These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[NERF] Serpentis web bonus change

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-11-27 10:50:29 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:


They can remain unique and with a clear serpentis without 90% web.


The realm of Fozzie and Rise's creativity seems to be limited to 'add tracking /damage/tanking/optimal range bonuses and then add an ROF bonus and then give it a mwd sig reduction and we've now made that ship balanced and unique".

You see I know because they've had all t1 and t2 ships save recons now to 'be creative' with and all we've gotten in return is 200 flavors of what I just said.

These ships are unique now, and having these two snow flakes put a little magic in them along with that french guy who ignored 300 pages of user feed back does NOT inspire confidence when they just got done going through and making every ship a generic version of each other.

Pray tell fine poster what bonus could be given over to the Serpentis line that would keep their unique feel and performance while not being the same stupid bonuses that have been given to the other ships already?


Maybe something like a web bonus right?



Well they coudl simply nerf the bonus on the vindi and devil to 7.5% per level...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2013-11-27 10:51:11 UTC
Also Fozzie, I'm not sure what world you're playing in where DareDevils are out kiting the world, middle fingers in the air, but if you allowed yourself to walk among us mere mortals for a time you might find that you literally have zero idea what you're talking about and people **** daredevils constantly, and in t1 frigates, like crappy condors with tracking disruptors.


You know, because you wont fix light missiles.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-11-27 10:53:21 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Maybe something like a web bonus right?


I would quite happily trade that web bonus for a 90% Sensor Damp bonus.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-11-27 11:00:27 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:


Marauders(re-cap)
"I haven't flown one yet because I'm super cheap and scared to lose money."


Love this one.
The guy was directly involved in destroying the class, but has never flown one.
Indeed priceless.

Marauders are not destroyed. They are now extremely good. Learn to adapt to change.


Yes, incursion Marauders are indeed much better now! /s
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-11-27 11:01:44 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Maybe something like a web bonus right?


I would quite happily trade that web bonus for a 90% Sensor Damp bonus.





meehhh I would prefer a 900% hull resistance...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-11-27 11:03:38 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:


They can remain unique and with a clear serpentis without 90% web.


The realm of Fozzie and Rise's creativity seems to be limited to 'add tracking /damage/tanking/optimal range bonuses and then add an ROF bonus and then give it a mwd sig reduction and we've now made that ship balanced and unique".

You see I know because they've had all t1 and t2 ships save recons now to 'be creative' with and all we've gotten in return is 200 flavors of what I just said.

These ships are unique now, and having these two snow flakes put a little magic in them along with that french guy who ignored 300 pages of user feed back does NOT inspire confidence when they just got done going through and making every ship a generic version of each other.

Pray tell fine poster what bonus could be given over to the Serpentis line that would keep their unique feel and performance while not being the same stupid bonuses that have been given to the other ships already?


Maybe something like a web bonus right?


Pretty much this. Pirate ships should be oriented towards uniqueness and the Serpent is bonuses are fine in that regard.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#67 - 2013-11-27 11:17:09 UTC
brb ragequitting

.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-11-27 11:34:33 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Xolve wrote:
I would quite happily trade that web bonus for a 90% Sensor Damp bonus.


meehhh I would prefer a 900% hull resistance...


Seems slightly less glorious.
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#69 - 2013-11-27 11:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: OkaskiKali
SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH SIGH

Of and SIGH

Why does it need NERFING, why is the answer to Rebalancing always come in the form of a NERF? WHY, WHY WHY....

Get your thinking caps on and think about ways in which people who prepared for a certain situation are rewarded. Obviously the daredevil maintains range by using its 90% web bonus, SO WHAT, How about creating modules that can counter act the web bonus? A module that reverses the webbing effect while the attacker has it activated, I don't know but.....

STOP NERFING SH!T AND THEN CLAIM ITS ALL PART OF REBALANCING... By making things balanced you are feeding stagnation and it is very reactive, be proactive in this sense. PLEASE!

You have to give reasons for people to want to use ships and they have to have a bonuses, like wise a game that is diverse as Eve also has to reward people who put the time into training, fitting and practicing flying the ship in that specific way.

STOP NERFING things becuase people are crying that they are unbalanced, give us things that allow us to counter-act that particular bonus or type of game play.
Morwennon
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#70 - 2013-11-27 11:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwennon
I don't think it's so much a question of 90% webs being overpowered as it is of webs themselves being a bit too generally useful at the moment. As it stands, a regular 60% web is simultaneously a powerful tool for range/transversal control and around twice as powerful as a target painter for increasing the damage applied to a target due to the way the tracking formula and missile damage expression work. If you decoupled the range/transversal control from the direct effect on damage application, you'd probably make the game as a whole a lot more interesting as well as giving target painters more of a role and solving the "problem" of Vindicators acting as overtanked force multipliers (I'm not convinced that the DD having good range control is particularly problematic).
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#71 - 2013-11-27 11:57:41 UTC
Morwennon wrote:
I don't think it's so much a question of 90% webs being overpowered as it is of webs themselves being a bit too generally useful at the moment. As it stands, a regular 60% web is simultaneously a powerful tool for range/transversal control and around twice as powerful as a target painter for increasing the damage applied to a target due to the way the tracking formula and missile damage expression work. If you decoupled the range/transversal control from the direct effect on damage application, you'd probably make the game as a whole a lot more interesting as well as giving target painters more of a role and solving the "problem" of Vindicators acting as overtanked force multipliers (I'm not convinced that the DD having good range control is particularly problematic).


