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[NERF] Serpentis web bonus change

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#281 - 2013-11-28 19:07:14 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Why is so hard for you to understand that the serpentis web bonus make a web 4 TIMES stronger. While the baalghorn bonus makes a neutralizer 75% stronger.

There is a HUGE difference there!

Webs at 90% are much more absolute, specially when combined with superior firepower of serpentis ship. The shisp are not hugely OP, but they clearly have the most sinergetic bonus set !

I don't think the bonus need to be removed. But it could be reduced to 7.5% per level on the vindicator and left alone in the vigilant. The daredevil is harder to emit a precise diagnostics

Where do you get the 4 times from?

If you take a ship that goes 100 m/s and 90% web it, it will do 10 m/s. Now take a normal 60% web. You will take that 100 m/s ship down to 40 m/s. The 2nd 60% webber will take it down to 16 m/s. A third 60% webber takes it to 6.4 m/s.

So you have to use 2x normal webbers to get to almost the same effects as the 90% webber gets.



Yourself prooved its 4 times dammit!

One makes you go to 10ms other to 40. I wil lhelp you 40/10 -> 4

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2013-11-28 19:08:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Why is so hard for you to understand that the serpentis web bonus make a web 4 TIMES stronger. While the baalghorn bonus makes a neutralizer 75% stronger.

There is a HUGE difference there!

Webs at 90% are much more absolute, specially when combined with superior firepower of serpentis ship. The shisp are not hugely OP, but they clearly have the most sinergetic bonus set !

I don't think the bonus need to be removed. But it could be reduced to 7.5% per level on the vindicator and left alone in the vigilant. The daredevil is harder to emit a precise diagnostics

Where do you get the 4 times from?

If you take a ship that goes 100 m/s and 90% web it, it will do 10 m/s. Now take a normal 60% web. You will take that 100 m/s ship down to 40 m/s. The 2nd 60% webber will take it down to 16 m/s. A third 60% webber takes it to 6.4 m/s.

So you have to use 2x normal webbers to get to almost the same effects as the 90% webber gets.



Yourself prooved its 4 times dammit!

One makes you go to 10ms other to 40. I wil lhelp you 40/10 -> 4


You don't get math, I see.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#283 - 2013-11-28 19:10:55 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yourself prooved its 4 times dammit!

One makes you go to 10ms other to 40. I wil lhelp you 40/10 -> 4

You are doing it wrong. You should calculate on how many extra 60% webbers you have to use to gain the same effect as the 90% webbers get, then you can see how many times more it will be.

You can't really say that a 99% web bonus as we had earlier on our Vindicators will be 40 times stronger than a normal 60% web. Also that a ship that does 100 m/s will go to 1 m/s with a 99% webber while the 60% one will take it to 40 m/s.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Naomi Anthar
#284 - 2013-11-28 19:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
NightmareX wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
You are total ******, i'm calling it now. No i actually i raped last rail dd with lol kiting coercer kiting at 19/20km with mwd.
Actually I'm OK WITH STRONG VINDI AS IT IS.
I'm not ok with other pirate ships like Sansha nation mostly to be left as piece of **** you idiot.

Well first of all, if you have to start calling others for different things here, it's a pretty clear sign that you have lost this discussion.


I lost something - but its patience. In matter of facts i'm winner.

My arguments : Sansha ships are **** - they need buff. Your counterarguments ? COMPLETLY NONE
Your argument Serpentis ships are strong and they should remain strong. My stance : i'm completly ok with this but bring other pirate ships to this level.

Now yeah i lost PATIENCE, because of ignorant posters like you who would gladly remove Sansha lineup from game.
All you care is some stupid painted megathron called vindicator.
There is more than that - and i fight for all ships to be viable and be real powerful option.

