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Mobile Depot - Game Breaking Feature

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#381 - 2013-11-28 05:42:40 UTC
Quote:
Its easily the worst and most carebear change every introduced, worse than timers and that's saying something.


Firstly, timers encourage fights, by giving people a chance to defend their assets. Your ideas would lead to timezone ping pong, wherein neither side fights, they just keep exchanging control everytime one of them sleeps.

Secondly, CONCORD in it's many iterations is the worst carebear change ever introduced. That, and the barge buff.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#382 - 2013-11-28 05:55:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Its easily the worst and most carebear change every introduced, worse than timers and that's saying something.


Firstly, timers encourage fights, by giving people a chance to defend their assets. Your ideas would lead to timezone ping pong, wherein neither side fights, they just keep exchanging control everytime one of them sleeps.

Secondly, CONCORD in it's many iterations is the worst carebear change ever introduced. That, and the barge buff.

Timers arguably discourage fights. No one except a very big alliance is going to reinforce a CFC POS and turn up to get owned 24 hour later when the CFC is at full strength. Its why CFC hold so much space, why nobody dared to try to take any of the CFC stations or contest CFC taking over Delve and Period Basis, even though there were no CFC there. Its why Test decided to just give up without a fight after the lagfest caused by timers in 6VDT.

It allowed Goons to fill the system with thousands of pilots and turkey shoot Test as they jumped in. It not only discourages fights its one of the reasons EVE fights are so full of TiDI.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#383 - 2013-11-28 06:01:28 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Ah, I see how it works. Carebares complain about PvPers ruining their game and the whole forum goes into turbojerk mode and pounces on them, but when a PvPer complains that they got outwitted by a carebare then everyone sends them flowers of condolence?

Reading comprehension... It's HARD!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#384 - 2013-11-28 06:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Timers arguably discourage fights. No one except a very big alliance is going to reinforce a CFC POS and turn up to get owned 24 hour later when the CFC is at full strength. Its why CFC hold so much space, why nobody dared to try to take any of the CFC stations or contest CFC taking over Delve and Period Basis, even though there were no CFC there. Its why Test decided to just give up without a fight after the lagfest caused by timers in 6VDT.

It allowed Goons to fill the system with thousands of pilots and turkey shoot Test as they jumped in. It not only discourages fights its one of the reasons EVE fights are so full of TiDI.



Ok, so boo hoo, TEST failed. That's kinda their thing. That does not really have any relevance.

No, timers encourage fights. Your problem is you are only thinking about the CFC. Further, anyone who wants to attempt to take their assets, should be prepared to bring it. If you're not prepared to bring it, well, you lose.

You ask for a situation to be created in which they are not allowed to bring their numbers to bear, rather than create such a situation yourself within the rules that presently exist. You think you should be allowed to slap the bear without facing any consequences yourself for doing so.

And you can't blame timers or the CFC for Tidi. Large groups, in their own self interest, will bring as much force to a situation as they can afford. That's a natural consequence of warfare, in game or out. Especially when the choice consists of "Do I bring what might not be enough guys and risk losing the fight to avoid Tidi?".

Because they don't, nor should they, care about whether their opponent has fun or not.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#385 - 2013-11-28 06:17:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Timers arguably discourage fights. No one except a very big alliance is going to reinforce a CFC POS and turn up to get owned 24 hour later when the CFC is at full strength. Its why CFC hold so much space, why nobody dared to try to take any of the CFC stations or contest CFC taking over Delve and Period Basis, even though there were no CFC there. Its why Test decided to just give up without a fight after the lagfest caused by timers in 6VDT.

It allowed Goons to fill the system with thousands of pilots and turkey shoot Test as they jumped in. It not only discourages fights its one of the reasons EVE fights are so full of TiDI.



Ok, so boo hoo, TEST failed. That's kinda their thing. That does not really have any relevance.

No, timers encourage fights. Your problem is you are only thinking about the CFC. Further, anyone who wants to attempt to take their assets, should be prepared to bring it. If you're not prepared to bring it, well, you lose.

