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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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[newbie] Weapon size vs. ship size?

Author
Jia Cato
Drone Matriarch
#1 - 2013-11-28 18:31:24 UTC
Hi,

I've been playing EVE for a few weeks now, and this is my second attempt at the game. I tried EVE the first time about a year ago I think, but it felt a bit too "heavy" if you know what I mean. I love the space though, the stars, the unknown, the cold, and it gives me chills just to look at the clear sky on a pitch black night, and I'm getting derailed here...

Anyway, I'm at it again, trying to get hooked on EVE, and this time I'm going to force my self to try most of the aspects of the game. I love the space, but I have to figure out what I want to do out there!

This thread is about guns though. Small guns vs. small ships, etc? That's what I've gathered so far. I bought my first cruiser, my biggest ship, a Thorax, and it was exciting (first time around I got only to destroyer size), but I noticed when I went to do a mission and these little pirates came in their little frigates, it took me right about the same time to kill them with medium turrets as it does with small ones. Though I had medium drones also out so in fact they might have done most of the job anyway.

Is there a secret to make bigger guns effective against smaller ships? Or should I just hold on to bigger ships until I get bigger missions? It's a bit of a letdown if I have to fit small guns into a big ship, especially when there's a limited amount of slots where they go. Any ideas? Tips? Suggestions? I'm all ears, thank you.
Captain Meric
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-11-28 18:39:43 UTC
Bigger guns aren't meant to shoot small things than you are. So when you are in a cruiser, frigates are going to be harder to hit.

Some ways to help your guns is to have webs in your mid slots, instead of using medium drones carry a flight of light drones, or burn away from the smaller ships and use falloff to shot the smaller ships as they have to burn at you.

There are some mods that also help you tracking speed as well that might help. The best way though is to use light drones on frigate enemies, letting your gun wreak ships that are the same size (or bigger ) than yours. if you are running missions that doesn't have cruisers in them, it would be better to stick with destroyers or frigates of your own. Or, find a corporation and fly with them in bigger missions, it is a good way to get bigger missions for yourself as well.
Lilliana Stelles
#3 - 2013-11-28 19:00:53 UTC
Some medium guns are anti-small ships (220mm autocannons, rapid light missile launcher). But in general, you lose a great deal of DPS against smaller ships because they're harder to hit.

You can slow your target down and increase their signature radius to deal extra damage. You should have some extra mid slots on your thorax; consider running a webbifier (decrease target speed, so you track batter), or a target painter (increase signature radius, so your turrets have a more similar signature resolution to the target). In the case of gallente ships, the web will likely do you more good.

Not a forum alt. 

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-28 19:03:58 UTC
mediums guns are scaled to hit medium+ sized targets easier

all ships have a signature radius, all guns have a targeting resolution and tracking speed

some generalisations below

as ship size increases so does it's signature size, and it's maximum speed is lower
as gun size increases it's resolution gets larger, and it's tracking speed becomes slower

eg (these numbers are purely given as guidelines, and are not meant to be taken as 'quoted from in-game sources')

frigate - signature 25m (37.5)m
small gun - resolution 25
speed & tracking - fast

cruiser - signature 50m (75)m
medium gun - resolution 50m
speed & tracking - slow

battleship - signature 100m (150)m
large gun - resolution 100m
speed & tracking - very slow

so if you use a medium gun to shoot at a frigate, the targeting area is 2x the size of the target, making it much easier to miss the target (your shot has a 50%+ chance to hit where the target is not), but a target painted frigate is only 25% smaller than the medium guns area of effect.



Webifiers slow the target down, so your guns can track the target more easily
Target Painters increase the signature size of the target (exampled in brackets above) making them easier to hit.

it's how it all makes sense to me anyway ...
Keno Skir
#5 - 2013-11-28 19:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Also medium drones wont tend to hit frigates very well. Quite likely you would do MORE actual damage to the small fast ships with Light Scout Drones.

Every weapon has it's own "Tracking Speed" which is the speed it can be rotated to follow a target. Drones weapons also have a limited tracking speed which tends to favour shooting things of their favourite size catagory :

Light scout drones for small targets like frigates / destroyers / fast cruisers
Medium drones for slow big cruisers / battlecruisers
Large drones for battleships and above

The DPS (Damage per second) figure represented in the fittings window assumes perfect hits which is very rarely the case. Just because medium drones show higher DPS doesnt mean you will get even close to that figure shooting at small frigates and the same for medium guns. You will likely find that a 130dps Destroyer does more damage to fast frigates with its small guns that can track fast, than a 300dps Cruiser that can't actually apply it's 300dps to such a small fast target.