Go away you bugger ... if you would realize what i'm trying to achieve here you would just unsub from this game after realizing your mental impotence.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#285 - 2013-11-28 19:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Naomi Anthar wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
You are total ******, i'm calling it now. No i actually i raped last rail dd with lol kiting coercer kiting at 19/20km with mwd.
Actually I'm OK WITH STRONG VINDI AS IT IS.
I'm not ok with other pirate ships like Sansha nation mostly to be left as piece of **** you idiot.

Well first of all, if you have to start calling others for different things here, it's a pretty clear sign that you have lost this discussion.


I lost something - but its patience. In matter of facts i'm winner.

My arguments : Sansha ships are **** - they need buff. Your counterarguments ? COMPLETLY NOONE
Your argument Serpentis ships are strong and they should remain strong. My stance : i'm completly ok with this but bring other pirate ships to this level.

Now yeah i lost PATIENCE, because of ignorant posters like you who would gladly remove Sansha lineup from game.
All you care is some stupid painted megathron called vindicator.
There is more than that - and i fight for all ships to be viable and be real powerful option.

Go away you bugger ... if you would realize what i'm trying to achieve here you would just unsub from this game after realizing your mental impotence.

Do you have experience in flying the different pirate battleships?

If not, you shouldn't really be talking in here.

Anyone who use the different bonuses the different pirate battleships have will never say any of the bonuses the different pirate battleships have are overpowered in any ways or form to each others.

If a Bhaalgorn is fighting a Vindicator, the Bhaalgorn pilot will never complain about the web strenght in the same way as i who are in a Vindicator will never complain about the Bhaalgorn raping my cap. And if a Rattlesnake are fighting my Vindicator, he will just laugh at me because i will have a big issue of breaking his shield tank as the Rattlesnake have a bonus to tanking in the same way as the Rattlesnake will have a big issue by getting away from my webber. And the same goes through the rest of the pirate battleships. All of the pirate battleships are balanced to each others.

This is the fact. And if you don't like that, then just avoid getting into fights with those ships if you think they are so op and dangerous.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2013-11-28 19:20:51 UTC
Anya Klibor wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Why is so hard for you to understand that the serpentis web bonus make a web 4 TIMES stronger. While the baalghorn bonus makes a neutralizer 75% stronger.

There is a HUGE difference there!

Webs at 90% are much more absolute, specially when combined with superior firepower of serpentis ship. The shisp are not hugely OP, but they clearly have the most sinergetic bonus set !

I don't think the bonus need to be removed. But it could be reduced to 7.5% per level on the vindicator and left alone in the vigilant. The daredevil is harder to emit a precise diagnostics

Where do you get the 4 times from?

If you take a ship that goes 100 m/s and 90% web it, it will do 10 m/s. Now take a normal 60% web. You will take that 100 m/s ship down to 40 m/s. The 2nd 60% webber will take it down to 16 m/s. A third 60% webber takes it to 6.4 m/s.

So you have to use 2x normal webbers to get to almost the same effects as the 90% webber gets.



Yourself prooved its 4 times dammit!

One makes you go to 10ms other to 40. I wil lhelp you 40/10 -> 4


You don't get math, I see.


Nope.. I do understand it.. contrary to you.

How many times 8 is larger denominator than 2? You know its 4 right? By Nighamte math its 3.. because if you divide it by 2 3 times you get same result.

no.. I do now math. You are the one that clearly cannot grasp the difference between a composite series and a multiplier factor on a function.


Now go back to the school.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2013-11-28 19:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
NightmareX wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yourself prooved its 4 times dammit!

One makes you go to 10ms other to 40. I wil lhelp you 40/10 -> 4

You are doing it wrong. You should calculate on how many extra 60% webbers you have to use to gain the same effect as the 90% webbers get, then you can see how many times more it will be.

You can't really say that a 99% web bonus as we had earlier on our Vindicators will be 40 times stronger than a normal 60% web. Also that a ship that does 100 m/s will go to 1 m/s with a 99% webber while the 60% one will take it to 40 m/s.



No.. I am not doing it wrong. Will reiterate my post.

8 is 4 times more than 2. Under your approach it would be 3, because if you divide 8 by 2 for 3 time syou get same value.