You ask for a situation to be created in which they are not allowed to bring their numbers to bear, rather than create such a situation yourself within the rules that presently exist. You think you should be allowed to slap the bear without facing any consequences yourself for doing so.

And you can't blame timers or the CFC for Tidi. Large groups, in their own self interest, will bring as much force to a situation as they can afford. That's a natural consequence of warfare, in game or out. Especially when the choice consists of "Do I bring what might not be enough guys and risk losing the fight to avoid Tidi?".

Because they don't, nor should they, care about whether their opponent has fun or not.

I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.

I don't ask for anything, I believe that a natural consequence of warfare is that it is highly unpredictable, which is nothing to what EvE warfare is. EvE warfare is like a poor mans version of WoW battlegrounds, except there's only one flag and the players get 24 hours to fill it up with the intention of making the system perform so badly they can't possibly lose.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#386 - 2013-11-28 06:22:43 UTC
good thing we're only a third party, or progodlegend would have to worry about all tens of thousands of us showing up to every single timer

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#387 - 2013-11-28 06:24:26 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.


You don't take Cities or Fortresses with Hit and Run Tactics or Guerrilla warfare. And guess what, those tactics are useful for engaging targets other than the ones designed specifically to attract stand up fights in EVE.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#388 - 2013-11-28 06:32:47 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.


You don't take Cities or Fortresses with Hit and Run Tactics or Guerrilla warfare. And guess what, those tactics are useful for engaging other types of targets in EVE too.

So the Germans didn't bypass the Maginot line and defeat an entrenched and superior force

Hannibal never used a small army to destroy a numerically superior army

Frederick the Great never...

You are entirely and totally wrong, throughout history this has occurred over and over again, using stealth, intelligence, the achilles heel (wonder where that term came from?), the cover of darkness, doing things which others thought were impossible and didn't defend against...

None of this is possible in EVE because of the lame timer system that discourages anything but blob warfare

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2013-11-28 06:33:48 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.

I don't ask for anything, I believe that a natural consequence of warfare is that it is highly unpredictable, which is nothing to what EvE warfare is. EvE warfare is like a poor mans version of WoW battlegrounds, except there's only one flag and the players get 24 hours to fill it up with the intention of making the system perform so badly they can't possibly lose.
Except as I understand that high unpredictability didn't play out without the timers. Instead it resulted in a predictable repetition of sov ping pong exploiting enemy points of inactivity to avoid fights. The result wasn't hit and run, just the same dog pile we have now to quickly burn things down, only there was no incentive for opposing dog piles to meet up and duke it out.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#390 - 2013-11-28 06:35:09 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.

You don't take Cities or Fortresses with Hit and Run Tactics or Guerrilla warfare. And guess what, those tactics are useful for engaging targets other than the ones designed specifically to attract stand up fights in EVE.

I don't get it, why all the anger, the frustration?

Didn't you get enough of the large nullbear tears, the goon siphon tears

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#391 - 2013-11-28 06:35:40 UTC
Yeah, clearly without timers smaller alliances will be able to defend their space m-
I can't. I just can't. This level of bullshit is just too much.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#392 - 2013-11-28 06:36:26 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
You got outsmarted by your prey, who was using the tools available to him to the fullest. Why so mad?


This.

Learn a lesson. Every solo player except the newest has the tools necessary to pop the depot within the 60 second timeframe.

A cruiser can do it in 25 seconds comfortably, and an assault frigate has little trouble doing it in 40 seconds.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#393 - 2013-11-28 06:37:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Ok, so boo hoo, TEST failed. That's kinda their thing. That does not really have any relevance.

No, timers encourage fights. Your problem is you are only thinking about the CFC. Further, anyone who wants to attempt to take their assets, should be prepared to bring it. If you're not prepared to bring it, well, you lose.

You ask for a situation to be created in which they are not allowed to bring their numbers to bear, rather than create such a situation yourself within the rules that presently exist. You think you should be allowed to slap the bear without facing any consequences yourself for doing so.

