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[Rubicon] Warp Speed and Acceleration

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Shaun Hansen
Tactically Challenged
The Initiative.
#641 - 2013-11-24 12:07:44 UTC
I have only one thing:

GET RID OF THOSE ENGINE/MOTORCYCLE SOUNDS.

EVE is a space-game NOT a racing game.

End.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#642 - 2013-11-24 13:32:03 UTC
sabastyian wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
This is undesirable.

I'm actually in complete agreement. I think especially with the Ascendancy implants the differences are now too extreme (and it's at best at token benefit for battleships, so entirely not worth it).

I have no intention of dropping my slave clone for the new implants, or a crystal clone or my snake clone or even my +5'/6% clone....... the warp speed is a huge gimp for battleships, but alot of players ( my self included ) aren't going to give up 40% or so extra tank or speed.....



Even then the best you can do it HG ascends with a WS-618 (lol) instead of the Omega and that gets you to a whopping 2.2AU warp speed......whoopdie, definitely not worth a 3 billion isk clone That being said intercepters are just giggle worth, a corpmate made it from Jita to 6VDT in 9 minutes in one that is something like 28 manual jumps to get to the first jump bridge and then 4-5 from Cloud Ring to destination.

Just goofy, you can catch a battleship fleet that is 5 jumps ahead of you in to start with in before they make it 3 jumps, you are screwed when you get there, but you can catch them easily. Assault frigs, through BCs feel pretty good but the edges are either to fast or to slow.

....as much as I enjoy abusing the new interceptors.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#643 - 2013-11-24 13:33:54 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Cracked it.

I have a mega hull which will warp as fast as an assault ship.


Hope there's a carrier at the other end of the warp so you can refit for combat...


I wouldn't fly it if it couldn't fightBlink
Zoe Allende
Gardes Feydakin
#644 - 2013-11-27 12:23:27 UTC
Let's bump this topic to the top.

I will try to sum up what some people and I complain about here: the changes to lighter ships warp times are good. It is now very fun and pleasant to warp around in frigates. However changes to heavier ships warp times introduced simultaneously are a problem.

Precisely, I think we need to differentiate between two facts here:

  • difference between ship classes regarding the total amounts of time spent in warp: this is about ok to me as it is on the server now, although it could be much lesser without hurting the game balance IMHO, but there has to be some room kept for the new implants I guess;
  • difference between ship classes regarding the amounts of time spent on or near the source and destination grids while you're still in warp: this is really a major showstopper right now, especially the hideous deceleration time which:
    • - is by itself an abundent source of boredom and frustration;
    - makes battleships often useless to any gang but big blobs with tanky HICs ahead, as they'll most often be able to lock things again as the party ends;
    - along with the recent changes to probing introduced by Odyssey, makes probing out your grid before you can even regain control of your ship a walk in the park for your opponent.

I think I understand what the developers tried to do here: lighter ships should land on grid before heavy ones, sure. Nevertheless the time-spent-accelerating to the total-time-spent-in-warp ratio should not be constant (i.e. the heavier the ship, the lesser it should be), because it has to relate to absolute game factors which have not been or cannot be changed: agility and align time, sub-warp speed, average human reaction time, typical grid size and so on...
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#645 - 2013-11-28 13:26:06 UTC
Zoe Allende wrote:
Let's bump this topic to the top.

I will try to sum up what some people and I complain about here: the changes to lighter ships warp times are good. It is now very fun and pleasant to warp around in frigates. However changes to heavier ships warp times introduced simultaneously are a problem.

Precisely, I think we need to differentiate between two facts here:

  • difference between ship classes regarding the total amounts of time spent in warp: this is about ok to me as it is on the server now, although it could be much lesser without hurting the game balance IMHO, but there has to be some room kept for the new implants I guess;
  • difference between ship classes regarding the amounts of time spent on or near the source and destination grids while you're still in warp: this is really a major showstopper right now, especially the hideous deceleration time which:
    • - is by itself an abundent source of boredom and frustration;
    - makes battleships often useless to any gang but big blobs with tanky HICs ahead, as they'll most often be able to lock things again as the party ends;
    - along with the recent changes to probing introduced by Odyssey, makes probing out your grid before you can even regain control of your ship a walk in the park for your opponent.

I think I understand what the developers tried to do here: lighter ships should land on grid before heavy ones, sure. Nevertheless the time-spent-accelerating to the total-time-spent-in-warp ratio should not be constant (i.e. the heavier the ship, the lesser it should be), because it has to relate to absolute game factors which have not been or cannot be changed: agility and align time, sub-warp speed, average human reaction time, typical grid size and so on...


Well put. Keep bumping it. It needs to change.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Centis Adjani
Adjani Corporation
#646 - 2013-12-03 11:58:17 UTC
CCP, this slow down of warp speeds, especially for BS is b*llsh*t.

If I run lvl 4 missions, now I have to spend more lifetime in warp tunnel than in fighting.
Even more if the missions happen in neighbour Systems, what happens mostly.
If I do Level 4 Epic Arc missions, the time spent for warping quadruples in comparism to the fighting.