A composite series is not same thing as a function. Mathematically 90% web is 4 times strogner than 60% web. If you try to rerpesent in a composite serie sof independent terms you would need only 2 terms repeating. YEat that does nto mean its only 2 times more.

Its simple math, I understand the confusion, but peopel need to realize the difference between the 2 things.


Simple fact, the bonus makes a web 4 times stronger! Its compeltely irrelevant for tha statement that you can achieve alsmot same result making a COMPOSITION .

F(F(x)) = 4*F(X) doe snot mean that F is 2*

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Naomi Anthar
#288 - 2013-11-28 19:25:22 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
You are total ******, i'm calling it now. No i actually i raped last rail dd with lol kiting coercer kiting at 19/20km with mwd.
Actually I'm OK WITH STRONG VINDI AS IT IS.
I'm not ok with other pirate ships like Sansha nation mostly to be left as piece of **** you idiot.

Well first of all, if you have to start calling others for different things here, it's a pretty clear sign that you have lost this discussion.


I lost something - but its patience. In matter of facts i'm winner.

My arguments : Sansha ships are **** - they need buff. Your counterarguments ? COMPLETLY NOONE
Your argument Serpentis ships are strong and they should remain strong. My stance : i'm completly ok with this but bring other pirate ships to this level.

Now yeah i lost PATIENCE, because of ignorant posters like you who would gladly remove Sansha lineup from game.
All you care is some stupid painted megathron called vindicator.
There is more than that - and i fight for all ships to be viable and be real powerful option.

Go away you bugger ... if you would realize what i'm trying to achieve here you would just unsub from this game after realizing your mental impotence.

Do you have experience in flying the different pirate battleships?

If not, you shouldn't really be talking in here.


Anyone who use the different bonuses the different pirate battleships have will never say any of the bonuses the different pirate battleships are overpowered in any ways to each others.

If a Bhaalgorn is fighting a Vindicator, the Bhaalgorn pilot will never complain about the web effect in the same way as i who are in a Vindicator will never complain about the Bhaalgorn raping my cap. And the same goes through all of the pirate battleships. All of the pirate battleships are balanced to each others.

This is the fact. And if you don't like that, then just avoid getting into fights with those ships if you think they are so op.


All you talk is vindi this, vindi that . Bhaal this , bhaal that.

AND THAT IS MY FRIGGIN PROBLEM ... there are other ships around who should be equally powerful (but diffrent at same time) AND IT'S NOT CASE.
You are not going to tell me daredevil is on same power level as succubus, or cynabal as strong as phantasm ?

That's what i'm talking about. Surge of power to ships that need it, not nerfing stupid vindicator ... dude WHAT THE HELL you are talking about. Trying to tell me i want something i do not actually is kinda full ****** - and you are surprised i lost my patience ?

In the end you want same thing , that i want. But you just cannot comprehend that. And yes i hate idiots ;/
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#289 - 2013-11-28 19:29:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
No.. I am not doing it wrong. Will reiterate my post.

8 is 4 times more than 2. Under your approach it would be 3, because if you divide 8 by 2 for 3 time syou get same value.

A composite series is not same thing as a function. Mathematically 90% web is 4 times strogner than 60% web. If you try to rerpesent in a composite serie sof independent terms you would need only 2 terms repeating. YEat that does nto mean its only 2 times more.

Its simple math, I understand the confusion, but peopel need to realize the difference between the 2 things.

No, theoretically, it's just 30% stronger, because 90% - 60% = 30% Blink.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#290 - 2013-11-28 19:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Naomi Anthar wrote:
All you talk is vindi this, vindi that . Bhaal this , bhaal that.

AND THAT IS MY FRIGGIN PROBLEM ... there are other ships around who should be equally powerful (but diffrent at same time) AND IT'S NOT CASE.
You are not going to tell me daredevil is on same power level as succubus, or cynabal as strong as phantasm ?

