buy Plex in Game.And They also don't know how to pay.
d)network
Network problems.They can hardly connect to Tranquility due to many reseaons.
e)Chinatown
Just culture gap. They have friends here, and almost all players are chinese.
f)loss
They don't know there is another real worldwide server before. They have earn many SP and Assets here.If They immigrate to Tranquility , they will lost all.
g)Plex sellers
They sell Plex in game to earn ISK for PVP."Ships are cheap here"!
h)nationalists and racists
**************************************(aggresive words)

There are also some rumors. I think only CCP knows the truth.
a) EVE is a diplomatic cooperation projects between China and Iceland. So Serenity will forever exist, no matter how many players in the server.(Well, It is true?)
b) Chinese will be discriminated against. Although EULA disallows any kind of racial/sexual discrimination discrimination, this rumor is still very popular. Some version even like this: GMs discriminate against chinese player.
c) One day, two universes will merger into one by servel methods: wormhole, character transfer...
d) Players in Tranquility are more likely to RMT, and their bots are more advanced than ours.So, we are just so so

12 Conflicts between chinese players, another sandbox of two sanboxes.
Such conflicts go on for a very long time, almost can be traced back to 2006.
The "second universe" divided the former "only one" into two pieces, some chinese players in Tranquility couldn't accept it, even nowadays. Briefly, that is, well, hostility.
Chinese players in Tranquility is still a small group, but they have huge ambitions. For many reasons(maybe culture, language, time zone...), they tend to form their own chinese cooprations and alliances. Population is the most valuable resource to them, so they try to recruit new pilots from the players in Serenity - It is very hard to recruit new starters among normal chinese people because EVE is very unpopular there.(They like to play "traditional" MMORPG such as WOW, and other so called "Free" game).Horever, population is also the most valueble resource to Serenity, both the alliances and isk-sellers there.
Competition for the population begins. It is hard to point out when it begins, but now, situation is going worse and worse. Nationalism and racism can be seen among Serenity players, because facing the fact of RMT,bot,inflation,delay in updates, such morale is their last and best defence. Terrorism is arousing among some of the Tranquility players, they try to make financial crisis in Serenity in order to discourage people's confidence.
Politics between two universe? But it is true. To some chinese players, there is another large sandbox which contains the smaller two.
Family Meal
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-12-01 10:08:16 UTC
13 Future: Serenity, "NO TURNING BACK" ?
It is no doubt that Serenity forms a bots-driven mechanism. Some of the bots are coopration-run or even alliance-run. Due to human resource scarcity and RMT, coopration and alliance have to use bots in working, and send real pliot to the battlefield. The more bots there are in the space, the more material and ISK there would be. So, in Serenity, war is very important because it is the only way to consume the commodities and stimulate the RMT. There is a joke to describe this phenomenon, the "KFC" war: one coopration CEO steal the strategic reserve during a war and sell it in the RMT market to buy KFC family meal. The result of "KFC" wars heavily decrease the amount of commodities in Serenity, and leave more and more ISK. Inflation is getting worse and worse.
Nobody in Serenity knows the future of this chinese server, because EVE is not popular in China. Normally,such a game could hardly make a living in China, but EVE achieves-that is why the rumor about the "diplomatic cooperation projects" comes out.
Such a situation makes the players and operation deputies act as realists. Players only focus on what benifits they can get from the game, the operation deputies focus on profit.
Sandbox in Serenity,is equivalent to the polotics among the alliance, many of which are suspected to be agents of the bot workshops. The economic system of Serenity is going to be an unmanned bot machine, and almost nobody care - they call it "high-technology" and a liberation of the human pilots.
Tiancity is the 3rd operation deputy and it is said that the contract will be suspended in 2015, the end of China's WTO protection period . Althought it is uncertain that the rules related to onlinegames will be changed or not, at least there is a chance for EVE,especially the Tranquility.
If the Tranquility can be operated legally and directly in china by using a chinese client, what will be the Serenity's destiny? Close? Merger? Or just keey two universe separatly?
Merger into one universe seems too hard to achieve. May character transfer be an available way?
If the "firewall" Serenity close, lots of bots and RMT players will go to Tranquility and may cause another disaster.
Keep the two universe separatly as before may be a good way, but it also means CCP coopration may "lose" the China market .