I've read a lot of the postings in this topic with the pros and cons to this change.
But no pro opinion could convince me. I am not interested in pysics, this is a game!
So I give a damn about it, how ships in water and spaceships should accelerate and speed in space or water.

This is a game. It should give me FUN, not BOREDOM.
And the result of decreasing the warp speeds is an increase in boredom.

CCP, please keep always in mind that a game should give fun! And there is NO fun in watching the warp tunnel.
Especially for half an hour if you need to travel 10 jumps to the next Mission Goal in Epic Arcs.

CCP, please reverse this warp speed change in Rubicon, reduce the boredom and bring more fun back into the game!
AKA Mordiki
Perkone
Caldari State
#647 - 2013-12-03 14:29:39 UTC
OMG I thought my freightor was slow before the change. Please ... PLEASE speed up freightors
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#648 - 2013-12-04 09:58:53 UTC
BUMP:

confirming that since the loss of my last battleship in small-gang pvp (an occupational risk) I have not bought any more since BS warp acceleration rules out this kind of ship for solo/2-man pvp.

I've been using HACs only since then. A BS would simply be unable to catch anything - even another battleship. The target can see it coming on D-scan for a very long time, giving him plenty of time to lumber into warp.

In any case, the HACs now have better survivability and versatility than battleships for less money.

Putting battleship warp speed back to 3 and reducing the inertia effect a tad would solve this and make them useful again.

Frigate warp speeds are of course a joy. if you have an interceptor and you're alert, there is no escape for your hapless cruiser-or-bigger victim.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Zeva Vyllshan
Serpent's Maw Solutions
#649 - 2013-12-23 08:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeva Vyllshan
I just want to add my +1 on freighters being unnecessarily nerfed.

As the other... 50+? posts to this effect said, the changes all look great -- except freighters, and perhaps battleships. Moreso freighters because they easily make 100+ jumps in a day for a professional hauler.

These are already extreeeeeeemely slow beasts of burdens (as they should be) that are extreeeeeeeeemely boring to fly at the keyboard. There is absolutely no sane reason, whatsoever, to further nerf their warp speed. They were perfectly balanced before. As wise men/women say in my country -- if it ain't broken, don't try to fix it.

As it stands, I will now spend more time playing another game on one monitor while my freighter runs on the other. And I absolutely, wholeheartedly guarantee you this is a near-universal expression of your professional freighter players' feelings. Go ahead and do a survey. See how many feel this change isn't a slap in the face.

I know this will probably be ignored. I know the CCP rep already basically said to stuff it about the freighters many pages back. But I figure I can be one more voice amongst the dozens of others here complaining about freighters. Back to Netflix and semi-AFK hauling...

Welcome to Rubicon!  Freighters were too fast, so we slowed them down for you. CCP Fozzie: "But it's not back breaking"

Nerf Freighters more! Put an end to dangerous freighter races today!
Centis Adjani
Adjani Corporation
#650 - 2013-12-27 20:45:33 UTC
Zeva Vyllshan wrote:
I just want to add my +1 on freighters being unnecessarily nerfed.

As the other... 50+? posts to this effect said, the changes all look great -- except freighters, and perhaps battleships. Moreso freighters because they easily make 100+ jumps in a day for a professional hauler.

These are already extreeeeeeemely slow beasts of burdens (as they should be) that are extreeeeeeeeemely boring to fly at the keyboard. There is absolutely no sane reason, whatsoever, to further nerf their warp speed. They were perfectly balanced before. As wise men/women say in my country -- if it ain't broken, don't try to fix it.

As it stands, I will now spend more time playing another game on one monitor while my freighter runs on the other. And I absolutely, wholeheartedly guarantee you this is a near-universal expression of your professional freighter players' feelings. Go ahead and do a survey. See how many feel this change isn't a slap in the face.

I know this will probably be ignored. I know the CCP rep already basically said to stuff it about the freighters many pages back. But I figure I can be one more voice amongst the dozens of others here complaining about freighters. Back to Netflix and semi-AFK hauling...

Freighter pilots are lucky guys. Because they can work on a change to better the warp speed of their ships easiest.
Just don't haul anymore. I guess, CCP would increase freighter warp speed immediate, if all hauling corps like Red Frog aso. stopped their work until the change happen. So, just don't haul anymore - do other things instead. The voice of the community, which don't get hauled their stuff anymore may be loud.
Gwenn Dove
Mostly Harmless 42
#651 - 2014-01-20 22:52:25 UTC
Docking my Domi fleet till further notice - running Epic Arcs is incredibly irritating now.
Take Wildfire - Surfacing for example. Flying 11 jumps there to destroy few rats and to fly 11 jumps back. 5 minutes of combat, 30 minutes of watching warp tunnel movie.
I get it, CCP pushing us carebears to move forward to PvP .. oh wait, I heard that BS is even more useless in PvP now! Bear
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#652 - 2014-01-21 00:49:04 UTC
I did some benchmarking running missions from the apanake SoE hub. Results are here

Running level 4 missions in a domi + eos, killing every rat - so no blitzing.