Like we have AB's that are immune to scramblers, How about a propulsion device that is immune to webs, but isn;t immune to the other warp disruption modules.

Like i said CCP doesn't always need to bring out the nerf bat when something is "overpowered"...
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2013-11-27 12:02:50 UTC
Morwennon wrote:
(I'm not convinced that the DD having good range control is particularly problematic).


Nobody else is either, Fozzie literally made it up, or perhaps kept it in the lame excuse box nestled in his canadian butt cheeks.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#73 - 2013-11-27 12:03:53 UTC
Morwennon wrote:
I don't think it's so much a question of 90% webs being overpowered as it is of webs themselves being a bit too generally useful at the moment. As it stands, a regular 60% web is simultaneously a powerful tool for range/transversal control and around twice as powerful as a target painter for increasing the damage applied to a target due to the way the tracking formula and missile damage expression work. If you decoupled the range/transversal control from the direct effect on damage application, you'd probably make the game as a whole a lot more interesting as well as giving target painters more of a role and solving the "problem" of Vindicators acting as overtanked force multipliers (I'm not convinced that the DD having good range control is particularly problematic).


Stasis Webifier II range: 10km
Target Painter II range: 45+90km

.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#74 - 2013-11-27 12:07:32 UTC
Morwennon wrote:
Stuff


So what you're saying is pretty much "stop messing with unique module-specific aspects of ships when it's the modules themselves that need a balance pass"?
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-11-27 12:07:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One thing I can say for sure though is that we consider the solo Daredevil and the force multiplier Vindicator to both be too strong in their current states, and that we recognize that the primary source of their disproportionate power is the web bonus (for different reasons as I said above).

Another thing I can say for sure is that we will never base our design decisions on what Nyancat has stockpiled or not stockpiled.



Eve doesn't need 50 shades of Drakes, Fozzie.

There is nothing wrong with the web bonus.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#76 - 2013-11-27 12:15:56 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One thing I can say for sure though is that we consider the solo Daredevil and the force multiplier Vindicator to both be too strong in their current states, and that we recognize that the primary source of their disproportionate power is the web bonus (for different reasons as I said above).

Another thing I can say for sure is that we will never base our design decisions on what Nyancat has stockpiled or not stockpiled.



Eve doesn't need 50 shades of Drakes, Fozzie.

There is nothing wrong with the web bonus.



Ewar Deflection modules would be an amazing game play that would certainly reward those players who prepare for a particular situation Deflection modules for jammers, target paints, webs, warp disruption, nos and neut, not only do you create a new game play, you allow people to still use the ship for their bonus in cases when the target isn't sufficiently prepared.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-11-27 12:19:03 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One thing I can say for sure though is that we consider the solo Daredevil and the force multiplier Vindicator to both be too strong in their current states, and that we recognize that the primary source of their disproportionate power is the web bonus (for different reasons as I said above).

Another thing I can say for sure is that we will never base our design decisions on what Nyancat has stockpiled or not stockpiled.



Eve doesn't need 50 shades of Drakes, Fozzie.

There is nothing wrong with the web bonus.



Ewar Deflection modules would be an amazing game play that would certainly reward those players who prepare for a particular situation Deflection modules for jammers, target paints, webs, warp disruption, nos and neut, not only do you create a new game play, you allow people to still use the ship for their bonus in cases when the target isn't sufficiently prepared.



One thing at a time.

First thing on the list:


Stop Fozzie from Writing 50 shades Drakier by removing one of the most iconic, role specific, and fun bonuses in the game.



THEN we can talk about anti-Ewar

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Icer Xx
Tempest Legion
#78 - 2013-11-27 12:26:44 UTC
Fozzie **** off you balding **** don't break the ******* vindi your ******* over Lowsec pilots.
GREYBOBSASS
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-11-27 12:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: GREYBOBSASS
OkaskiKali

Why does it need NERFING, why is the answer to [i wrote:
Rebalancing[/i] always come in the form of a NERF? WHY, WHY WHY....




because theyre a bunch of provi roaming noobs which cant even fly a t2 BS

And now got Dev power because of doing some lame 2h streams ******* up everyones game,

CCP Douchebag CCP fozzie

one more **** than another


Hilmar end this fiasko
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-11-27 12:33:10 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:


They can remain unique and with a clear serpentis without 90% web.


The realm of Fozzie and Rise's creativity seems to be limited to 'add tracking /damage/tanking/optimal range bonuses and then add an ROF bonus and then give it a mwd sig reduction and we've now made that ship balanced and unique".

You see I know because they've had all t1 and t2 ships save recons now to 'be creative' with and all we've gotten in return is 200 flavors of what I just said.

These ships are unique now, and having these two snow flakes put a little magic in them along with that french guy who ignored 300 pages of user feed back does NOT inspire confidence when they just got done going through and making every ship a generic version of each other.

Pray tell fine poster what bonus could be given over to the Serpentis line that would keep their unique feel and performance while not being the same stupid bonuses that have been given to the other ships already?


Maybe something like a web bonus right?



Well they coudl simply nerf the bonus on the vindi and devil to 7.5% per level...

You have obviously never flown either of the ships or you would understand why 7.5% is not enough.