Anyway,Serenity has been there for many years. Although Serenity and Tranquility have the same starmap, their social mechanics are totally different. Will CCP pay more attention to this "second universe"? Or just hope the pilots there can rebuilt their community, after all, "There is no turning back."
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#5 - 2013-12-01 10:50:04 UTC
Interesting, thanks for writing this.
Billy Hix
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2013-12-01 11:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Billy Hix
Came expecting someone asking to merge servers. Left knowing a hell of a lot more about the whole situation.

Thank you

EDIT: I still think finding some way of getting us all playing together is a desirable aim, but now I have a better understanding of the complexities. maybe if the licence really does run out in 2015, they will give the Chinese players a really good offer to create new chars on the World server.
Arresy Barres
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-12-01 11:29:04 UTC
A very interesting read.

The ISK-RMT trading thing seems like a serious thing in Serenity, formed almost like a snowball, if what you say is true (that GM's can't even legally do anything about it).

Tranquility GM's should enforce super strict policy about bots, so they can't become well established and snowball like they did in Serenity. Not that it would ever happen, but better to be safe than sorry, right?

Straightforward.
Bloody Slave
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-12-01 11:45:37 UTC
Very informative.

Lets hope we can get some CCP staff insight upon this thread, but not on Sunday, I guess.

I played in TQ with some chinese folks in the past. Isk selling was a nightmare at that time, having local clear from advertising isk sellers for more than 20 minutes was almost impossible, and I'm not talking about Jita but every mission hub. Well, I'm not saying that the said chinese folks were the ones selling isk, only CCP know the truth about it, but the advertisements in TQ stopped somehow after Serenity was running.

Anyways, if he didn't change his mind, CCP's CEO Hilmar Petursson said in 2010:

"Ever since the Chinese version of EVE Online was announced at EVE Fanfest 2005 then CCP has consistently stated that according to CCP's design philosophy and single shard one world strategy then it would make sense to merge the two servers at some point in the future. Currently this is not possible, for various reasons and we have no current plans to do this merger as a results of those reasons. We will continue to communicate our vision and aspirations regardless." - source

If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
Stahlregen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-12-01 12:20:48 UTC
I had know a little of this from some of our own tranquility entities making forays into serenity and coming back with batshit crazy stories of using spoofed social security numbers for subs, mad inflation and getting dogpiled in remote-rep turbobrawls due to being 'outsiders'.
Thanks for sharing, it's really fascinating.

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.
RAW23
#10 - 2013-12-01 12:44:53 UTC
Family Meal wrote:

The "second universe" divided the former "only one" into two pieces, some chinese players in Tranquility couldn't accept it, even nowadays. Briefly, that is, well, hostility.
Chinese players in Tranquility is still a small group, but they have huge ambitions. For many reasons(maybe culture, language, time zone...), they tend to form their own chinese cooprations and alliances. Population is the most valuable resource to them, so they try to recruit new pilots from the players in Serenity - It is very hard to recruit new starters among normal chinese people because EVE is very unpopular there.(They like to play "traditional" MMORPG such as WOW, and other so called "Free" game).Horever, population is also the most valueble resource to Serenity, both the alliances and isk-sellers there.
Competition for the population begins. It is hard to point out when it begins, but now, situation is going worse and worse. Nationalism and racism can be seen among Serenity players, because facing the fact of RMT,bot,inflation,delay in updates, such morale is their last and best defence. Terrorism is arousing among some of the Tranquility players, they try to make financial crisis in Serenity in order to discourage people's confidence.
Politics between two universe? But it is true. To some chinese players, there is another large sandbox which contains the smaller two.


Fascinating stuff! Cross-server terrorism takes meta-gaming to an entirely new level.