In summary:

For missions in the same system: 10% of mission time is warping
For missions 1 jump away: 30% of mission time is warping (!)
For missions 2 jumps away: 50% of mission time is spent in warp!

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#653 - 2014-01-21 10:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Falkor1984
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I did some benchmarking running missions from the apanake SoE hub. Results are here

Running level 4 missions in a domi + eos, killing every rat - so no blitzing.

In summary:

For missions in the same system: 10% of mission time is warping
For missions 1 jump away: 30% of mission time is warping (!)
For missions 2 jumps away: 50% of mission time is spent in warp!


Yeah everyone knows that but CCP. But hey they found something to make ceptors overpowered to please the noobs and they found something to make the less interesting part of the game (warping) longer for the older players. /me shakes his head in disbelief.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#654 - 2014-01-23 09:01:24 UTC
Falkor1984 wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I did some benchmarking running missions from the apanake SoE hub. Results are here

Running level 4 missions in a domi + eos, killing every rat - so no blitzing.

In summary:

For missions in the same system: 10% of mission time is warping
For missions 1 jump away: 30% of mission time is warping (!)
For missions 2 jumps away: 50% of mission time is spent in warp!


Yeah everyone knows that but CCP. But hey they found something to make ceptors overpowered to please the noobs and they found something to make the less interesting part of the game (warping) longer for the older players. /me shakes his head in disbelief.


Well, I think we all welcome the faster frigate warp speed and acceleration, including older players such as I. Interceptors now have a few roles as a result, and trawling across space in one to find something interesting to do is now less painful.

What I fail to understand is the decrease in battleship warp speed and acceleration. It was already long before.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#655 - 2014-01-23 10:50:05 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=294540&find=unread

Simply remove acceleration and most Problems would be solved.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Centis Adjani
Adjani Corporation
#656 - 2014-01-23 13:27:29 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Well, I think we all welcome the faster frigate warp speed and acceleration, including older players such as I. Interceptors now have a few roles as a result, and trawling across space in one to find something interesting to do is now less painful.
Yes. That was really OK by CCP.


Mournful Conciousness wrote:
What I fail to understand is the decrease in battleship warp speed and acceleration.
There are a lot of reasons for the WarpSpeed nerf of BS - here are only some of the most important:
- CCP love to annoy their customers (may be they are sadists). You can see this at many things. WS nerf is only one of these
- The coders don't play the game. And if, they use overpowered Interceptors with weapons and tank like a BS
- Nobody from CCP tried out a BattleShip with the NEW Warpspeed for longer than 2 Minutes.
Just warped from Station to Gate for testing and said: "Oh nice, it warps. Anything OK."
- The sense for things which make FUN in playing a game got completely lost by CCP.
- Most CCP employees moved over the age of 40 now. Up from this age, you think: "The slower things happen, the better."
- Graphics DEVs said: "To create such a nice warp tunnel took a lot of effort, so ppl should stare at this for hours."
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#657 - 2014-01-23 14:44:26 UTC
Centis Adjani wrote:

- Most CCP employees moved over the age of 40 now. Up from this age, you think: "The slower things happen, the better."


I just want to say at this point that I am over 40, and I like things to happen quickly too. It's just that I have learned to accept that the world does not move as fast as I would like it too. I think they call this "patience" or "maturity" or "wisdom" or something... but really it's just accepting that everyone sucks. Smile

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#658 - 2014-01-23 16:28:29 UTC
That's an interesting assessment of how the new warp speed mechanics have impacted battleships with respect to mission running. Unlike the other sub classes, they're penalized twice: First for the abysmal acceleration and deceleration and then again for the overall slow warp speed. Hyperspacial rigs appear to change both warp speed and acceleration/deceleration, however. So with the Ascendancy implants speed is actually halfway decent (albeit expensive).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Centis Adjani
Adjani Corporation
#659 - 2014-01-23 16:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Centis Adjani
I have far better use of RIG slots and Implant slots as to waste them for Warp Speed.
There is NO, absolutely NO, senseful reason why Battleships and Battlecruisers should not warp with 3.0/3.5 AU than before.
Or even faster - we are in year 2014 and not in year 2004...

The reduction of the speed cost a lot of additional realtime for the same task than some months before.
And mainly it cost a lot of game fun. It is just boring now to do Missions in a Battleship.

Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I just want to say at this point that I am over 40, and I like things to happen quickly too.

I am 55... But I am no Icelandic.
They are with 40' like others with 80' Twisted Already proofed by a 2.0 WarpSpeed of Icelandic Battleships
Tilde Keys
RedHat Enterprises
#660 - 2014-01-25 05:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tilde Keys
Here is a crazy question.

Why not show a graph for the last 4 months of how many people are flying Battleships in combat sites, missions, PVP, etc...etc...??

If everything is Unicorns and Rainbows as some say about the changes, the trend should be "about" the same over time around the release of the expansion. And if everything is doom and gloom like many pilots are posting, we should see a decrease.


Rattlesnake Warping