Of course if you can work out a way to slow the target down to a speed better suited to the cruiser then it can work (WEB/s!), but i still suggest light scout drones for a good long while.

Every ship is a TOOL and nothing more. It does what it does well, but that will NEVER be everything. Use the right tool for the job and the job will go quick. I know it feels like every new ship at this stage is the 1 and u wanna be in it always, but try to knock a nail in with a sledge hammer ur probly gonna miss 9 times out of 10. Collect together a belt of tools for different things and start to learn which tool does what :)

OP if you'd like to come and fly with a group get in touch in game. Eve isn't meant to be "completely" solo o/
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-11-28 21:37:35 UTC
Here's a really good video that explains turret tracking in EVE.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2013-11-28 22:45:34 UTC
Find a good corp who can help you out. Its the best way to grow in eve.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-11-28 23:36:59 UTC
Just work on those gunnery support skills. The thorax has a bonus to turret tracking and with a web should be able to shed even very fast frigates. There are also mods to improve turret tracking.

You need to build your ships with a purpose in mind. In pvp you will need to define an engagement envelope. In pve, where you know that you need to deal with different classes of ships you should prepare for that. For example, use medium long range turretsand keep light drones and a web handy for things that get too close.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#9 - 2013-11-29 03:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
On the drones,

A good rule of thumb is a flight of 5 is always better than a mixed flight. So if you have a 40m3 drone bay 25 bandwidth, better to have 5 smalls out, with 3 spares than 2 mediums and 1 small. You actually get more dps from the 5 smalls because they spend less time traveling between kills. Exceptions to this rule do exist, but they are situational.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Jia Cato
Drone Matriarch
#10 - 2013-11-29 13:02:42 UTC
Thank you all for the replies, some very good info there. I kinda figured as much about the bigger turrets not so good at hitting smaller ships, but you never know if there's some advanced trick! The Thorax propably hit okayish since it has that tracking bonus indeed.
Jia Cato
Drone Matriarch
#11 - 2013-11-29 13:06:57 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:


OP if you'd like to come and fly with a group get in touch in game. Eve isn't meant to be "completely" solo o/


Thank you sir for the offer, but I'll look around for a while and get hang of basic things, also there's still the "everyone wants to scam you and kill you and eat your beating heart while sipping white wine made of your tears" phase, so lets check on this in the future :)
Jia Cato
Drone Matriarch
#12 - 2013-11-29 13:15:33 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Here's a really good video that explains turret tracking in EVE.


This is multi useful, not only did I watch the video but also started to read his blog entries. All of a sudden lowsec does not sound that bad of a place. Sure you'll get blown up, especially on your noob phase, but with a good chance by a gentleman haha. Every new player should read at least a couple of those newbie oriented entries there!

About the tracking video, so he basically said that even if a small ship is standing still or running straight at him, he can still destroy it with big guns since he's not moving sideways? Usually, at least so far, in NPC missions they pretty much come straight at me, and I'm the one orbiting them at long range, maybe if I just sit still or go straight at them in a cruiser I'll be hitting them just fine.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-11-29 15:13:27 UTC
That is the idea with rats. If they are smaller than you and/or you can outrange them fly right at them or away and let them chase you
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-11-29 17:58:54 UTC
Jia Cato wrote:
This is multi useful, not only did I watch the video but also started to read his blog entries.


It's a great resource, but unfortunately he's stopped updating the blog. Get it while it still applies! His "know your enemy" series is great for learning about different ships and how they can be used effectively.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Keno Skir
#15 - 2013-11-29 18:12:25 UTC
Jia Cato wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:


OP if you'd like to come and fly with a group get in touch in game. Eve isn't meant to be "completely" solo o/


Thank you sir for the offer, but I'll look around for a while and get hang of basic things, also there's still the "everyone wants to scam you and kill you and eat your beating heart while sipping white wine made of your tears" phase, so lets check on this in the future :)


It's against the EULA for me to scam you as a result of contacting you through the new players forums. Flying with new players / ironing out the initial learning curve is something i do regularly for players from this forum, and a little research will show nothing but good press.

And for info there is a special trick for hitting small things with large guns, you must reduce it's orbital velocity to something more in range of your guns. You can do this by being faster than your opponent and making them chase you in a straight line, while you shoot directly backward (no tracking required since target is essentially stationary, only moving toward or away from you).

Remember this when you are being shot at especially from range. Keep your orbital velocity of the target high, never chase directly or run away directly. Spirals are your friend when reducing incoming damage.