Player Features and Ideas Discussion

ccp would need to work out the magic recipe for t3 cruisers first. Cruisers have been balanced as well and t3 still is favored.

The problem t3 has shown thus far is there is no cut and dry nerd/buff combo way to control them. Not all t3 cruiser setups are problems. My often used example is the cry of nerd tengu. Okay....which one? HML tengu has issues granted But not hybrid tengu. Which makes obvious changes to t3 hard. CCP can't nerf the grid that makes 100mn HAM/HML tengu possible not making hybrid tengu even less desirable to run than it is now.

Basically until ccp can figure out this logical trap out you won't see t3 frigates as on day 2 of release 10mn t3 frigates would blot out the sky. It was 10mn frigates in abundance that got them killed as a rebalance idea for AF's missing bonus (at the time) back on sisi for dominion testing (think it was dominion, or expansion after).

+1 but also when rebalancing T3 Cruisers get rid of the skill loss.

You'll probably die frequently enough in a T3 frigate that training the subsystems past IV would be pointless and you have to take another ~ 20 hours out of your skill queue to replace the lost skill when dying before you could fly another one.

Keep your hands off my aviators, you unclean heathen.

Yeah t3's will have to be looked at before CCP implement a new frigate but for the most part, t3 cruisers are already pretty well balanced. Some subsystems need a tiny nerf but others need a big buff.

My main purpose for wanting a t3 frig is to fill the logistic frigate role as the t1 versions are simply unfit for purpose.

It be more like the tears of other people as tengu pilots hop into these in droves. One of the main selling points of 100mn tengu is its speed does not throw off its tracking and has a weapon system less range dependent vice guns if missile fit (ie. if you blow your orbit you don't go into damage bleed off from extreme falloff). A mini tengu (what I'll call it) would fall in along the same lines. And it be even faster and smaller sig radius than tengu for icing in the cake.

The price break of this over tengu is another +1.


Why I had the bit about rebalance t3 needs to happen first. CCP already has op t3 setups they can't easily fix without breaking the crap ones no on uses (as grid changes would make hem even larger piles of crap). If ccp can't keep 100mn tengu in check, they aren't going to make mini-tengu's that are even faster and even smaller in sig radius.

Now you've done it

Really? They outclass T2s?
ECM Tengu vs Falcon. Falcon has greater jam strength
Web Loki vs Rapier. Rapier has almost double web range
Lachesis/Arazu vs Proteus. Prot doesn't have nearly enough speed OR range to fulfill the Arazu's role
Neut legion vs Curse. Do I even need to prove this one? When you get a Legion that neuts past 70km let me know...

T3s are on par with or weaker than Command ships for DPS, only the Legion/Proteus could use a tank nerf (10% to 5% on buffer sub).

So tell me again how T3s are lolop?
75% of subs are completely useless anyway.

T3 frigates could be interesting, but the SP loss would make them hanger trophies.

T3s are flown in fleets due to the ability to apply damage and due to improved tanks.

Recons sacrifice for EWar, T3s sacrifice EWar for better tanks/DPS. The Swiss army knife was the intended idea, and that's the role they fulfill. They aren't better than T2s in the specialized T2 role, therefore they aren't outside of the intended purpose.

The increased DPS/Tank makes them more viable in WH PVP, and the armor tanked cruiser with artillery that is a 0.0 Loki fleet doesn't have a T1/T2 comparison. The 0.0 Tengu fleet is strange, stupid, and unique, but that's because the Tengu has always been a balance menace and they aren't popular anymore, and with good reason. HML nerf. Russians seem to have missed that.

I don't see how T3s are too strong, they aren't superior at the T2 ships because T2 ships are specialized, and T3s are better than T2s in ways that T2s aren't specialized in.

Tank? Maybe. I'd be fine with a 5% reduction in Proteus/Legion buffer sub. But that's all I can think of.

It's not the fact that you can point out an individual role and say a T2 is better that makes the T3 strong.

It's that the T3 can fulfill a hilariously large amount of roles, and recently gained the ability to swap roles undocked with a mobile depot that only has a 60s anchor time.

People who don't think that's a massive increase in power are likely naive to a childlike degree.

You can't ECM if you are busy flying to base to get your Falcon.

It's cute that people think it's relevant to debate balance on paper without consideration of actual fleet logistics, but it doesn't really mean much.

There are reasons why ever since T3's were released, most people, even new players, made an initial grab for them. They are nearly mandatory to have on your account.

Sure, they might not be the best at individual roles, but when has that ever mattered? The most important thing is fulfilling a role. Doing it perfectly is nearly impossible even with a ship that's designed for it -- got a few billion ISK for a full set of Slave (or whatever) implants? EVERY single relevant skill to V?...etc

To kill a depot before it anchors (and has a RF timer) you only need 300 DPS (292 if you want to be technical), so they aren't supremely useful in combat.

T3s are hardly manditory, most small to medium gang PVP T1 ships, with some T2s mixed in, are prefered over T3s due to their cost, SP loss, and the fact that people want to tackle them and primary them. If newbies make a grab for them it's because they like the idea of versatility, or a cloaky DPS boat (like I did).

They are hardly OP or else they would be primary ships everyone flies, but right now everyone's favorites are AFs, Inties, Cruisers, and HACs, with a few other random ships mixed in.

Why would you attempt to refit in the middle of combat? This is an insane argument.

Unless you literally had nothing to lose (going to die anyway) it would be stupid to even try.

I have no idea where you got the idea that I was suggesting that you attempt to refit while in combat.

I mean -- What?