EVE General Discussion

You have twice argued that regardless of what CCP employees have stated, microtransactions are coming and they will become a major part of EvE Online. When presented with an employee stating otherwise you have argued that they are lying. You have then gone on to argue that microtransactions are still going to be an integral aspect of EvE Online. You have also stated how people will react to said microtransactions(saying that there will be no anger, that people will just accept it, and that everybody will continue on as though nothing had changed). So how are you not attempting to speak for these entities? You've attempted to say you know CCP's plans better than their marketing director and that you know how players will respond better than the players that have responded to you in this thread. You're arguing an opinion and whenever someone disagrees with your opinion you claim their opinion is baseless whereas yours is fact. You seem to like the idea of microtransactions. I do not know why, but they are appealing to you. That view is something that is not shared by the majority of EvE players, though you continue to deny this. You have even gone so far as to declare all opinions, besides your own, espoused on these forums as those of a vocal minority and therefore meaningless.

As to your arguments about how PLEX so greatly impacts New Eden, would you please provide a citation for stating an alliance paid for wars with PLEX? A single Titan can cost upwards of 80 Billion ISK when fully fit. That's about 40 PLEX, or over $500 in cash. The loss of a single Titan will set some people back an entire week's pay, so I don't imagine many people are funding them through their real life wallet. Smaller ships, such as carriers, can cost 2 PLEX(or $34.99); Dreadnaughts can cost 6 PLEX(or $104.99); and some battleships can cost upwards of a single PLEX(or roughly $17). Perhaps they were able to amass enough cash to buy a Titan, but to be able to fund a war can cost 10s of thousands of dollars and I doubt anyone is willing to pay that for things that will be destroyed. Furthermore, you are attempting to debase PLEX into a microtransaction. In it's base form it is just that, but it is not akin to microtransactions such as those you love in World of Warplane/Tanks/Trains and Automobiles. You are basically arguing that as money is printed on a form of paper, all paper should be considered money. A child's history essay is not a legal form of currency, and no matter how many times you argue that it is all just paper this will not change.PLEX is not, and never has been a response to microtransactions. It is, and always has been, a response to illicit RMT. It is a market commodity designed to move an out of game resource that is more integral to EvE than any in game resource(a subscription) from one player to another. In exchange for this, the receiving player may choose to buy said commodity. At no point does it create anything, instead acting as only a transfer of resources. These resources are useless unless the receiving player has the skills to use them. I can buy as many Titans as I want with PLEX, it will not grant me the ability to take nor hold Sovereignty and it won't even grant me the ability to fly them.

You then go on to argue about how I have to spend ISK in game to obtain assets. Which is an obvious thing to anyone that has played EvE. You, however, seem to be arguing that the only way for me to reliably attain said ISK is through the sale of PLEX. This is not the case. I am able to make plenty of ISK through in-game activities, none of which require me buying or selling a single PLEX. Of course I have bought ships, paid for with ISK not gained through the sale of PLEX. I have also bought the skill books needed to train the skills to fly them, again paid for with ISK not gained through the sale of PLEX. I own BPOs, bought from both NPC Corporations and other players, paid for with ISK not gained through the sale of PLEX. Those BPOs do not make anything spawn in game that was not there, rather they take raw materials mined from asteroids by myself or another player, refined at a station by myself or another player into minerals, which are then manufactured into the requisite ship and/or parts needed to build a ship by myself or another player, and finally that ship is sold and bought on the market by myself or another player. Some ships require materials gained the PI, which is performed by myself or another player, where we extract and refine resources into higher tier resources that are then used to manufacture parts for higher tier ships. Those ships, manufactured by myself or another player, are bought and sold on the market by myself and another player. Now if I buy a PLEX with my credit card and sell it on the market, I am selling a commodity that is transformed into a utility(a month's subscription, dual or triple character training, character transfer or some avatar vanity item) but that cannot be transformed into anything else. The effect on gameplay is that the purchasing player can train a character for a month(at the same speed as me), fund their account for another month, transfer another character(again trained at the same speed as me) to or from their account or buy some clothes which will have no impact on gameplay. The only gameplay effected in this case is that of the selling character(who gets some ISK which was earned through in game actions), and the purchasing character(who gets to keep playing). Outside of them, the gameplay is unaffected. Now, should we switch to your beloved World of Planes, Trains and Automobiles form of microtransactions, every single one would impact the gameplay of every player as the ISK would be generated from the ether. This is unacceptable to the core players of EvE Online. Are we done now? Let me guess, you'll ignore everything except what you want to selectively quote, and you'll try to seem intelligent by doing so.

