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The Marmite Collective Wardeccing... for a good cause ? Really ?

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Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#181 - 2013-11-27 22:08:33 UTC
... Why not just take the plex equivalent of isk from the corp and donate it yourself?
That makes these last 9 pages 100% irrelevant

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Tora Bushido
From Hisec with Love Holdings
From Hisec with Love Coalition
#182 - 2013-11-27 22:21:51 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
... Why not just take the plex equivalent of isk from the corp and donate it yourself?
That makes these last 9 pages 100% irrelevant
This way we get way more people to talk about it, which might make them think...... "I am not in war with Marmite, but I'll donate anyway."


DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#183 - 2013-11-27 22:26:50 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Not much to add here, as most things have been said. Remember this is not a Marmite post. try to forget Marmite for now and do what is right, even if you are a bad-ass in game. We wont tell anyone.... your soft side will be safe with us. The offer to end a war (not being a paid dec) also counts for all other war decs we have (could be a cheap way for you to get out Blink). Consult me first before you donate that plex to good to end a war.

CCP, you better donate for PFG....... we are coming after you..... [insert evil laughter].... Twisted

We have raised billions so far from our own members, which will also be used for PFG. So you see, even war decs can help make a better world. Group hug anyone ? \o/

Keep up the good work BKM !



I set a new alliance goal if we reach 50 billion I am putting on a dress and ribbons in my beard and signing a song then posting it on youtube. Who ever in the alliance donates the most can pick the song ( must be something I can sing).
type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#184 - 2013-11-27 22:29:34 UTC
I honestly doubt that was you're original intention for the scheme.

Maybe you are raising more plex for the cause but I worry about how this will affect CCP in future attempts at plex for good. We are at a very gray area in regards to blurring rl and the game, a charity works from those who want to give and support it. Coercing donations goes against how charities are at up and regardless of monetary medium I feel uneasy forcing people to conform to my thoughts and feeling on a subject regardless of how clear cut and "good" I deem it.

I hope CCP don't take anything negative away from this drive.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2013-11-27 22:40:04 UTC
BKM Industries wrote:
Tora Bushido wrote:
Not much to add here, as most things have been said. Remember this is not a Marmite post. try to forget Marmite for now and do what is right, even if you are a bad-ass in game. We wont tell anyone.... your soft side will be safe with us. The offer to end a war (not being a paid dec) also counts for all other war decs we have (could be a cheap way for you to get out Blink). Consult me first before you donate that plex to good to end a war.

CCP, you better donate for PFG....... we are coming after you..... [insert evil laughter].... Twisted

We have raised billions so far from our own members, which will also be used for PFG. So you see, even war decs can help make a better world. Group hug anyone ? \o/

Keep up the good work BKM !



I set a new alliance goal if we reach 50 billion I am putting on a dress and ribbons in my beard and signing a song then posting it on youtube. Who ever in the alliance donates the most can pick the song ( must be something I can sing).


You're in a dress with ribbons in your beard, does it really matter if you are on key?

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Tora Bushido
From Hisec with Love Holdings
From Hisec with Love Coalition
#186 - 2013-11-27 22:43:36 UTC
BKM Industries wrote:
I set a new alliance goal if we reach 50 billion I am putting on a dress and ribbons in my beard and signing a song then posting it on youtube. Who ever in the alliance donates the most can pick the song ( must be something I can sing).
So tempting :) Twisted

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#187 - 2013-11-27 22:48:14 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
I honestly doubt that was you're original intention for the scheme.

Maybe you are raising more plex for the cause but I worry about how this will affect CCP in future attempts at plex for good. We are at a very gray area in regards to blurring rl and the game, a charity works from those who want to give and support it. Coercing donations goes against how charities are at up and regardless of monetary medium I feel uneasy forcing people to conform to my thoughts and feeling on a subject regardless of how clear cut and "good" I deem it.

I hope CCP don't take anything negative away from this drive.





So let me get this right. We war dec people all the time. We war dec people now durring the P4G and cause they can pay like always except instead of us keeping it the money goes to help people in real life you do not like it? They even get out of a war at a much cheaper then normal price.



Who is being forced to donate? I have not seen one corp or alliance who got the mail post here yet complaining. No one has donated so maybe they sent you the plex and or isk and you are breaking the rules?



The whole point of this was to help people doing what we normally do. I am sure 2 weeks ago no one complained on here when they could pay to get out of a war dec. People could look at it as hey we are helping charity instead of paying a merc corp. That was how we looked at it.


Quote:
"Coercing donations goes against how charities are at up and regardless of monetary medium I feel uneasy forcing people to conform to my thoughts and feeling on a subject regardless of how clear cut and "good" I deem it. "


But people killing each other in a game is ok for charity or are you just 100% against charity and games mixing?
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RAW23
#188 - 2013-11-27 23:05:07 UTC
BKM Industries wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
I honestly doubt that was you're original intention for the scheme.

