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The Marmite Collective Wardeccing... for a good cause ? Really ?

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Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-11-27 11:45:34 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Obmud wrote:
I find it absolutely hillarious and sad at the same time how people justify this blackmailing by saying it's not blackmailing. And how some argue that the cause justifies all means.

It's not your business how much i donate and i don't let myself bully into it, end of line.

To the person who said i want the wardec lifted... right, Because the Viziam get wardecced so much. -.-


What's sad is that you would place hoarding your internet space riches above the well-being of others in real life.
If this is causing you sleepless nights, you may need to recalibrate your personal scale of atrocities..
"all means" indeed.. lmao.

If you're not inclined to pay, don't.


Calling me a hypocrite when you could have spent the last money you spent for a new computer to save children in africa. Please, please tell me again how i'm a bad person for deciding for myself what i want to do with my ingame money.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-11-27 11:49:40 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:


It's ok to ransom people in eve.
You are imposing what you think is good on others by denying this simple fact.



You keep reciting that, it's an opinion by the way not a fact. Lets try to do this eloquent then:


"It's ok to ransom people in eve."
Thats an absolute statement that implies that under ALL circumstances it's alright to ransom people.

I can easily come up with a couple examples the falsify that:


"Give me your Real Life adress or i will Harass you to no end."

"Give me 3 billion or i will make jokes about on Fanfest in a public Presentation and suggest that you should kill yourself"

"Give me this or i'll ******* murder you in real life"


Notice the thing ? It's not just "right" under any circumstance it's the means and consequences. Therefore again, keep ingame ingame. Do not mix it with other stuff.

And learn the difference between a factual statement and an opinion that has no actual arguments to support it.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2013-11-27 11:52:13 UTC
Imagine the outrage if the Red Cross would find out some of the money they received was earned by hurting peaceful rocks in a spaceship computer game… Roll

To stay on topic, we have on average 50 new wardecs every week, we negotiate surrender for isk on a daily basis and we sent out the mail in the OP to only a select few corps.

In other words, we know who you are… If you aren’t the CEO of your corp, I suggest you talk to him first before drama posting nonsense.
If you aren’t who we think you are than good job on taking things out of context and blowing them up well beyond any form of proportion.

Anyhow, as said before, we do other things for this particular charity in EVE employing our normal gameplay, we also are invested in other charities in and out of EVE.

Fly safe

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
RAW23
#44 - 2013-11-27 11:53:50 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Obmud wrote:
So it's ok to squeeze it out of people as long as you the agressor thinks it's for a good cause ? Got some news for you, noone does anything in this world without thinking in his mind that it's a good thing for one reason or another after weighing in the positives and negatives. Still we have wars in the real world over all kinds of stupid crap. Stop imposing what you think is good on others nomatter how clear it might be. Do and keep it ingame.


It's ok to ransom people in eve.
You are imposing what you think is good on others by denying this simple fact.



You're right, it is ok to ransom people in EvE. And it's also ok to donate the proceeds you receive from that ransom to a real life charity. It is far less clear that it is ok to coerce someone into making a donation to a real life charity through ingame means as that is not just an action within the magic circle but one that crosses the line between the world of EvE, where coercion is fine, and the real world, where it is not. CCP have treated the PFG drive as something that does NOT fall under the normal eve rules of engagement because of its overlap with real life and they have very good reasons for doing so.

Keeping the ransom and the donation separate maintains a clean distinction between the two worlds and stops any possible infringement of ingame ethics into the real world. But eliding the two actions and making the ingame victim make the out of game donation brings the two worlds with their two moral systems clashing together. And it does this for no real benefit.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#45 - 2013-11-27 11:55:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:



Considering the Red cross will use 90% of the money people donate just to pay the exorbitant salaries of their executives... that itself should get you a way bitter taste than anything related to wars. I myself would never donate a single penny to red cross. I just use this money to help smaller entities close by that I can see exactly how they use the money while operatign under the natinal jurisdiction and strictly forbidden to use the money for anything other than direct help.