And you can't blame timers or the CFC for Tidi. Large groups, in their own self interest, will bring as much force to a situation as they can afford. That's a natural consequence of warfare, in game or out. Especially when the choice consists of "Do I bring what might not be enough guys and risk losing the fight to avoid Tidi?".

Because they don't, nor should they, care about whether their opponent has fun or not.


Getting pretty off topic here but,

loading a system with alts and non combatants to limit how many enemies can jump in to defend their territory... (6VDT)

decided NOT encouraging fights.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#394 - 2013-11-28 06:39:02 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.

I don't ask for anything, I believe that a natural consequence of warfare is that it is highly unpredictable, which is nothing to what EvE warfare is. EvE warfare is like a poor mans version of WoW battlegrounds, except there's only one flag and the players get 24 hours to fill it up with the intention of making the system perform so badly they can't possibly lose.
Except as I understand that high unpredictability didn't play out without the timers. Instead it resulted in a predictable repetition of sov ping pong exploiting enemy points of inactivity to avoid fights. The result wasn't hit and run, just the same dog pile we have now to quickly burn things down, only there was no incentive for opposing dog piles to meet up and duke it out.

Implementing a completely shite system like timers is worse than the ping pong. It creates stagnation without any way for players to work around timers. With the ping pong you could at least have recruited a balanced global playerbase instead of just US or just Euro or just Russian. That was the reason for ping pong, poor recruiting, they deserved it for not being more organized.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#395 - 2013-11-28 06:40:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, clearly without timers smaller alliances will be able to defend their space m-
I can't. I just can't. This level of bullshit is just too much.

LMAO, like you Goons care about 'the small guy'. So many bleeding hearts come out to play when your timer monopoly is criticized.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#396 - 2013-11-28 06:42:21 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.

I don't ask for anything, I believe that a natural consequence of warfare is that it is highly unpredictable, which is nothing to what EvE warfare is. EvE warfare is like a poor mans version of WoW battlegrounds, except there's only one flag and the players get 24 hours to fill it up with the intention of making the system perform so badly they can't possibly lose.


*rolleyes*

You show no experience whatsoever with EVE (or irl) warfare, which is considerably more fluid than you are giving it credit for. Furthermore, you deride planning and grand strategy as being something that shouldn't exist.

Warfare is something you are supposed to plan out, map out, and mathhammer down to minutiae, because even the little numbers matter. Yes, yes, the old "no plan survives contact with the enemy" adage, but there's another one I learned since I joined the service. "Fail to plan, plan to fail".

Have you ever actually been in a big fight?

Not some numbskullery with 40 or 50 people. With a gigantic fleet, five or six hundred people trying to kill each other and keep their buddies alive. With 1 full fleet commander, 10 or 12 sub commanders, all relaying commands down to their subordinates.

Cynos, bombers, doomsdays, all can have a wide reaching effect on the battlefield. It's nothing like "line up and shoot at each other".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#397 - 2013-11-28 06:56:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.

I don't ask for anything, I believe that a natural consequence of warfare is that it is highly unpredictable, which is nothing to what EvE warfare is. EvE warfare is like a poor mans version of WoW battlegrounds, except there's only one flag and the players get 24 hours to fill it up with the intention of making the system perform so badly they can't possibly lose.


*rolleyes*

You show no experience whatsoever with EVE (or irl) warfare, which is considerably more fluid than you are giving it credit for. Furthermore, you deride planning and grand strategy as being something that shouldn't exist.

Warfare is something you are supposed to plan out, map out, and mathhammer down to minutiae, because even the little numbers matter. Yes, yes, the old "no plan survives contact with the enemy" adage, but there's another one I learned since I joined the service. "Fail to plan, plan to fail".

Have you ever actually been in a big fight?

Not some numbskullery with 40 or 50 people. With a gigantic fleet, five or six hundred people trying to kill each other and keep their buddies alive. With 1 full fleet commander, 10 or 12 sub commanders, all relaying commands down to their subordinates.