Maybe you are raising more plex for the cause but I worry about how this will affect CCP in future attempts at plex for good. We are at a very gray area in regards to blurring rl and the game, a charity works from those who want to give and support it. Coercing donations goes against how charities are at up and regardless of monetary medium I feel uneasy forcing people to conform to my thoughts and feeling on a subject regardless of how clear cut and "good" I deem it.

I hope CCP don't take anything negative away from this drive.





So let me get this right. We war dec people all the time. We war dec people now durring the P4G and cause they can pay like always except instead of us keeping it the money goes to help people in real life you do not like it? They even get out of a war at a much cheaper then normal price.



Who is being forced to donate? I have not seen one corp or alliance who got the mail post here yet complaining. No one has donated so maybe they sent you the plex and or isk and you are breaking the rules?



The whole point of this was to help people doing what we normally do. I am sure 2 weeks ago no one complained on here when they could pay to get out of a war dec. People could look at it as hey we are helping charity instead of paying a merc corp. That was how we looked at it.


Quote:
"Coercing donations goes against how charities are at up and regardless of monetary medium I feel uneasy forcing people to conform to my thoughts and feeling on a subject regardless of how clear cut and "good" I deem it. "


But people killing each other in a game is ok for charity or are you just 100% against charity and games mixing?


Personally I think the sentiment is sound and the execution is perfectly in line with the ethos of eve. My main concern is that people who are on the receiving end might start taking a darker view of the PFG drive if they have unpleasant personal moments linked with it. Even if they get a discount there is still an issue of branding, in that charities (and all products) go a long way to try to avoid negative associations in their ad campaigns. It's a tricky one, though, because for a lot of eve players this will be a positive association Big smile

I also think there are broader ethical questions in general about creating a link between ingame morality and the out of game reality but that's kind of an academic issue that I'm not entirely sure where I stand on. At the end of the day, if CCP are ok with it and they apply the ruling universally then money is money. I don't discount the possibility of a negative effect but any potential theoretical harm will be pretty marginal in any case.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2013-11-27 23:11:29 UTC
I'm not really fond of giant posts, so I'll just respond here.

I have no problem with paying out of wars. I have a problem with you making them do something which pertains to an individual's beliefs in relation to the world, things going on there and what YOU deem "right/correct /good"

Playing the game should not leave the game imo. Plex for good is a nice idea but if I owned or ran a game I don't think I would run a scheme similar.

Yes I am against mixing a video game and the real world.

Also you have managed to get a Dev response that has set a precedent over this situation.

This may be somewhat related to the fact that they do not allow scams regarding plex for good, and rightly so. However this holds a bearing towards the game mechanics in the sense your wars are "insured" by CCP to any outcome you wish.

I always felt CCP like their hands off approach to this game and things that happen, but here they are forced to act and take away from that philosophy.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2013-11-27 23:15:12 UTC
It might be for a good cause this time around, but what if one day someone decides to use the same extortion method to donate to the less than savory groups out there. This obviously would have set a precedent which CCP would then have to back out of.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#191 - 2013-11-27 23:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
The ops point is that the real world/game world divide has been crossed and that when you log in to eve you want to leave behind the mundane world that we all share. I have some sympathy for this point of view. Plus I wouldn't trust the marmites to honestly donate the plexes to the same degree as a properly managed CCP plex drive. Nothing against the marmite collective but there's obviously less trust of in game entities than CCP fundraising for charity because new eden does not breed trusting relationships.

Personally I think we should all leave the real world behind at the log in screen but at that same log in screen theres nothing wrong with a donate button, perhaps ccp can encourage donations by giving everyone a sisters of eve arm band or some other vanity item that they can wear about their avatar provided of course that it can't be sold in game.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Tora Bushido
From Hisec with Love Holdings
From Hisec with Love Coalition
#192 - 2013-11-27 23:22:22 UTC
We shot an obelisk tonight, who had a plex inside his cargo. Sorry for your loss mate, but your plex will be donated too Blink

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#193 - 2013-11-27 23:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: BKM Industries
RAW23 if people start thinking that helping a charity is bad cause of what we did then I am sure they already think this video game is bad cause of what we do. All the war decs are ones we have done before if I am not mistaken. I also do not hear any of the CEO's complaining about it.