According to http://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/annual-report/icrc-annual-report-2012.pdf

9 people received total compensation in the amount of kCHF 3'492 which is about kCHF 438 per person. The figure includes all costs related to these salaries.

That's a fine salary, but I guess that's what is needed in order to get persons that are capable to negotiate on head of state level which is what the president of the ICRC does after all.

Here you find an estimate of pay level of the US org: http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Red-Cross-Salaries-E2707.htm

No idea whether these figures are reliable, however, if they are it doesn't look exorbitant to me.

did you have other sources or are these the figures you consider exorbitant?
RAW23
#46 - 2013-11-27 11:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: RAW23
Danalee wrote:
Imagine the outrage if the Red Cross would find out some of the money they received was earned by hurting peaceful rocks in a spaceship computer game… Roll

To stay on topic, we have on average 50 new wardecs every week, we negotiate surrender for isk on a daily basis and we sent out the mail in the OP to only a select few corps.

In other words, we know who you are… If you aren’t the CEO of your corp, I suggest you talk to him first before drama posting nonsense.
If you aren’t who we think you are than good job on taking things out of context and blowing them up well beyond any form of proportion.

Anyhow, as said before, we do other things for this particular charity in EVE employing our normal gameplay, we also are invested in other charities in and out of EVE.

Fly safe

D.

Bear


Whatever your personal views on this I suggest petitioning to ask if it is acceptable. CCP have told individual pirates it is NOT ok to demand PFG donations as ransoms so you might want to make sure you are fully in-line with what CCP wants as far as the PFG drive is concerned. After all, this is about the charity right?

On the other hand, if this is all being misrepresented in the OP then we're wasting valuable pixels discussing something that didn't happen.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-11-27 11:58:04 UTC
Obmud wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:


It's ok to ransom people in eve.
You are imposing what you think is good on others by denying this simple fact.



You keep reciting that, it's an opinion by the way not a fact. Lets try to do this eloquent then:


"It's ok to ransom people in eve."
Thats an absolute statement that implies that under ALL circumstances it's alright to ransom people.

I can easily come up with a couple examples the falsify that:


"Give me your Real Life adress or i will Harass you to no end."

"Give me 3 billion or i will make jokes about on Fanfest in a public Presentation and suggest that you should kill yourself"

"Give me this or i'll ******* murder you in real life"


Notice the thing ? It's not just "right" under any circumstance it's the means and consequences. Therefore again, keep ingame ingame. Do not mix it with other stuff.

And learn the difference between a factual statement and an opinion that has no actual arguments to support it.



I won't go through the trouble of quantifying my statements to account for readers who lack common sense.
If you feel your examples are arguably on the same level as the Marmite Plex for Good drive, I pity you.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#48 - 2013-11-27 11:58:12 UTC
Sounds to me like Marmite is saying "We're gonna do what we always do, wardec all the things. If you'd like out in a slightly easier fashion than normal, donate to PFG!"

Which, since it's nothing they wouldn't be doing in the first place... makes it fine. It'd be a bit better if they simply demanded a plex and donated it themselves, but hey, I'm not picky.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2013-11-27 11:59:15 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Imagine the outrage if the Red Cross would find out some of the money they received was earned by hurting peaceful rocks in a spaceship computer game… Roll

To stay on topic, we have on average 50 new wardecs every week, we negotiate surrender for isk on a daily basis and we sent out the mail in the OP to only a select few corps.

In other words, we know who you are… If you aren’t the CEO of your corp, I suggest you talk to him first before drama posting nonsense.
If you aren’t who we think you are than good job on taking things out of context and blowing them up well beyond any form of proportion.

Anyhow, as said before, we do other things for this particular charity in EVE employing our normal gameplay, we also are invested in other charities in and out of EVE.

Fly safe

D.

