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The Marmite Collective Wardeccing... for a good cause ? Really ?

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J'mee Leggs
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#201 - 2013-11-28 00:24:56 UTC
Obmud wrote:

To the person who said i want the wardec lifted... right, Because the Viziam get wardecced so much. -.-


So this doesn't even affect you, you're just waving your space honor around to stir up drama? You sir are a troll.

Good for Marmite. They can offer whatever terms of surrender they want. trying to find some arbitrary distinction to classify it as blackmail is asinine. ALL terms of surrender are blackmail I.E. do what we say or we will keep shooting you. If they wanna turn their normal style of gameplay towards helping those in need then more power to them.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-11-28 00:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: BKM Industries
Ok well that would still not aply to us. Cause we would not end a war without the agreed terms being acted on by the otehr party. So the war would not have ended. So you are talking about some other alliance then.

I am sure we could come up with tons of what ifs. I mean someone is selling a bunch of T2 BPO's and donating the "profits" to P4G. Well who decieds what the profits are? Is it the sales minus the cost? Or maybe the sales minus the cost and 1 years profit caose they are ditching it?

Maybe people could scam in many ways in this. I think assuming all of them will happen or pointing out new ones does not help the the good of what CCP is doing here. If someone is running a scam or someone thinks xxx is then they should inform CCP. I think just pointing fingers on the forums and saying maybe they are a scam is a waste of time for CCP as well as others. But slander is part of this game.

I do tons of charity work in real life. I would be willing to bet all my isk in game (not the P4G isk) that I do more then 99.99% of the people in this game if you look at what I give and what I make in real life. I am not butt hurt someone is worried I may scam and I am glad they brought it up and CCP knows to check me. They should have already known that from the mail informing them of the war dec I paid for against them.

On the same note about the drive do you think people should not be able to list it in an auction on the forums? What about Eve Radio (we war deced them too) can they say Plex for Good on the radio? Would it not give that "certain level of collaboration" impression? If you start saying xxxx or yyyy can not say it then you need to look at everyone who can and see what is just. Cause why just say mercenaries can not use it but traders and people on the radio can.


EDIT: J'mee Leggs well said. I love playing with you guys. If you ever want the links of the videos I made from our fights let me know. All the real life money I get from the youtube channel goes to different charities.
type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Jimmy O'Shanty
The Westies
#203 - 2013-11-28 00:28:41 UTC
Wouldn't it be funny if after receiving their Plex for Good donations, Marmite kept the war decs active anyway. Lol
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#204 - 2013-11-28 00:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Chastot
If that was directed at me i think you best Re read my post because I think you may have misunderstood me

Or I might have a bit too...

Regardless if you think they have completed their end of the bargain I assume you would drop the Dec. And there is now no way for them to try and game your own system to their benefit ie trick you. Your use of non in game features for an alternative payment has backing from CCP. Which comes off as somewhat favouritism

I'm not going to comment on other situations as that's a whole other can of worms and details and besides, this threads about you guys.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#205 - 2013-11-28 00:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: BKM Industries
Jill Chastot wrote:
If that was directed at me i think you best Re read my post because I think you may have misunderstood me


I do understand you are saying a what if? Cause no one has paid us and no way someone could scam cause the war would not end till I got the isk or plex or proof of the donation. So it would not be directed at myself or my alliance.

I am going for food now. I said that how many hours ago in game? lol.....
type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#206 - 2013-11-28 00:46:20 UTC
Well do enjoy, we shall leave this at the agreement of disagreements.

If you get back about my comments regarding things I have said I'll be glad to pick the conversation back up

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2013-11-28 01:00:30 UTC
What an odd thread.

Corps wardec to extort ISK on a regular basis (often far more than a PLEX costs) and that is OK by the rules.

However a wardec that says instead of giving us the 600 mill ISK ... this time give it to charity is somehow unethical????

Presumably the real issue is not having a choice of charity, some people possibly feeling the Philippines charity is unworthy ... so what if you said "you are wardecced, to remove it you can either give a plex to this specified charity OR pay us the normal ransom of one plex worth of ISK" ... would that keep people happy ????
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#208 - 2013-11-28 01:08:31 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
What an odd thread.

Corps wardec to extort ISK on a regular basis (often far more than a PLEX costs) and that is OK by the rules.

However a wardec that says instead of giving us the 600 mill ISK ... this time give it to charity is somehow unethical????

Presumably the real issue is not having a choice of charity, some people possibly feeling the Philippines charity is unworthy ... so what if you said "you are wardecced, to remove it you can either give a plex to this specified charity OR pay us the normal ransom of one plex worth of ISK" ... would that keep people happy ????