I also belive Red Frog Freight thought it was a cool thing. They still did not pay up but meh I know they donated before durring teh Japan Plex for Good to a lotto that was help by Tyra Holden. If CCP starts to say you can only use xx or yy game mechanics in game to get isk or plex for the plex for good then they are changing the whole game around durring the charity drives.



http://www.extra-life.org/ 4 million bucks raised for kids. How by people playing games killing people, building stuff, shooting stuff doing what ever it is they do to have fun. Do you think if I was playing CS durring that event people I killed would complain to the admins of the CS server that I killed them in teh name of charity in a video game when the whole point of the video game is to do that?



The point of this video game is play and have fun. If people do not like the normal rules they should not play. No extra rules were made saying you can only let people out of a war dec durring PLEX for Good. Lets see this for what it is. CCP is trying to help people in need. People in game are doing the same. Some may mine ore some may trade stuff otehrs may move stuff some may swoop in under concords nose and blow **** up. We are doing what we do everyday and some people do not like it. They can quit the game it is and has been part of the game from day 1. I doubt CCP will ever halt high sec wars and or tell people they can not pay to get out of a war.

Jill Chastot how are our wars "insured"? Please enlighten me. Cause I spent isk for war decs that gave no isk to charity and you are still complaining about it. You are on here mixing your real life views with this video game. I thought you said you are agianst mixing RL and this game.
type something here to make a cool sig!!!
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#194 - 2013-11-27 23:25:59 UTC
But there is a new rule.
Of you say you are going to donate you now Have to donate.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#195 - 2013-11-27 23:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Chastot
What I am saying is that you should not mix the game aspects of surrender and wars with the Plex for good drive. They should stay separate and you appropriating the name for use in your wars is somewhat distasteful.

Also forums and games are separate. The game is where you play the forums are where you converse and discuss ideas and rl is where you go after. Please do not make me out to say something I am not.

Their wars are insured as any option as to gaming you on relation to your new demands will be considered a scam. That's the new rule I was talking about.

CCP has now more or less endorsed your activity (which I have no problem with)
CCP have created a rule to safeguard their drive and your demands inadvertently (this is the bad part)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#196 - 2013-11-27 23:31:09 UTC  |  Edited by: BKM Industries
Jill Chastot wrote:
But there is a new rule.
Of you say you are going to donate you now Have to donate.



This is an old rule. Every single plex for good has had the same rules.

A war dec would not stop till we got what we asked for that has always been the way with us.

So what changed?

EDIT: plex for good has always been a punishment for people who tryed to scam so anyone saying tehy would donate and did not would be punished. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/plex-for-good-philippines-typhoon-relief/?utm_source=Launcher&utm_medium=Banner&utm_content=PLEX+For+Good+Philippines&utm_campaign=PLEX+For+Good+Philippines

read the last part:

Quote:
Please note that CCP regards any scamming attempts surrounding PLEX for GOOD to be morally reprehensible, and any attempts at scamming relating to this program will be met with the harshest and swiftest action at our disposal.


CCP did not just add this. It was in the last one too it is not new.
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Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#197 - 2013-11-27 23:37:04 UTC
That rule is moot, the drive isn't being scammed. Your alliance is. And now you have protection from CCP. Does that make sense?
(inb4 someone thinks this post is a person attack)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
BKM Industries
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#198 - 2013-11-27 23:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: BKM Industries
Jill Chastot wrote:
That rule is moot, the drive isn't being scammed. Your alliance is. And now you have protection from CCP. Does that make sense?
(inb4 someone thinks this post is a person attack)


How is my alliance being scammed?

I will tell you what for you if you wanna donate 10 plex to the plex for good you can post a SS of the finished contract or send them to me to get to CCP and in return I will not offer to not war dec any more alliance or corps in exchange for plex durring this plex drive.

We are outside of teh game so it is ok to talk about RL stuff now right?


EDIT: I am half trolling you and half trying to understand sorry bad habbit on both lol.
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Laetitia Nzero
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#199 - 2013-11-27 23:41:40 UTC
So OP doesn't want to hear about CCP PLEX for GOOD or charity work when logs in, got it.
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#200 - 2013-11-27 23:59:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Chastot
What I think is because you are using the name of the drive it implies a certain level of collaboration, and with the rule being scams regarding plex for good are bad the rule can then be applied to you.

You want the say 10 plex donated and SS. That is your alliances motive say, and there is no conceivable way for me to play within the rules given CCPsfirm(and correct) stance. So they are offering you a degree of security not offered elsewhere or to anyone else, purely because you are saying those magic words. In turn you cannot reneg on your side of the deal in kind. But regardless your mission has carried out with inadvertent assistance from ccps rules.

Example : if I sell someone stuck in a Wormhole a bookmark to get out and the warp off without paying that's a perfectly okay thing to do, however if to avoid your wardec u do the same thing here it is considered a scam and action can be taken.

Did that sorta help you understand where I'm coming from?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."