Cynos, bombers, doomsdays, all can have a wide reaching effect on the battlefield. It's nothing like "line up and shoot at each other".

I would rather eat dog crap than involve myself in that predictable unexciting garbage you call 'warfare'. Now if I was able to do hit and run cloaky raids on enemy structures, and affect the ability of the enemy to resupply, rearm, reinforce (like in a real war) sure I would be involved. Until then you can enjoy clicking your modules and seeing them activate 5 minutes later, 4 minutes after your ship blew up, while the system continues to fill with enemies because you're running at different time frames.

Doesn't that sound sweet... not

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#398 - 2013-11-28 07:04:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand basic things like spontaneity, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare or any of the other sorts of combat that would normally occur in a normal game that didn't model 17th century "line at at x time and shoot each other" doctrine.

I don't ask for anything, I believe that a natural consequence of warfare is that it is highly unpredictable, which is nothing to what EvE warfare is. EvE warfare is like a poor mans version of WoW battlegrounds, except there's only one flag and the players get 24 hours to fill it up with the intention of making the system perform so badly they can't possibly lose.


*rolleyes*

You show no experience whatsoever with EVE (or irl) warfare, which is considerably more fluid than you are giving it credit for. Furthermore, you deride planning and grand strategy as being something that shouldn't exist.

Warfare is something you are supposed to plan out, map out, and mathhammer down to minutiae, because even the little numbers matter. Yes, yes, the old "no plan survives contact with the enemy" adage, but there's another one I learned since I joined the service. "Fail to plan, plan to fail".

Have you ever actually been in a big fight?

Not some numbskullery with 40 or 50 people. With a gigantic fleet, five or six hundred people trying to kill each other and keep their buddies alive. With 1 full fleet commander, 10 or 12 sub commanders, all relaying commands down to their subordinates.

Cynos, bombers, doomsdays, all can have a wide reaching effect on the battlefield. It's nothing like "line up and shoot at each other".

just pressing f1, or assigning drones, rite

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#399 - 2013-11-28 07:06:29 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I would rather eat dog crap than involve myself in that predictable unexciting garbage you call 'warfare'. Now if I was able to do hit and run cloaky raids on enemy structures, and affect the ability of the enemy to resupply, rearm, reinforce (like in a real war) sure I would be involved. Until then you can enjoy clicking your modules and seeing them activate 5 minutes later, 4 minutes after your ship blew up, while the system continues to fill with enemies because you're running at different time frames.

Doesn't that sound sweet... not


So, you don't have any experience in what you're talking about, then?

Anyway, why do you add the "enemy structures" part onto that? Stop making petty little things so conditional.

This is the fact of the matter. If you want to attack anyone's established assets, you have to fight them for it. If you don't want to or can't, then you are just spitting in the wind.

There are plenty of things you can actually do to harry and screw with enemy battlegroups. Pipebombing is quite notable for that, as well as bubbling entry gates, and making bombing runs.

But you seem to think that unless your conditon of being able to do all of these things by yourself is met, that EVE warfare is a failure. Which simply isn't true.

You can bombing run people. But you can't do it by yourself, because those people (smartly) travel in groups. They do this precisely for the reason that they don't want their people picked off by solo anklebiters like that. They behave smartly to mitigate someone getting one-shot-no-thought kills on them.

And that's the end of it. If you want to be solo, your targets are restricted to small groups.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#400 - 2013-11-28 07:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
You know, I think I realize what your obsession with timers and structures is.

It's mostly tied in with your first attempts to hunt ratters in your shield tanked Proteus, trying to kill the "nullbears". Well, you didn't make any difference. No one cared.

So you tried to take out a poco or something. You even posted in C&P looking for mercs to do it. That also, you failed.

And then you started your little crusade about timers. But it's tied into your failure to make any kind of difference out in nullsec by yourself. And that's just it.

You think you get to hurt "them." You think you're entitled to actually inflict some harm that they will feel by yourself. And that's what drives all your little rants and all your nonsense on the forums.

Basically, you are a less illiterate Harry Forever.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.