Also, OP's name takes on a new meaning after reading about the KFC wars Big smile

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Family Meal
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-12-02 00:50:14 UTC
Arresy Barres wrote:
A very interesting read.

The ISK-RMT trading thing seems like a serious thing in Serenity, formed almost like a snowball, if what you say is true (that GM's can't even legally do anything about it).

Tranquility GM's should enforce super strict policy about bots, so they can't become well established and snowball like they did in Serenity. Not that it would ever happen, but better to be safe than sorry, right?


Serenity GMs will punish some RMT buyers, such as make those buyers' wallet into -100B . But still, a lot of RMT pilot are at large, especially those "Big Boss"
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#12 - 2013-12-02 01:22:12 UTC
I've never understood how racism is a banable offense but cooperating with a government walling in a whole race of people like a subclass of humans is ok.

If history is any measure when the licence runs out China will nationalize the server and boot CCP out.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-12-02 02:44:40 UTC
Good read.

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#14 - 2013-12-02 03:00:30 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
I've never understood how racism is a banable offense but cooperating with a government walling in a whole race of people like a subclass of humans is ok.

If history is any measure when the licence runs out China will nationalize the server and boot CCP out.



WOW WAY TO SEE THINGS FROM ONLY YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

There's just not enough room for our toxic culture there. Confucian ideals hold back innovation and cause some types of corruption, but they provide order to a truly massive number of people. A people who had already experienced 5 centuries of war and chaos when your ancestors still didn't have writing. Or last names.
Subclass of humans indeed.





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#15 - 2013-12-02 03:25:01 UTC
Cpt Tirel wrote:
Interesting, thanks for writing this.


Yes .. interesting and enjoyable.

(for all of you knumbskulls looking for a "takeaway" or a "point" or a motive...

... try to understand that there are many of us out there that just like to think about things.. explore, invert.. ponder the human condition etc..

and it is FUN.. at least as fun as scattering spaceship pixels with our pixel guns or watching sports or collecting virtual currency or winning a game of Civilization.. or completing a crossword puzzle

.. hearing about things you hadn't heard before is an end in itself..

There doesn't need to be a reason for a statement or an observation.. I love observations and I never assume someone has an angle for making the observation.

.
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-12-02 03:51:49 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
I've never understood how racism is a banable offense but cooperating with a government walling in a whole race of people like a subclass of humans is ok.

If history is any measure when the licence runs out China will nationalize the server and boot CCP out.


Your ignorance is showing.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#17 - 2013-12-02 03:56:25 UTC
It would be curious to see them try to combine the shards. Though it will probably be easier to just allow Chinese players to move and eventually shut down the lights on the server.


How would a merger be worked in? Lore? "Parallel Universe" angle? Cataclysmic event?

I'd hate to be the one having to decide how to handle this.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Xenias Gigawatt
The Greater Goon
#18 - 2013-12-02 04:29:05 UTC
Wow, we got pretty far before racist shitheads(more specifically a shithead) started to leak in.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#19 - 2013-12-02 04:39:09 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
I've never understood how racism is a banable offense but cooperating with a government walling in a whole race of people like a subclass of humans is ok.

If history is any measure when the licence runs out China will nationalize the server and boot CCP out.



WOW WAY TO SEE THINGS FROM ONLY YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

There's just not enough room for our toxic culture there. Confucian ideals hold back innovation and cause some types of corruption, but they provide order to a truly massive number of people. A people who had already experienced 5 centuries of war and chaos when your ancestors still didn't have writing. Or last names.
Subclass of humans indeed.




I haven't read anything so misinformed in a long time. Provide order? Toxic cultures? SOME types of corruption? Well, at least the Chinese PR machine is working. Have they released any new baby panda videos lately?

Let me find my little red book. MAO MAO MAO! (is that better?)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#20 - 2013-12-02 04:45:46 UTC
So, as much as the OP talked about botting and that's it not just prevalent there, but the norm. And how seemingly Serenity is not actually profitable, the only conclusion I can draw from this is that we should IP ban the entire country of China.

Nothing against it, but keep their bots out of my game, thank you very much.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
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