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[Suggestion] : Faction Weapons

Author
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association
Local Is Primary
#1 - 2013-11-22 13:35:45 UTC
Make Faction Weapons Tech II.

At least as a split such as:

Sansha Pulse Laser - Tech 1
True Sansha Pulse Laser - Tech 2
Chelm's Modified Pulse Laser - Tech 2


Imperial Navy Laser - Tech 1
Amarr Imperial Navy Laser - Tech 2 - (or just introduce Imperial Navy Laser 2).


You'd think the faction commanders would be smart enough to use Tech 2 ammo?



"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-11-22 14:29:08 UTC
+1, although I might make the split a Navy vs pirate split
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#3 - 2013-11-22 14:48:13 UTC
No

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#4 - 2013-11-22 17:08:44 UTC
Having officer guns use T2 ammo +1
Having any faction gun use T2 ammo -1

The whole idea of faction guns is to give someone access with similar stats to a T2 gun, but can't use T2 ammo because it has virtually no training time to use them. Officer guns on the other hand are just stupidly expensive and the relative rarity of them can be justified in allowing them to use T2 ammo.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-11-26 14:38:55 UTC
You only save 30 days or so of training time, and thats for the large guns, and they aren't "similar stats", at close range, your tachs/rails/arty track 25% worse.
At long range, the DPS comparison is lul worthy, and at all ranges, the T2s out DPS the faction.

The faction guns are nigh useless.... this should change.
Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#6 - 2013-11-26 15:44:34 UTC
I'd prefer it if weapon specialization skills just applied to all weapons (and drones) instead of just T2.

Then faction weapons (and high meta) would all get buffed and lower the gap between weapons so long as you had the skills trained.

T2 weapons would still retain their T2 ammo ability over T1/faction
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-11-26 16:13:32 UTC
Quote:
The whole idea of faction guns is to give someone access with similar stats to a T2 gun, but can't use T2 ammo because it has virtually no training time to use them. Officer guns on the other hand are just stupidly expensive and the relative rarity of them can be justified in allowing them to use T2 ammo.


I can't believe anyone seriously uses this justification

-In all other areas, faction mods are strictly better than T2. Should these mods all be nerfed to fit in with the gun paradigm?
-How many people actually use faction guns for anything? Isn't that evidence enough that the "Less training time" bonus isn't enough?
Naomi Anthar
#8 - 2013-11-26 16:50:58 UTC
I have suggested this long time ago. It's kinda funny that super rare pirate faction/navy weapons are inferior to tech 2 ... which is against any logic. Higher meta, higher price, more rare.

But by all means also apply t2 req to those weapons to use. Because it would be funny to use scorch when you got no laser specialization in first place.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#9 - 2013-11-26 17:36:35 UTC
i think the better option is to make them more racial bonused so there is a reason to use them over each other and over T2..
it might be difficult to balance out with T2 versions mind...

potential bonuses to faction gun variants
- ROF
- lower cap usage - mainly amarr guns
- higher range - falloff for minnie
- better tracking
etc...

but also faction/T1 ammo need a rework anyway could be a interesting way to add choices rather than take away choices

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Naomi Anthar
#10 - 2013-11-26 18:22:59 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
i think the better option is to make them more racial bonused so there is a reason to use them over each other and over T2..
it might be difficult to balance out with T2 versions mind...

potential bonuses to faction gun variants
- ROF
- lower cap usage - mainly amarr guns
- higher range - falloff for minnie
- better tracking
etc...

but also faction/T1 ammo need a rework anyway could be a interesting way to add choices rather than take away choices


Screw your cap usage bonus put it on projectiles duh ... lasers dont want it either.
PavlikX
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#11 - 2013-11-26 18:41:05 UTC
Compleetly disagree with topic starter.
There is no need of new faction levels.

Meantime rebalance of faction and officer weapons strongly needed.
My idea is - bring new skills. Let say it will be "republic fleet amunition specialisation" and so on.
Each level gives 2-3% to damage, but only in case if you use republic fleet ammo in republic fleet cannons.
It is not a copy of T2 weapons, faction weapons can not have ability to use T2 ammo.