Bear


Thank you so much for your professional consideration. And yeah of course you know who i am. I'm posting this with my main, not an alt, THIS is my main and he's in an npc corp what the heck do you want more ? Thank you for suggesting that isn't a big thing, apparently it is judging by the amount of posts this has generated. I'm not apologizing for having an opinion on the matter and i have no CEO to answer to.

" If you aren’t who we think you are than good job on taking things out of context and blowing them up well beyond any form of proportion."

Oh so you DIDNT send this mail out ? I dearly apologize if you didnt, but you DID. I QUOTED you, i didnt even recite any ingame events 2nd hand. Get a grip.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-11-27 12:00:34 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Obmud wrote:




I won't go through the trouble of quantifying my statements to account for readers who lack common sense.
If you feel your examples are arguably on the same level as the Marmite Plex for Good drive, I pity you.




False analogy, ad hominem.

This argument is indeed over.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#51 - 2013-11-27 12:00:35 UTC
Obmud wrote:
You are being serious, are you ?

Blackmail is an act, often a crime, involving unjustified threats to make a gain or cause loss to another unless a demand is met.[1][2] It may be defined as coercion involving threats of physical harm, threat of criminal prosecution, or threats for the purposes of taking the person's money or property.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail

Cool, a definition from wikipedia. Here's a definition from the dictionary;

black·mail
n.
1.
a. Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
b. Something of value extorted in this manner.

Uh-huh.

Oh god.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#52 - 2013-11-27 12:03:11 UTC
Obmud wrote:
So it's ok to squeeze it out of people as long as you the agressor thinks it's for a good cause?

Whether it's for a good cause or not is irrelevant. It's okay to do it under any circumstances.

Oh god.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2013-11-27 12:03:39 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Obmud wrote:
You are being serious, are you ?

Blackmail is an act, often a crime, involving unjustified threats to make a gain or cause loss to another unless a demand is met.[1][2] It may be defined as coercion involving threats of physical harm, threat of criminal prosecution, or threats for the purposes of taking the person's money or property.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail

Cool, a definition from wikipedia. Here's a definition from the dictionary;

black·mail
n.
1.
a. Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
b. Something of value extorted in this manner.

Uh-huh.


Eh, yes ? Do you like to punch yourself in the face ? That is exactly the point that was made against you.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#54 - 2013-11-27 12:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Ayn Rand is spinning in her grave right now.

I support marmite fully, the Robin Hoods of Eve. Pirate
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#55 - 2013-11-27 12:04:32 UTC
Obmud wrote:
False analogy, ad hominem

Quote:
"Give me your Real Life adress or i will Harass you to no end."

"Give me 3 billion or i will make jokes about on Fanfest in a public Presentation and suggest that you should kill yourself"

"Give me this or i'll ******* murder you in real life"

LOL.

Oh god.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2013-11-27 12:06:09 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Ayn Rand is spinning in her grave.


That actually just made me look her name up, ordering a book a right now =)

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#57 - 2013-11-27 12:06:14 UTC
Obmud wrote:
Eh, yes ? Do you like to punch yourself in the face ? That is exactly the point that was made against you.

Oh really? So how is Marmite Collective issuing "threats of physical harm, threat of criminal prosecution, or threats for the purposes of taking the person's money or property", exactly?

Oh god.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-11-27 12:06:18 UTC

Because declaring yourself the victor of an argument means you were right.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2013-11-27 12:07:00 UTC
OP,

Did you receive the mail yourself? (NO!)
Did you receive the mails that were sent beforehand? (NO)

What are you complaining about than?
If the original receiver of said mail would speak up with his/her main we'd have a basis for a discussion.
I take it he/she won't however, since we talked about it before and after the sending of said mail.

Sorry I can't say many concrete things because THAT would be embarassing for some.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Fia Magrath
The Clown Inquisition
#60 - 2013-11-27 12:09:15 UTC
don't like it? join NPC corp. Corps are there to be wardec'd, matters not what the cause is.