The difference is one is in game, the other is blackmailing for a real life action. In game is only meant to affect in game, not actual life. This sounds like it's an EULA violation to me in that area.
Marmite could of course simply try extorting 600 Mil isk with no mention of what it is for. And then choose to use it for the PLEX.
But that is then their choice to partake in a donation, not extortion for a donation. Quite different things.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#209 - 2013-11-28 01:16:02 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
What an odd thread.

Corps wardec to extort ISK on a regular basis (often far more than a PLEX costs) and that is OK by the rules.

However a wardec that says instead of giving us the 600 mill ISK ... this time give it to charity is somehow unethical????

Presumably the real issue is not having a choice of charity, some people possibly feeling the Philippines charity is unworthy ... so what if you said "you are wardecced, to remove it you can either give a plex to this specified charity OR pay us the normal ransom of one plex worth of ISK" ... would that keep people happy ????




No the OP just feels very impotent because of the whole wardec situation, as we all know if you get wardecced you might as well uninstall the game because you have no other option than dying or just not logging in. And just as he's too dumb to figure out he has options he's also dumb enough to think/hope that this whole plex for charity issue might get him off the hook.


Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#210 - 2013-11-28 01:17:38 UTC
These incursion runners with their 100 mil an hour are the dirty bankers of the world, causing inflation and laughing as hard working war deccers try to help out people in need. The only solution is to close down all high sec incursions till this is over or 1000 plexes have been handed over. Their malicious actions have not gone unseen.

Also it would be nice to see the bot, sorry renters, cough up an extra few bill to help. They don't need it, they are machine men!

Also buff provi cos we got no isk and are very sad but wanting to help.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#211 - 2013-11-28 02:42:51 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

I've spoken with the GM Team regarding this, and the decision is quite simple.

Corporate extortion via demand for payment to cease hostilities is a valid game mechanic.

If this valid game mechanic is being used as a method of raising ISK for a good cause, then CCP will not intervene.



This inspires me to use some other valid game mechanics to raise funds for a good cause.

Big smile

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#212 - 2013-11-28 02:59:38 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

I've spoken with the GM Team regarding this, and the decision is quite simple.

Corporate extortion via demand for payment to cease hostilities is a valid game mechanic.

If this valid game mechanic is being used as a method of raising ISK for a good cause, then CCP will not intervene.


This is however not being charged with Isk Falcon.
Which changes it.
They are being demanded to pay a plex for good, not simply a random ISK ransom.

So is it now allowed to demand payment to a real life organisation? I didn't think such real world transactions were permitted.

I get that it's not much different from charging isk, then choosing to spend the isk on plex, and choosing to donate those plex.
But it is different and it is cutting very very close to the RMT line, even if a charity is the RMT beneficiary.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#213 - 2013-11-28 03:07:56 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

I've spoken with the GM Team regarding this, and the decision is quite simple.

Corporate extortion via demand for payment to cease hostilities is a valid game mechanic.

If this valid game mechanic is being used as a method of raising ISK for a good cause, then CCP will not intervene.


This is however not being charged with Isk Falcon.
Which changes it.
They are being demanded to pay a plex for good, not simply a random ISK ransom.

So is it now allowed to demand payment to a real life organisation? I didn't think such real world transactions were permitted.

I get that it's not much different from charging isk, then choosing to spend the isk on plex, and choosing to donate those plex.
But it is different and it is cutting very very close to the RMT line, even if a charity is the RMT beneficiary.


CCP is giving cash to a charity, cash that came from players. I don't see a problem with that. You might as well accuse CCP of RMT by paying their staff.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#214 - 2013-11-28 03:35:51 UTC
Not sure how Nevyn Auscent can see this even close to RMTing. If I log in right now and send you a mail telling you to send me a plex right now or I will have my alliance war dec you. I bet you would not say that is RMTing. Yet somehow you think it is when I am doing it and giving that plex to charity. Many people including myself are doing anything we can in a game to help people who have lost everything. Why not use the game you play to have fun with to good in the real life world?

type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#215 - 2013-11-28 04:04:06 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
I honestly doubt that was you're original intention for the scheme.

Maybe you are raising more plex for the cause but I worry about how this will affect CCP in future attempts at plex for good. We are at a very gray area in regards to blurring rl and the game...


nope.

Still pretty black and white: unspeakable villainy is allowed in game. No unspeakable villainy is occurring out of game. (In fact some good is being done out of game.)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#216 - 2013-11-28 04:06:32 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
What an odd thread.

