Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Exactly. Range control *is* life. That's why you fit a scram, and neut them out. Or why you damp them past your scram range and kite. Or why you can jam them and prevent them from targeting you in any way, regardless of range. I'd say this applies to most ship classes...

Either way, I never claimed to be better than you at PvP. I claimed that you should PvP more - a different thing - so you see how people use neuts in PvP.

Either way, you keep on changing the subject.
You originally mentioned that webs are the most OP EWAR out there. I'm pretty sure most people would disagree. Range-bonused webs? Maybe. But you weren't even referring to those.

I'm pretty sure eliminating the opponent's ability to target you in the first place, or activate any tackle on you whatsoever, will win more fights than pure range control. What's range control if you can't even shoot? Talk about lack of reason.

And while we're at it let's give Guristas ships something better than some ****** missile velocity bonus. How about a weaker form of the cal navy bonuses?

7.5% kinetic, 3% EM/Thermal/Explosive damage per level?

Are you one of those people who thinks triple neut tristans are good? I like engaging them at 0, then not even noticing the neuts as I fly out to 8km.

Webs: so bad, they're the number one choice for filling spare mids.

And, unlike neuts, aren't effectively countered by a utility high or utility mid. An afterburner can compensate for one web, but multiple webs pretty much completely shut down mobility unless you've got an oversized afterburner fit, which is something only a few ships can do effectively.

now how is my ashimmu gonna neut something out if it can get away with an ab!

The problem isn't the web bonus. Not at all. The Vindi is one of a small handful of ships that can look a larger fleet in the eye and then black their eyes, in an outright, point blank fight. Not resorting to nano-snipy-crap. A real, go big or go home brawl. It's a very important ship for small -> Mid gang PVP, because it allows the fleets willing and able to use them the ability to take fights they wouldn't otherwise even be able to think about taking.



The problem MIGHT be in the way webs stack, and the price tag. A properly fit Vindicator is an expensive ship. It represents a significant investment of SP, isk, and commitment to a fight. It SHOULD be able to stand up to larger fleets.

But even in that, vindi's can be undone by ECM. They can be damped into nothingness. They can be neuted. They already have a fairly low lock range.. And they're already a BS, they take a while to lock anyway. With their Commitment to their webs, they often do not fit a cap booster, or if they do, certainly not an ECCM or sensor booster. They are slow, slow slow ships. Even with links, faction, and overheat, their effective web range is still less than half the distance ECM or damps could shut a ship down from. If a Vindicator wants to get anywhere on the battlefield, it pretty much HAS to MWD. That MWD+ a few TP's are going to make it's signature radius absolutely huge. So Even TP's are effective on vindi's, though not as 'right now' effective as just jamming it, still effective.


There is just no reason to change this.

Dev's are saying 'oh well you don't have to lose your minds....'

Well how many pages did we have to get through on the gallente BS thread before Dev's listened when we said a 6 low 5 midslot Megathron was a bad idea.... How long is the marauders thread?

Last I checked, the whole point of F & I forum section was to discuss features and ideas.

Well... CCP has floated the idea of removing the serpentis web bonus.

The community is responding by and large with a resounding 'NO.'

We don't WANT every ship to be a drake with a different skin. You guys did well with the Frigates and cruisers... but since those it's kinda been mis step after mis step.



This change will really really hurt the small to midsize alliances, in particularly in low sec. We rely on our Vindicators and pirate/faction BS to fight people who would otherwise just bury us under drakes. Those are some of our most important ships for counter blob warfare. It's not because they are ridiculously OP Nerf pls! It's because they are well designed, role specific ships that we have to be very selective about when we field and do not field, because they are a significant commitment in isk and material to a fight. Taking those ships out of our arsenal is pretty much going to guarantee that the bigger blob always wins.

Please stop nerfbatting everything that is decent and replacing it with a fall off/trackingfire rate and MWD signature reduction bonus.

Variety, is a very, very good thing.





My opinion anyway....

Quoted for truth

Pay2win

Now shut up.

Why is it that you see a bonus that isn't something that has to do with damage application, you equate it to being "too powerful"? The resist bonuses were considered too powerful and thus were nerfed. You don't look at what makes it powerful in terms of the bonuses, but rather, "This thing is really really good at it's niche and we can't have that!"

Tell me, if this bonus is so freaking incredible, why aren't the Cruor and Ashimmu tearing things apart?

You mention only Serpentis ships. The Dardevil, Vigilant, and Vindicator are close-up, in-your-Goddamn-face brawlers. They have solid HP and DPS. They don't have projection capabilities: they rely on modules for that. They have tracking speed and web bonuses. Sure, once a Vindicator has you with its web it's getting on your ass, but that doesn't mean that the bonus itself is inherently strong. Once again, if it was we'd see a lot more Cruors and Ashimmus tearing fleets apart.

Stop looking at everything so one dimensionally. The Daredevil in particular serves as a terrific solo ship that a newer player can get into (how they get the ISK doesn't matter for this argument). It allows small gangs to take on fleets of nano cruisers or whatever and even the odds.

And the Daredevil is still one of the best solo PvP ships out there. Stop hurting small gangs and solo PvPers because you are incapable of thinking outside of this small cardboard box your cat ***** in.

Give them a 500% bonus to hull reppers as a replacement