That's what i'm talking about. Surge of power to ships that need it, not nerfing stupid vindicator ... dude WHAT THE HELL you are talking about. Trying to tell me i want something i do not actually is kinda full ****** - and you are surprised i lost my patience ?

In the end you want same thing , that i want. But you just cannot comprehend that. And yes i hate idiots ;/

Excuses after excuses. If you don't have experience in flying those ships and don't know how they works in real PVP, then you shouldn't be talking about what's op or not op.

Are you just specs whoring and comparing specs vs specs?

In that case, lol.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2013-11-28 19:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Gigan Amilupar
Guys, guys. Ok. My opinion on 90% webs aside, CCP basically said that they might look at the strength of the web bonus sometime, maybe. And despite how much people may argue that looking at this bonus sideways might break all the utility of the daredevil, a ship I am not familiar enough with to comment on, nothing should be considered immune to a second look during the balance pass. You don't have to like it, I for one, don't like the rapid missile launcher changes. But that doesn't mean CCP should never have looked at them.


And yes, Sansha ships do need a buff. CCP has already acknowledged that there is a serious problem with both the succubus and the phantasm.

Can we all relax now?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2013-11-28 19:38:47 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
No.. I am not doing it wrong. Will reiterate my post.

8 is 4 times more than 2. Under your approach it would be 3, because if you divide 8 by 2 for 3 time syou get same value.

A composite series is not same thing as a function. Mathematically 90% web is 4 times strogner than 60% web. If you try to rerpesent in a composite serie sof independent terms you would need only 2 terms repeating. YEat that does nto mean its only 2 times more.

Its simple math, I understand the confusion, but peopel need to realize the difference between the 2 things.

No, theoretically, it's just 30% stronger, because 90% - 60% = 30% Blink.



You joking your you seriously math challenged? because its hard to get mathematical sarcasm on the internet.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#293 - 2013-11-28 19:49:28 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You joking your you seriously math challenged? because its hard to get mathematical sarcasm on the internet.

Remember, this is about going from 0 to 100% on the bonuses. If something is giving you 60% bonus and another thing of the same gives you 90%, it's basicly 30% stronger than the 60% one.

If a ship is doing 10 m/s as normal (just to take an example). Will the 90% webber be 4 times stronger than the 60%webber when the ships is doing 1 m/s with the 90% webber over 4 m/s with the 60% webber?

For you it will, but for me the speeds are so low anyways that it wouldn't really matter.

Taking a ship to 10 m/s or 16 m/s wont matter as that is so slow that the ship can't do anything to get out anyways.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Naomi Anthar
#294 - 2013-11-28 19:50:26 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
All you talk is vindi this, vindi that . Bhaal this , bhaal that.

AND THAT IS MY FRIGGIN PROBLEM ... there are other ships around who should be equally powerful (but diffrent at same time) AND IT'S NOT CASE.
You are not going to tell me daredevil is on same power level as succubus, or cynabal as strong as phantasm ?

That's what i'm talking about. Surge of power to ships that need it, not nerfing stupid vindicator ... dude WHAT THE HELL you are talking about. Trying to tell me i want something i do not actually is kinda full ****** - and you are surprised i lost my patience ?

In the end you want same thing , that i want. But you just cannot comprehend that. And yes i hate idiots ;/

Excuses after excuses. If you don't have experience in flying those ships and don't know how they works in real PVP, then you shouldn't be talking about what's op or not op.

Are you just specs whoring and comparing specs vs specs?

In that case, lol.


I made 0 excuses here ... completly 0. I will say more. No fucks are given about your problem with "Naomi Anthar wants vindi nerfed" ... dude you are stupid and problematic fool. No offence actually. That is fact you got some weird imagination that i got problems with some stuff while its not TRUE.