Corps wardec to extort ISK on a regular basis (often far more than a PLEX costs) and that is OK by the rules.

However a wardec that says instead of giving us the 600 mill ISK ... this time give it to charity is somehow unethical????

Presumably the real issue is not having a choice of charity, some people possibly feeling the Philippines charity is unworthy ... so what if you said "you are wardecced, to remove it you can either give a plex to this specified charity OR pay us the normal ransom of one plex worth of ISK" ... would that keep people happy ????



The difference is one is in game, the other is blackmailing for a real life action. In game is only meant to affect in game, not actual life. This sounds like it's an EULA violation to me in that area.
Marmite could of course simply try extorting 600 Mil isk with no mention of what it is for. And then choose to use it for the PLEX.
But that is then their choice to partake in a donation, not extortion for a donation. Quite different things.


Contracting a PLEX is a pretty textbook "in game" action.

Later, CCP donate money to a charity, but that has no meaningful effect on the transaction between Marmite and their client.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#217 - 2013-11-28 04:39:44 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The difference is one is in game, the other is blackmailing for a real life action. In game is only meant to affect in game, not actual life. This sounds like it's an EULA violation to me in that area.

Then maybe you should read the EULA.

Oh god.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#218 - 2013-11-28 04:42:58 UTC
Obmud wrote:
So I log back to eve to see the marmites wardeccing left and right.

Here's the mail they sent out with the decs:

"We thought it would be a good idea to war dec alliances. And if they want to surrender they will have to donate a plex to the lex for good campaign. We just want to do something to support the Plex for good campaign of ccp".

I have several problems with this...

This leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, i understand when people bully others in eve just for their sheer pleasure and the harvest of tears, some (if not all) of the best stories in eve have come through the loss of someone else and they following rage and machoism is just the icing of the cake. However, why do you have to mix this with a tragedy that happened in real life ?

Can we PLEASE keep this separate ? How much and if i donated something to the philippines is my personal matter, i dont want to talk about it in eve, i dont even want to lay out how much i sent, it's none of your guys business and i certainly don't want to be blackmailed into a RL activity by anyone nomatter how "good" it is. You can dec me all day long just to be a ****, thats completely fine, this is eve in the end.

I would like to play a game when i play the game and not have this in my face all the time, especially since we come from all walks of life, i can think of alot of examples where such humanitarian aid would be a slap in your face if you just come from the wrong country or different ideology when in fact you would just love to play the game. (not in this case maybe, but where do you draw the line ?)

Plex for Good through CCP is fine, it's something i can choose to do freely and i think its great that ccp took action on behalf of the community. But this ? What if they use it as a scam to make money ?
What if they lift the dec afterwards and then dec you again but this time for other reasons ? How... i dont even... ???

I'm probably getting flamed for this but i can't make sense of it and would love to get some input from you guys.

(no, i didnt get wardecced, this is my main and he's in an npc corp, no i'm not butthurt, no eve is not dieing, no it's not my brother who used this account)


Thank you for the Lulz... This is no different then any other operation in EVE to Raise isk for corp or otherwise... Harvesting Rocks, Manufacturing, Looting in missions, Or blowing up people and salvaging the tears.... This is all part of Eve. Also for a Great Cause! I Raise my Beer to you Marmite.. this is a Cause I can respect your Mercenary ways over!
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#219 - 2013-11-28 04:43:05 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
This is however not being charged with Isk Falcon.
Which changes it.
They are being demanded to pay a plex for good, not simply a random ISK ransom.

So is it now allowed to demand payment to a real life organisation? I didn't think such real world transactions were permitted

PLEX isn't used in real world transactions. It's a video game item with no value in the real world.

Oh god.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#220 - 2013-11-28 05:56:41 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

I've spoken with the GM Team regarding this, and the decision is quite simple.

Corporate extortion via demand for payment to cease hostilities is a valid game mechanic.

If this valid game mechanic is being used as a method of raising ISK for a good cause, then CCP will not intervene.


This is however not being charged with Isk Falcon.
Which changes it.
They are being demanded to pay a plex for good, not simply a random ISK ransom.

So is it now allowed to demand payment to a real life organisation? I didn't think such real world transactions were permitted.

I get that it's not much different from charging isk, then choosing to spend the isk on plex, and choosing to donate those plex.
But it is different and it is cutting very very close to the RMT line, even if a charity is the RMT beneficiary.


You can pretty much charge whatever in game transaction you please for cessation of hostilies.

I've heard of wardecs being dropped in exchange for ten thousand Exotic Dancers. Whether it's isk or not is completely irrelevant.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.