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Information Warfare Links - do they measure up?
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Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#1 - 2011-11-20 03:43:32 UTC
Hello All,

I've happily flown my damnation with 3 armor links and I've been wondering with Crucible if the EOS wouldn't be worth a shot, but I just don't get as wet about the Gallente links.

Am I just missing their greatness? or should I stay in my damnation?

Best
AG
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-11-20 04:07:19 UTC
Take a look at the links, and then ask yourself - Do these provide any use to my fleet? 99.9% of the time... the answer is no.

-Arazel
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#3 - 2011-11-20 04:10:45 UTC
That's precisely why I've not flown them before. I just thought I may be missing something.

AG
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-20 04:36:41 UTC
Not only are the info links themselves lackluster, but the Eos' tank also doesn't even come close to being as good as a Damnation
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#5 - 2011-11-20 06:03:06 UTC
Not to hijack the thread here, but is there a drawback in using different links than the racial ones? Say can i use armour ones in a booster tengu for an armour fleet? Question might be stupid but i couldn't find any info regarding this.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-11-20 09:40:35 UTC
Kaanchana wrote:
Not to hijack the thread here, but is there a drawback in using different links than the racial ones? Say can i use armour ones in a booster tengu for an armour fleet? Question might be stupid but i couldn't find any info regarding this.


The drawback is that you don't get the bonus for racial links.
Songbird
#7 - 2011-11-20 13:00:40 UTC
There should've been gun: tracking, optimal and falloff links and they should've been all gallente. Then you'd be seeing eos in every single fleet :)
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-20 13:50:34 UTC
Songbird wrote:
There should've been gun: tracking, optimal and falloff links and they should've been all gallente. Then you'd be seeing eos in every single fleet :)


I'd rather see tracking, optimal/falloff (combined), and MOAR DAMAGE!
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#9 - 2011-11-20 14:24:45 UTC
Ok Hypothetical:

Given even players would ***** if lag were removed, what would players complain about if these gang links were totally redone?

AG
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Lili Lu
#10 - 2011-11-20 15:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Songbird wrote:
There should've been gun: tracking, optimal and falloff links and they should've been all gallente. Then you'd be seeing eos in every single fleet :)


Or maybe some drone bonuses for an entier fleet. The ew focus on the links is misplaced. The only one that makes some sense even roleplay wise is the sensor integrity link.

Possible drone buff links mught be control range, drone damage, drone tracking and optimal.

Seeing as even all these gun and drone might still pale in relation to the shield armor and skirmish links it would not op to make each link multitask. For instance a generalized gunnery link that might increase optimal, fall-off, and tracking. Similarly a generalized drone link for damage and control range. As I said before I would probably keep the sensor ingtegrity link as part of the lineup.
Songbird
#11 - 2011-11-20 15:46:25 UTC
The only problem with guns or drone links is that then you'd have to have missile links. I don't think CCP wants 50% (or w/e the t2 links give you ) increase in damage application - it would be absolute murder on all kinds of speed and signature tanks
Lili Lu
#12 - 2011-11-20 16:56:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Songbird wrote:
The only problem with guns or drone links is that then you'd have to have missile links. I don't think CCP wants 50% (or w/e the t2 links give you ) increase in damage application - it would be absolute murder on all kinds of speed and signature tanks


True. Damage links could easily be op. But, having a drone control range and navigation speed link, or having gun tracking link alone, I do not think would be op.Of course it would all depend on the percentages. 2 of the 3 ew links given to Gallente I don't think I've ever seen used. And I don't think I've ever seen an Eos in the wild, or any talk about a command proteus for that matter. Something should be done.
Sputter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-11-20 17:08:01 UTC
I've only seen astares and Eos a long time ago like back in 08-09 actually being used but honestly i have not seen any of them used since in pvp, and theres a reason why lol. Hopefully with the new hybrid buff you might see them again, but still doubtful
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#14 - 2011-11-20 19:33:26 UTC
http://eve-search.com/thread/1066692-0/page/1#16

Your concerns have been raised since 2009 and nothing has ever been done by CCP. Probably even before that.

Nothing will ever be done by CCP as there isn't enough noise made about it, even though this is another of the nails in the Gallente coffin.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#15 - 2011-11-20 23:04:30 UTC
Some problems with the information warfare links:
Electronic superiority:
Despite having a comparatively TINY niche (compare the number of ships that benefit from better ewar to those who benefit from more tackle range, speed, armor or shield tanks) it not only offers nothing over other links in terms of raw performance increase (typically one balances things with small niches by either making them extremely useful when needed, or by making them notably better than their everyday use counterparts), but it actually offers LESS than most gang links on most of the mods it affects (~17% strength on most ewar mods from a proteus booster so about half what most leadership mods offer compared to most links giving 28%, hell on an unimplanted, unbonused hull the interdiction manoeuvres link gives 22%)

Recon operation:
Range boost to ewar mods, which tend to be used well inside their optimals anyway (most of them have optimals of 45km, some much farther than that) If that bonus also applied to points (with web range staying on the matar links, which is how it should have been in the first place)

Sensor integrity:
Arguably the most obviously flawed. It's kind of like the equivalent of the resist mods for the armor/shield links, in that it has the potential to act as an extra (or a replacement) of a specific mod for every ship in the fleet (eanm/invuln for armor/shield, eccm for info)

The stats on the armor/shield links closely resemble their ship mod counterparts(even surpassing them with t2 links coming) but the eccm link?

An ECCM adds 96% more sensor strength.
The link adds 42%.

It's less than half as effective, in a more niche role.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-11-21 01:17:56 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
An ECCM adds 96% more sensor strength.
The link adds 42%.

It's less than half as effective, in a more niche role.


I have actually seen this in action. I was in a mixed alliance fleet and one of the BC's had the link running whilst in the Logi squad.

Wasn't until after that I asked about it and was told they were running the link to boost sensor strength on the Scimi's that all had ECCM fitted.

Granted we were facing an ECM heavy fleet so it has very limited application. Was effective though. None of the Scimi's were jammed at any point.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#17 - 2011-11-21 01:44:47 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
An ECCM adds 96% more sensor strength.
The link adds 42%.

It's less than half as effective, in a more niche role.


I have actually seen this in action. I was in a mixed alliance fleet and one of the BC's had the link running whilst in the Logi squad.

Wasn't until after that I asked about it and was told they were running the link to boost sensor strength on the Scimi's that all had ECCM fitted.

Granted we were facing an ECM heavy fleet so it has very limited application. Was effective though. None of the Scimi's were jammed at any point.

On an unbonused (and likely unimplanted) ship/character the difference would have been tiny, it was more the ECCMs that did the job, as each one is twice as effective as the link, even under ideal circumstances, and closer to 4 times as effective in your scenario.