Take drugs off. I'm done.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#295 - 2013-11-28 19:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Quote:
"Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
First off none of these ships even with this bonus are OP at all. The Daredevil isn't anything like it use to be, and can't compete with AFs or interceptors at all, and has issues with other faction ships, so OP nope. The other 2 are rarely even used for PvP, which right there says they aren't OP. What I can't understand with CCP anymore is why you keep fixing things that aren't broke. Leave them be. Fix Rapids, hell look into most missiles, rebalance priate faction ships, etc, but don't fix things that don't need it.
The 90% is nice, but it still has less then 20km even with faction webs, so no matter what you have to get close, and as these ships are slow (beisdes the DD), only someone with some trick up their sleeve or someone not knowing what the ships can do ever get close to them. Only these and blood get that bonus, leave it alone, it's a cool bonus that has been in EVE for a good while with no issues. Just like changing how the Cruifier ,Golem, etc look, why? There is no need to. Get the SoE BS out, make a Cald/Min faction pirate race and you have new ship designs. Stop changing what EVE is. I already know a few people who rarely play now or stopped all together because they believe CCP is going too far with all this, I'm beginning to wonder if they are right.
STOP fixing things that don't need fix and focus on REAL issues. "

Naomi Anthar wrote:

Another fool...

Read my post above... dude PIRATE SHIPS ARE NOT OK AT ALL. Just because you never ever seen succubus ingame or phantasm. Does not mean those ships are limited edition. THOSE SHIPS NEED LOVE NOW. You don't see them because they are DEEP BELOW standard t1 ships. Yes they are not just medicore. They are obnoxiously bad and probably most broken and most useless hulls in this game.

Pirate rebalance should be priority above all other hulls.

YES FIX THINGS THAT ARE BROKEN(pirate ships) AND IGNORE MINOR ISSUES Thaddeus is talking about.


Again another dumbass that can't read and thinks he's tough through a computer. IF you read my WHOLE post I say pirate ships DO need rebalanced. All I said was the the web bonus doesn't make those ships OP and that CCP need to focus on fixing things that need it, and to STOP fixing things that aren't broken. Learn to read before you post dumbass. Read my post again before talking ****, and thank god people like you have a screen to hide behind huh. Dumbass...
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#296 - 2013-11-28 19:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Naomi Anthar wrote:
I made 0 excuses here ... completly 0. I will say more. No fucks are given about your problem with "Naomi Anthar wants vindi nerfed" ... dude you are stupid and problematic fool. No offence actually. That is fact you got some weird imagination that i got problems with some stuff while its not TRUE.

Take drugs off. I'm done.

You still haven't answered me on if you have used those pirate battleships enough to have experiences to talk about what's op or not op with them?

Just to make it very clear. You are a pretty new 2012 player while i'm a 2004 player. Guess who have most experience on using different ships under PVP in EVE between me and you?

I already used a Raven Navy Issue back in 2005, so you get the point on how long time i have been using faction and pirate ships.

Oh, you might be an alt. In that case, who are you main character so i can look up that character to see if you have experience in flying those ships?

It's your call.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#297 - 2013-11-28 20:00:07 UTC
Gigan Amilupar wrote:

And yes, Sansha ships do need a buff.

A giant one, yes.

Quote:

CCP has already acknowledged that there is a serious problem with both the succubus and the phantasm.

Nightmare could use soem moar HP to shields... and armor... and a bit larger capacitor wouldn't hurt as well... and... do you think a drone bay is kinda small too..?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#298 - 2013-11-28 20:14:33 UTC
I think CCP realise that all the pirate ships needs rebalancing ... angels needs a speed nerf .. sansha need more everything..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#299 - 2013-11-28 20:32:30 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
... and that CCP need to focus on fixing things that need it, and to STOP fixing things that aren't broken.

It cannot be overemphasized and judging by the several recent screw-ups, their office urgently needs a large neon sign with flashing letters.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#300 - 2013-11-28 20:35:21 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar,

I agree 100%, but do they even still listen to us players like they use to? And even if they do, they need to test EVERYTHING that is going to be changed, and rebalanced on SiSi for at least a couple weeks. No more quick fixes, get back to doing REAL fixes.