Somthing similar can be done with officer weapons.
Jaz Antollare
UrAnus Probing Squad
#12 - 2013-11-26 19:44:58 UTC
Hell no, just make it that those meta 6+ Weapons can use T2 ammo!
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#13 - 2013-11-26 20:12:23 UTC
I agree that there aren't many reasons for a decent player to be using faction weapons over T2 weapons. I also agree with the disconnect between faction mods and faction weapons. i.e Caldari Navy Ballistic Controls are better than T2, but T2 launchers are better than CN launchers.
Maybe some kind of faction T2?
Or, as Harvey suggested, bonus them in some way so that my CN launchers would fire faster but have a 1 second longer reload or something. Or they fire slightly slower, but have a faster initial velocity. Thus the overall balance of the modules shouldn't be thrown off while encouraging the situational use of faction weapons and rewarding players who can properly choose based on their situation.
Mirima Thurander
#14 - 2013-11-26 23:13:59 UTC
i support this so long as you move T2 ammo to need the T2 turret skills to use.


All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Hanna Cyrus
Spessart Rebellen
#15 - 2013-11-27 00:45:49 UTC
The game is about decisions. If you want to have best guns (T2) with spec and t2 ammunition, skill it. If you don't want, you can buy the faction ones, with less skills in gunnery and have a good performance. Decision here: bring SP or ISK.

You want: bring SP and ISK! Where is there the decision? I say: leave it at the status we have now, i don't like the changes to skill large weapons without medium and small.
I think T2 should always all about the best, if you want it skill it or pay much more ISK with less SP to have the same performance. Don't come me with vet player vs. newb. If you have the core skills for your career, you can easily use with little more SP a broader band of what you prefer.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#16 - 2013-11-27 01:50:53 UTC
Hanna Cyrus wrote:
The game is about decisions. If you want to have best guns (T2) with spec and t2 ammunition, skill it. If you don't want, you can buy the faction ones, with less skills in gunnery and have a good performance. Decision here: bring SP or ISK.

You want: bring SP and ISK! Where is there the decision? I say: leave it at the status we have now, i don't like the changes to skill large weapons without medium and small.
I think T2 should always all about the best, if you want it skill it or pay much more ISK with less SP to have the same performance. Don't come me with vet player vs. newb. If you have the core skills for your career, you can easily use with little more SP a broader band of what you prefer.

Now go and look at almost every other faction item. Like Shield & Armour modules, Microwarp Drives, After Burners, Weapon Upgrades. And tell me that T2 is better than faction there.
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#17 - 2013-11-27 01:58:07 UTC
like it. Just bear in mind some faction are there for fitting purposes, not DPS.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#18 - 2013-11-27 02:00:52 UTC
Moonaura wrote:
like it. Just bear in mind some faction are there for fitting purposes, not DPS.

Agreed, but if they are there for fitting they can still be allowed to use T2 Ammo, just the base stats/dps don't have to be better than a T2 Weapon.
Also agree that T2 Ammo use would need to be restricted to T2 Weapon skills to make this work, which wouldn't really change anything for anyone really, other than allow it in the Faction/Officer guns.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#19 - 2013-11-27 05:20:19 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
The whole idea of faction guns is to give someone access with similar stats to a T2 gun, but can't use T2 ammo because it has virtually no training time to use them. Officer guns on the other hand are just stupidly expensive and the relative rarity of them can be justified in allowing them to use T2 ammo.


I can't believe anyone seriously uses this justification

-In all other areas, faction mods are strictly better than T2. Should these mods all be nerfed to fit in with the gun paradigm?
-How many people actually use faction guns for anything? Isn't that evidence enough that the "Less training time" bonus isn't enough?


-Should T2 gun training time also be reduced to that of T2 modules?
-I have used faction guns before on my PVE ships until I can use T2

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#20 - 2013-11-27 05:25:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
I would support Officer weapons being superior to T2, requiring T2 skills to use and being able to use T2 ammo. I would even support them requiring Specialization to V as a result of this.

I would not support Faction weapons being included in this change, however.
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