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The Marmite Collective Wardeccing... for a good cause ? Really ?

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Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#81 - 2013-11-27 13:20:05 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
You know what?

I didn't donate a thing.
I won't donate a single ISK.

The amount of bull regarding this is ridiculous!
I bet most people don't actually donate a single cent of their own money,
while at the same time keep telling themselves what kind of good people they are!

I hope CCP can reduce their taxes with this,
because all you who don't pay a single cent of real money,
are donating somebody elses money!

And you feel good about it too!

WOAH you are such good people!
Really! OMG I BOW BEFORE YOU!

*********** !


Now that is the way it really is and +1 for saying it.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2013-11-27 13:20:50 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:

You also have missed the point in that there is no extortion going on here only options in surrendering to a wardec as I read it.
Option 1, pay a surrender fee. which is part of the mechanic
Option 2, pay a plex which will be donated to the relief fund and is also only done because of the blackmailing. Which is a way of helping people caught up in a very bad disater.





FTFY


"If people feel that it is extortion then make a personal donation outside the options given even if you are wardecced or not."

That is exactly my point, thank you for underlining it again.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
RAW23
#83 - 2013-11-27 13:23:22 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Besides the fact that you're a coward posting with an npc alt...
...CCP said they're not happy with people doing this.


I can't put my finger on who said it... hm...


It was mentioned in a couple of other threads on the topic but I forget by who. One of the pirates posting in support of PFG floated the idea of extorting donations as ransoms but then later posted to say that they had been told not to do this by CCP and to just take isk and donate it themselves. If memory serves another pirate then reported the same response in another of the threads.


You also have missed the point in that there is no extortion going on here only options in surrendering to a wardec as I read it.
Option 1, pay a surrender fee. which is part of the mechanic
Option 2, pay a plex which will be donated to the relief fund. Which is a way of helping people caught up in a very bad disater.

If people feel that it is extortion then make a personal donation outside the options given even if you are wardecced or not.




It's not that extortion in game is a bad thing (it's not) but both option 1 and 2 are clearly instances of extortion. You pay a fee to avoid the threat of force being used against you. That is just what extortion is.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#84 - 2013-11-27 13:24:33 UTC
Obmud wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:
Obmud wrote:
Danalee wrote:
I apologize, when coming down to your level I felt less secure and therefor reacted with childish remarks to your well thought out statements.

D.

Bear


Apology accepted.


Methinks you missed the very apparent point in his original comment!
I also would like to ask the OP how much you have personally donated to the relief fund?


1. It's none of your business, i stated already that i belief in not bloating about it wether you give something or not. it's everybody's personal business.


So what is your real purpose here as it certainly is not just about Marmites raising isk for a worthy relief fund, I believe you have alterior motives in bringing this.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-11-27 13:26:12 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:
Obmud wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:
Obmud wrote:
Danalee wrote:
I apologize, when coming down to your level I felt less secure and therefor reacted with childish remarks to your well thought out statements.

D.

Bear


Apology accepted.


Methinks you missed the very apparent point in his original comment!
I also would like to ask the OP how much you have personally donated to the relief fund?


1. It's none of your business, i stated already that i belief in not bloating about it wether you give something or not. it's everybody's personal business.


So what is your real purpose here as it certainly is not just about Marmites raising isk for a worthy relief fund, I believe you have alterior motives in bringing this.


Yeah i believe the illuminati are behind this and are turning us all into reptiles! -.-

I said it twenty times already but i repeat it for you... i don't want it in my face and i don't want to be forced, i think it's not right to mix rl activities with eve online when you force it on people. My point is not THAT hard to understand.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#86 - 2013-11-27 13:26:19 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Besides the fact that you're a coward posting with an npc alt...
...CCP said they're not happy with people doing this.


I can't put my finger on who said it... hm...


It was mentioned in a couple of other threads on the topic but I forget by who. One of the pirates posting in support of PFG floated the idea of extorting donations as ransoms but then later posted to say that they had been told not to do this by CCP and to just take isk and donate it themselves. If memory serves another pirate then reported the same response in another of the threads.


You also have missed the point in that there is no extortion going on here only options in surrendering to a wardec as I read it.
Option 1, pay a surrender fee. which is part of the mechanic
Option 2, pay a plex which will be donated to the relief fund. Which is a way of helping people caught up in a very bad disater.

