Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Best-case scenario is I'd use RHMLs with precision heavies and rigors on a Raven.

Yeah, you could use rigors to improve damage application. If you can't hit sh*t any kind of tank is pointless anyway. No, three T1 rigors are superior to two T1 rigors and a T1 flare. You're going to have a tough time convincing me that players are going to dump enough in T2 rigs equivalent to (or exceeding) the T1 Raven hull cost. That's like throwing good money after bad...

1. If you're using anything other than RHMLs or RLMLs on a Raven for smaller targets, you're doing in wrong.
2. If you're running uber-expensive T2 rigs on a Raven for PvP, you're doing it wrong.
3. If you choose a battleship to hunt frigates, you're doing it wrong.

Basically you're doing it wrong.
…..

If I was going to hunt in a Raven, I'd be running RHMLs with three T1 hydraulic rigs to extend my range out to almost 100km. Assuming I made it past the gate camps, interceptors and everything else that can basically turn me into a floating pile of cinders long before I reach my destination. In other words, I'd take my Tengu.

I understand that battleships in general are dinosaurs (have been for some time) but this doesn't change the fact that heavies are terrible. The fact that the tengu is the only ship that can do anything with them (and even then it's terrible, it just happens to be able to accomplish things eventually)

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say at this point, you just keep saying stupid ****.

Maybe you'll figure out that this is a RLML/RHML thread and really has no bearings on cruise missiles...

Where did I mention cruise missiles? You're still just saying stupid **** over and over again.

Best case scenario is I wouldn't be a Rifter pilot charging straight at a BS pilot. Test is invalid because internet derp. Congratulations you win 3.14 internets

Bouh, you have not e-mailed me to say when you're free to come see this terrible Thorax fit of mine, eat your frigates alive on the test server. Still available to test it any time. I know it works, because I have tested it. I have never said you are not good enough. Infact I have said the exact opposite. I have said I think you're doing very well with your killboard and that I would have happily recruited you back when my corp was active.

I have also said several times now, that I believe Precision Lights are too precise. I have also agreed with you on the TD issues facing gun users being overpowered.

However, you have not flown any Caldari ships. You have not flown missiles or used the RLML in anger. Your killboard shows a handful of losses to Caracal's - way more losses to Gun Cruisers - and yet somehow the Caracal RLML is overpowered still?

You are correct Scorch! That is the point. It is a small target in an extremely ideal situation. If missiles were on any sort of parity to the turrets we wouldn't see the 300% difference in damage applied. Keep in mind those are Large-sized T2 Railguns on the Hyperion.

The issue with missiles is that they are designed for the tracking penalty that oversized turrets have on small targets. In addition missiles will suffer a further penalty due to the velocity of the target and the so-called explosion-velocity. The point is as Scorch correctly guessed was to clearly and concisely demonstrate why Missiles are not feasible in PvP and to an increasing extent (recently) in PvE. Simply as there are more efficient methods to destroy the target.

Nowadays, most noobs that I run into I do not recommend skilling for a Drake or Raven etc. I normally even tell them to forget that the Typhoon exists. Simply as it also uses the same broken system and its' bonuses don't truly compensate for that. However the Typhoon is in a slightly better position than the Raven. Most noobs I advise to either train Amarr, Gallente or Minmatar. Simply as the missiles' mechanics are just horrendous. That said the only benefit that missiles have at the moment is they are easier for noobs to understand conceptually. Keep in mind that I started playing Eve when you had to memorize or have a note with the ranges for each ammo you fired from a turret.


RHML suffers from the same issues that I and others already stated. HMs and CMs (HAMs and Torps too) are all extremely inefficient when it comes to damage-application. Turrets as you may remember gain damage bonuses from the specialization and surgical-strike skills. These bonuses offset the loss from less-than-perfect strikes to a decent degree.

Missiles have no such bonus to damage except for the warhead-upgrades skill. Which doesn't do anything useful to offset the damage applied by the missile due to stupidly designed mechanics. Rigs such as the RIgor and Flare will help recover some of that lost damage but not enough to make any substantial difference. A missile user will still lose about 50% or more of their damage on a given moving target.

All that RHMLs do is try to cover up the obscenely bad missile mechanics by spamming them faster from a small magazine with a draconian reload timer. In short, even in EFT it is painfully obvious that missiles are not feasible for PvP except in one of those "Blue Moon" scenarios. Missiles are not and will not be useful or worth the SP till the mechanics and underlying issues are properly/correctly fixed.

Something that CCP needs to have been working on before they add more complex systems that add to the issues with that system. If that isn't clear enough I dare any CCP employee to take the same number of SP as my character (toon) of choice and fight me 1v1 on SiSi. The CCP employee must however use these so called balanced and optimized missiles that he keeps going on about. But hey, I know you won't take the challenge for a simple reason.

You know that you will lose practically every match against me!

For a simple reason the amount of damage you can apply with your missiles will not beat my tank. If you go for continuous fire, you only deal half the dps using rapids. Which still won't break my tank. Regardless of what approach you take, I will kill you and take your frozen corpse. Simply cause you cannot fight me 1v1 with a missile boat using the present mechanics for missiles. Missiles don't apply their damage even remotely efficiently. If Eve was real, I would fire and space whomever was the engineer that designed those warheads. It is that simple!

21st Century Air-to-Air missiles are more efficient against their designed-for target than these pieces of garbage. So, good luck convincing me that the advanced New Eden empires' are unable to design a missile. So, can I please have some AMRAAMs, Sidewinders, or Sparrow air-to-air missiles for my Caldari missile boat next patch? I couldn't possibly be worse off...

Your logic is obviously infallible given the examples and numbers you have provided. Thank you so much for so effectively refuting a well focused test.

Zircon,

It a test well designed to show the disparity between supposedly equivalent and balanced systems. In fact it clearly indicates that they are not balanced when you have over a 300% difference in the DPS in favor of the Turret or Drone.

If you cannot see and comprehend that, than I am not sure that you are worth attempting to hold any form of conversation with. Since I am not able to tell if you understand the math or how to design and execute a test. I also specifically recall stating that it was a test designed as an ideal situation for all three weapon systems.

Therefore, the test is and was valid for the purpose that was intended. To determine if there was disparity and to what degree. Also that pattern holds for Cruiser sized weapons against frigs. The only situation where missiles are more effective is against a small fast orbiting target. However, the effect of webs and TPs quickly again turn the tables into the Turret and Drone's favor. Simply as the webs and TPs don't assist the missile's damage-application as much as the other two.