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Bastion mode
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Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1 - 2013-11-26 17:23:25 UTC
Bastion mode is suppose to effect the range of weapons while you are in it. How much range does it add to the Kronos, Paladin and Vargir? Because the Golem get's no added lock range, or added range to it's missiles. Seems a bit unfair.
Arcilla
#2 - 2013-11-26 17:40:07 UTC
According to in-game attributes, it gives +25% missile velocity (compared to +25% optimal and falloff), so it should give a comparable range increase.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#3 - 2013-11-26 17:42:57 UTC
I'll have to look into it tomorrow, I hope you are right, if you are I might change over to Torps, whahahahaha
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#4 - 2013-11-26 18:11:39 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
I'll have to look into it tomorrow, I hope you are right, if you are I might change over to Torps, whahahahaha



MJD is for getting close!

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-11-26 18:24:29 UTC
Arcilla wrote:
According to in-game attributes, it gives +25% missile velocity (compared to +25% optimal and falloff), so it should give a comparable range increase.


Even though the Golem can practically shoot missiles into the future the velocity bonus does more than add range. It means more DPS on target.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#6 - 2013-11-26 18:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
I'm just thinking with Javelins and the 25% to velocity I should have no issue hitting 60km to 80km I'd think. I'll need to switch out rigs and launchers is all.

And I'm not looking for a MJD, I have noticed with "most" battleships a MJD isn't needed, if you have your skills where they should be and know what you are doing.

Anyone have a Golem torp fit I could get range numbers from please?
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#7 - 2013-11-26 19:01:46 UTC
My biggest gripes about the bastion module is the untraditional 1:1 opt/falloff bonus and the stacking penalties. x% optimal != x% falloff.
Seriously Bored
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-11-26 19:47:51 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
My biggest gripes about the bastion module is the untraditional 1:1 opt/falloff bonus and the stacking penalties. x% optimal != x% falloff.


Totally agree, especially about the stacking penalty part. I think we'd be having a totally different conversation about it if Bastion range wasn't stacking penalized.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#9 - 2013-11-26 21:09:23 UTC
Bastoin Could use scripts for falloff or optimal.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#10 - 2013-11-26 21:13:39 UTC
Golem with bastion mode and 2 Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II

First I used the Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II over the Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II because when I tested them both the Fuel Cache Partition gave more range. I'm guessing this has something to do with bastion giving the Golem 25% missile velocity bonus, but I can't be sure

With Rage Torps you get 44km with 1338DPS
With Javelin Torps you get 80km 1012DPS

Not bad, I'll use Torps on my Golem for now on haha
Arcilla
#11 - 2013-11-29 20:58:43 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Even though the Golem can practically shoot missiles into the future the velocity bonus does more than add range. It means more DPS on target.


How do you figure? Are you talking about better damage projection (in which case I don't see how this differs from better optimal/falloff)? Better survival against defender missiles?

Or have they changed missile damage formula recently?
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#12 - 2013-11-29 21:00:55 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Bastion mode is suppose to effect the range of weapons while you are in it. How much range does it add to the Kronos, Paladin and Vargir? Because the Golem get's no added lock range, or added range to it's missiles. Seems a bit unfair.

How do you check only half the stats for a module, and then make a thread about it?

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-11-29 21:31:28 UTC
Arcilla wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Even though the Golem can practically shoot missiles into the future the velocity bonus does more than add range. It means more DPS on target.


How do you figure? Are you talking about better damage projection (in which case I don't see how this differs from better optimal/falloff)? Better survival against defender missiles?

Or have they changed missile damage formula recently?


Okay for some reason I thought the velocity of missiles effected damage but it's only the target velocity. I guess with cruise missiles the only change would be time to target. Now with torpedoes you can get 80km range.
Mikkir
SHINKETSU Inc.
#14 - 2013-11-30 09:33:31 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Okay for some reason I thought the velocity of missiles effected damage but it's only the target velocity. I guess with cruise missiles the only change would be time to target. Now with torpedoes you can get 80km range.



Did torpedoes become a thing again? Last I heard cruise missiles still did better because because of the better base damage application and the ability to fit 2 rigors instead of range rigs, although I haven't been keeping up on current fittings.
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
#15 - 2013-11-30 10:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Fille Balle
Well, I tested a blaster kronos yesterday. I can hit out to 80+ km with one t2 TC and a RF TE using void. The tank is also insane.

Thank you CCP! I actually resubbed for this expansion, and I'm glad I did.

Edit: the bastion module adds extra velocity to missiles, so it does add some range to missiles as well. I think they hit slightly better as well. I know I'm caldari, but I never bothered skilling missiles. They just seem useless to me, so I went for turrets instead.

Paladin and Kronos are my mission boats, and I'm skilled up for a vargur. Debating if I should save up for one, but current prices are a bit over the top for my liking. I bought both my current marauders for about 750 million back in the day.

Stop the spamming, not the scamming!
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-11-30 14:09:11 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Arcilla wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Even though the Golem can practically shoot missiles into the future the velocity bonus does more than add range. It means more DPS on target.


How do you figure? Are you talking about better damage projection (in which case I don't see how this differs from better optimal/falloff)? Better survival against defender missiles?

Or have they changed missile damage formula recently?


Okay for some reason I thought the velocity of missiles effected damage but it's only the target velocity. I guess with cruise missiles the only change would be time to target. Now with torpedoes you can get 80km range.


This topic is actually quite relevant but not especially clear.

Faster missile travel adds applied dps, meaningfully so:

• rats spawn on trigger kills
• sometimes trigger is kill all
• in these occasions you cannot lock a new rat until the volley has reached and killed the trigger
• this can mean a multiple second lull in damage projection, especially at long ranges, and the faster travel negates it (in effect 1-2 seconds per trigger at orbit ranges)

This shows meaningfully in nullsec ratting where e.g. Raven with range tank loses several million isk per hour to this.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#17 - 2013-12-01 08:42:43 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
My biggest gripes about the bastion module is the untraditional 1:1 opt/falloff bonus and the stacking penalties. x% optimal != x% falloff.

How many times do we have to go through this?

Equal bonus to both optimal and falloff means this is the bonus to range. Of ALL weapons, equally. The math behind isn't that hard.

If you split unequally then you're going to favor one or another gun.

Stacking penalties are another story but I guess the bonus could be OP otherwise.
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#18 - 2013-12-01 09:04:25 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
My biggest gripes about the bastion module is the untraditional 1:1 opt/falloff bonus and the stacking penalties. x% optimal != x% falloff.

How many times do we have to go through this?

Equal bonus to both optimal and falloff means this is the bonus to range. Of ALL weapons, equally. The math behind isn't that hard.

If you split unequally then you're going to favor one or another gun.

Stacking penalties are another story but I guess the bonus could be OP otherwise.


you realize that falloff gets counted twice? not at full value, ill admit, but is still gets doubled into the absolute.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#19 - 2013-12-01 09:09:20 UTC
Silas Shaw wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
My biggest gripes about the bastion module is the untraditional 1:1 opt/falloff bonus and the stacking penalties. x% optimal != x% falloff.

How many times do we have to go through this?

Equal bonus to both optimal and falloff means this is the bonus to range. Of ALL weapons, equally. The math behind isn't that hard.

If you split unequally then you're going to favor one or another gun.

Stacking penalties are another story but I guess the bonus could be OP otherwise.


you realize that falloff gets counted twice? not at full value, ill admit, but is still gets doubled into the absolute.

Honestly I have no idea what are you talking about. It's not about those ranges you see when hovering your cursor over the gun. It's about those attributes you see in the "info" window.