If people feel that it is extortion then make a personal donation outside the options given even if you are wardecced or not.




It's not that extortion in game is a bad thing (it's not) but both option 1 and 2 are clearly instances of extortion. You pay a fee to avoid the threat of force being used against you. That is just what extortion is.


Then petition CCP to remove the option in the surrender mechanic of paying a fee to surrender as it is they who introduced it.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#87 - 2013-11-27 13:27:46 UTC
Obmud wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.


Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence. It has nothing to do with a game mechanic, that is EXACTLY my point and it nowhere justifies everything you do just because ccp tolerates the double isk scammers in jita. I have problems understanding your logic to be honest.



You can buy PLEX with in game currency....If someone chooses to do it with Real world money thats their choice. Therefore Valid game mechanic.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2013-11-27 13:28:48 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
Obmud wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.


Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence. It has nothing to do with a game mechanic, that is EXACTLY my point and it nowhere justifies everything you do just because ccp tolerates the double isk scammers in jita. I have problems understanding your logic to be honest.



You can buy PLEX with in game currency....If someone chooses to do it with Real world money thats their choice. Therefore Valid game mechanic.


What exactly did you miss when going from "it's their choice" to being forced into making the choice ?

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
RAW23
#89 - 2013-11-27 13:29:58 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Besides the fact that you're a coward posting with an npc alt...
...CCP said they're not happy with people doing this.


I can't put my finger on who said it... hm...


It was mentioned in a couple of other threads on the topic but I forget by who. One of the pirates posting in support of PFG floated the idea of extorting donations as ransoms but then later posted to say that they had been told not to do this by CCP and to just take isk and donate it themselves. If memory serves another pirate then reported the same response in another of the threads.


You also have missed the point in that there is no extortion going on here only options in surrendering to a wardec as I read it.
Option 1, pay a surrender fee. which is part of the mechanic
Option 2, pay a plex which will be donated to the relief fund. Which is a way of helping people caught up in a very bad disater.

If people feel that it is extortion then make a personal donation outside the options given even if you are wardecced or not.




It's not that extortion in game is a bad thing (it's not) but both option 1 and 2 are clearly instances of extortion. You pay a fee to avoid the threat of force being used against you. That is just what extortion is.


Then petition CCP to remove the option in the surrender mechanic of paying a fee to surrender as it is they who introduced it.


Wut? I have said repeatedly there is nothing wrong with this. Perhaps some close reading would help you. Extortion is an important part of EvE and is a great driver of conflicts and interactions. Why would I petition CCP to remove it from the game? Extortion in-game is a GOOD thing and one of the things that makes EvE uniquely fun.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-11-27 13:31:12 UTC
I've been watching this thread today, and thinking hard about it. I wanted to agree with OP because it's Marmite we're talking about here, one of the most risk-averse groups in EVE Online (don't deny it, you're out there for the kills and if the risk is just a little too high for your comfort zone, you simply won't take it. Nothing wrong with risk aversion, but it does make you carebears, and I just don't like carebears.)

Altruism is a tricky concept, because at its core, it's based on selfishness. Doing something for others is still the result of what one can get out of it. In this case, it may be a personal feeling of doing good, or it may be for the bragging rights one might use to raise themselves above their peers.

Perhaps, in this case, it's Marmite's approach to how they accomplish this task that has created this issue over "can we force people to donate?" because the people who feel like they are being forced may feel like they are being robbed of the warm fuzzies they would get if they had donated of their own free will. I would ask instead, if I'm being objective, "can you force people to pay ransom?" If Marmite had taken a different approach, there would be no 'scandal' so to speak, but they would get the same result. Wardeccing all the same corps/alliances with a message saying "x PLEX or the cost of x PLEX will get you out of this," without even saying what it's for (in order to avoid being accused of scamming) would have just been Marmite doing what Marmite do, and then they could have donated the proceeds to the PLEX for Good campaign. Even if they did say what it's for, as long as the proceeds ARE donated, there is no scam, and no scandal. Proper records, of course, would need to be kept and provided on request, because I'm sure that CCP would crack down hard on any scamming attempts, as it says in the dev blog regarding the campaign.