While those are the commonly accepted definitions of RMT, they are not what CCP, and the majority of people posting in this thread, deem to be RMT when used in relation to the Eve universe. CCP state RMT to be the buying or selling of any ingame assets, including currency, ships and characters outside of the official channels that are provided by CCP and their partners, ergo PLEX when purchased through official channels is not RMT, because CCP don't consider it to be.

When using the term in reference to Eve it'd probably be better to use the specific definition that CCP uses rather than the general definition. It's their game, and their definition of RMT and the rules applying to it in their intellectual property are what matters. CCP's definition of RMT, the only one of any import for this topic, is the one that the your detractors, including myself, appear to be using.

edits in italics

Because that employee's job is literally to tell you what you want to hear and do PR damage control. The actual content of his statement didn't actually promise a thing.



So some pigs are more equal than others huh?



And having the skills and no resources and those things are equally useless. You're basically arguing that the transfer of resources has no impact on the game.





and yet somehow you seem to be failing to grasp that isk has value, and impacts the game.

Stop and think for a moment, if you will. All those things you mention take time. All of them. Plex does not. How is that not an advantage?

Without spending real world money this transaction would not have taken place. Character A, the seller, would not have had anything to sell, and would have to have made his is the slow way, like character B. While the isk itself is made through in game actions, the point was that it's not the seller's in game actions. The seller is in fact, only making one in game action, to place the plex on the market and sell it, for isk. Now the seller has said isk, without having had to do any in game work at all to receive it. This is called a short cut. Character A has just purchased advantage, as he does not have to spend time working to earn his isk in game, like everyone who doesn't buy plex.

Further, I'll just point this out: By that logic, how is that different, per se, from gold farmers, who do in game work to make isk, and then sell it for RMT? Because the only one I see is that one is CCP sanctioned and one is not.



As anyone who's ever actually played a WG game knows, actually isk would not be, it'd be generated from playing the game. Gold only has uses in marginally accelerating the rate at which you acquire Xp and credits through in game activities, an alternative to credits on certain consumables, and for the purchase of certain vanity vehicles. While you can purchase credits from the shop, the exchange rate is horrific, and one is much better off earning them. As far as the vanity vehicles go, most of them do not provide any real advantage. The ones that have in the past have generally been nerfed, removed from the shop, or both.

As far as your prediction about me only quoting parts of your post, it's sort of self fulfilling because you reached the character limit.

I think OP you are a little confused as to the answers in this thread.

You say no one is answering or confusing but really most people are saying:

Yes microtransactions are fine through the PLEX/AUR model AS LONG AS those things do not give an advantage that (listen closely) could not have been gained through in game means.

Things that are OK therefore boil down to cosmetic things ship skins and the like. Anything like a different ship or gold ammo are a no. The reason people are advocating that is that the vast majority of games with microtransactions have a Pay to win mentality that doesn't fit with the EvE mentality which is you fight for what you keep.

Anyone got anything else to add?

I would argue that that means that they are altering the NeX. I don't think you can really draw any conclusions further than that.

Most likely it's just filling it out and not making it a list so therefore easier to use. Possibly add in other cosmetics but I don't see what their benefit of doing anything more than that is.

Why do unpopular microtransactions when releasing a "collectors edition" box with a bit of bling in it is very well received and ordered by the playerbase? Call it a macro-transaction? Microtransactions are so last decade.

Because that's not the point of it? Almost all the 'rumor mongering' that has gone on is almost completely OT.

TBH I don't think anyone really cares about the NEX store as long as it remains strictly for cosmetic items, they'll either buy them, or they won't. The moment CCP start introducing non cosmetic items through it is the moment that people will start caring about it, and kicking off.

Ship skins, tattoos, robotic limbs etc have no effect on actual gameplay, are cosmetic, and as such are fine. IMHO selling Aurum for SP/LP, selling ships, modules, ammo etc through the NEX store, or any other method, would be a major cause for concern, would not be acceptable to a majority of players and is likely to initiate a repeat of the summer of rage, and all that came with it.

I think the major problem with this thread in general is that your definition of RMT differs from pretty much everybody elses, including CCPs, it's caused quite a bit of misunderstanding and confusion.

Still waiting for my paint