That being said... no one is forcing anyone to do anything, because you have the choice not to pay them, just as they have the choice to wardec all these corps and alliances, which at the end of the day, is probably costing them isk. There is no scam, Marmite are just doing what Marmite do, so regardless of their motivations, CCP can't and won't stop them.

I live in low sec, anyway, with a freighter alt for running trade hub pipes, so they don't bother me none at all.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-11-27 13:31:25 UTC
Danalee wrote:
OP,

Did you receive the mail yourself? (NO!)
Did you receive the mails that were sent beforehand? (NO)

What are you complaining about than?
If the original receiver of said mail would speak up with his/her main we'd have a basis for a discussion.
I take it he/she won't however, since we talked about it before and after the sending of said mail.

Sorry I can't say many concrete things because THAT would be embarassing for some.

translation: OP is right but as he is in NPC corp (thus cannot be one of receivers of such mails) we will decline whatever he said.

good and well working strategy of dealing with public! CCP knows how well things like this end Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#92 - 2013-11-27 13:34:53 UTC
Obmud wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:

You also have missed the point in that there is no extortion going on here only options in surrendering to a wardec as I read it.
Option 1, pay a surrender fee. which is part of the mechanic
Option 2, pay a plex which will be donated to the relief fund and is also only done because of the blackmailing. Which is a way of helping people caught up in a very bad disater.





FTFY


"If people feel that it is extortion then make a personal donation outside the options given even if you are wardecced or not."

That is exactly my point, thank you for underlining it again.


That is the way it has allways been but you needed to try and go on a moral crusade over something you are not even going to help with.
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#93 - 2013-11-27 13:40:48 UTC
Obmud wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Obmud wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.


Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence. It has nothing to do with a game mechanic, that is EXACTLY my point and it nowhere justifies everything you do just because ccp tolerates the double isk scammers in jita. I have problems understanding your logic to be honest.



You can buy PLEX with in game currency....If someone chooses to do it with Real world money thats their choice. Therefore Valid game mechanic.


What exactly did you miss when going from "it's their choice" to being forced into making the choice ?


I fail to see where you come into this being forced scenario!
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2013-11-27 13:46:33 UTC
They decked my corp as well. They are scared of null and like to annoy people in Jita. They are not to be taken seriously.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-11-27 14:01:13 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Caladin Brood wrote:
Here a Story

There this wee boy goes to school everyday, everyday he gets bullied and beat up, he plays eve to find his fun and forget about it, the bullies(who also play eve) find out and start using that to BM an extort him in game

eve communities reaction = legit use of game mechanic


0/10. RL Bullies play codblops not spreadsheets in space.


While Im not a fan of CoD myself, thats as stupid an assumption as saying *blowing up spaceships makes you a sociapath RL.*

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-11-27 14:04:45 UTC
Obmud wrote:

(no, i didnt get wardecced, this is my main and he's in an npc corp, no i'm not butthurt, no eve is not dieing, no it's not my brother who used this account)


HTFU, then.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2013-11-27 14:10:11 UTC
What would be the difference if they just wardecced you without the message? This sentence alone should end this mofoing thread of stupidity. I hope Marmite or whoever they are keep the plex that idiots give to them instead of fighting.. Pussies, a lot of you!
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2013-11-27 14:11:35 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
What would be the difference if they just wardecced you without the message? This sentence alone should end this mofoing thread of stupidity. I hope Marmite or whoever they are keep the plex that idiots give to them instead of fighting.. Pussies, a lot of you!


Big smile Ah, so words dont matter anymore Big smile RIght Big smile

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
Rekon X
Doomheim
#99 - 2013-11-27 14:15:44 UTC
Probably come out better to use the isk to buy their own plex instead of spending it on wardecs.

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew
RAW23
#100 - 2013-11-27 14:17:33 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
What would be the difference if they just wardecced you without the message? This sentence alone should end this mofoing thread of stupidity. I hope Marmite or whoever they are keep the plex that idiots give to them instead of fighting.. Pussies, a lot of you!


You ... you hope they use a real life disaster to scam PLEXes out of people and then use them for their own benefit, depriving people in real life need of the help that the PLEXes should be providing? Are you ill or just stupid?

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.