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Cloaky, Nullified Strategic Cruisers
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Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#141 - 2011-11-20 18:40:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
fRoDdEr's wrote:
Very original idea, would you explain how I should do this?
Ctrl-Click, F1.


Made me Big smile
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#142 - 2011-11-20 19:26:02 UTC
Zhula Guixgrixks wrote:
Andski wrote:
Zhula Guixgrixks wrote:
Nullified ships , JFs etc are not compatible with the "Risk vs. Reward" doctrine.

CCP really needs to revisit it.


ah yes, I realize that escorting freighters is ~super fun~ to you but it's not for the rest of us


I remember the times and it was fun. It all depends how you see this game. If you feel very serious about it (work!)
than it's a pain, but again thats your problem.

Eve has lot of counters for ships travelling trough gates. It's quite good balanced with only one exception (Nullifiers)
But it's still somehow balanced.

When it comes to JF logistics...sorry there is no real counter to it. Every kindergarden ape can do JF logistics.
Thats really bad for the game.


Careless JF pilots lose their ships all the time, especially the idiots that jump to POS beacons and are totally surprised when a Nyx shows up.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
fRoDdEr's
Ostsupport
#143 - 2011-11-20 21:06:18 UTC
Andski wrote:
Zhula Guixgrixks wrote:
Andski wrote:
Zhula Guixgrixks wrote:
Nullified ships , JFs etc are not compatible with the "Risk vs. Reward" doctrine.

CCP really needs to revisit it.


ah yes, I realize that escorting freighters is ~super fun~ to you but it's not for the rest of us


I remember the times and it was fun. It all depends how you see this game. If you feel very serious about it (work!)
than it's a pain, but again thats your problem.

Eve has lot of counters for ships travelling trough gates. It's quite good balanced with only one exception (Nullifiers)
But it's still somehow balanced.

When it comes to JF logistics...sorry there is no real counter to it. Every kindergarden ape can do JF logistics.
Thats really bad for the game.


Careless JF pilots lose their ships all the time, especially the idiots that jump to POS beacons and are totally surprised when a Nyx shows up.


People will always be careless and this will result in ship losses.

Balance is also about having to risk your ship/assets in order to achieve a goal. A good JF will NOT die (cyno to station systems only). Same applies for cloaky T3's.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2011-11-20 21:21:13 UTC
balance is an lie.

Unless you uni-form all ships and weapon systems, so there will be totally one prefitted ship its not balanced.

So just learn how and when ... and dont bother about balancing anything.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#145 - 2011-11-20 21:24:27 UTC
fRoDdEr's wrote:
People will always be careless and this will result in ship losses.

Balance is also about having to risk your ship/assets in order to achieve a goal. A good JF will NOT die (cyno to station systems only). Same applies for cloaky T3's.


So, in your opinion, it's not right that a player with years of experience through trial and error should be able to mitigate the inherent risks of moving assets around or traveling?

I move stuff around in a covops a lot, and I run bubble camps like a boss by using bounce points and off-gate warpins. Should covops frigates be nerfed because they're "overpowered?"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#146 - 2011-11-20 21:29:00 UTC
Nul QQ !!!!!

Over freakin' Cloaky ships.

The poor dears can't see you. Oh my. It's 'just SO uspetting !!! QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ


Love it!

Look who's cryin' now.


I guess the philosophical mindset is NERF EVERYTHING except things that can chase ALL new player subscribers away.

Way to go guys.


KILL your own game.

IDIOTS ALL.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
fRoDdEr's
Ostsupport
#147 - 2011-11-20 21:30:50 UTC
Andski wrote:
fRoDdEr's wrote:
People will always be careless and this will result in ship losses.

Balance is also about having to risk your ship/assets in order to achieve a goal. A good JF will NOT die (cyno to station systems only). Same applies for cloaky T3's.


So, in your opinion, it's not right that a player with years of experience through trial and error should be able to mitigate the inherent risks of moving assets around or traveling?

I move stuff around in a covops a lot, and I run bubble camps like a boss by using bounce points and off-gate warpins. Should covops frigates be nerfed because they're "overpowered?"


mitigate = unkillable
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#148 - 2011-11-20 21:31:02 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Nul QQ !!!!!

Over freakin' Cloaky ships.

The poor dears can't see you. Oh my. It's 'just SO uspetting !!! QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ


Love it!

Look who's cryin' now.


I guess the philosophical mindset is NERF EVERYTHING except things that can chase ALL new player subscribers away.

Way to go guys.


KILL your own game.

IDIOTS ALL.


This is an English only forum, just so you know

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#149 - 2011-11-20 21:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
fRoDdEr's wrote:
Andski wrote:
fRoDdEr's wrote:
People will always be careless and this will result in ship losses.

Balance is also about having to risk your ship/assets in order to achieve a goal. A good JF will NOT die (cyno to station systems only). Same applies for cloaky T3's.


So, in your opinion, it's not right that a player with years of experience through trial and error should be able to mitigate the inherent risks of moving assets around or traveling?

I move stuff around in a covops a lot, and I run bubble camps like a boss by using bounce points and off-gate warpins. Should covops frigates be nerfed because they're "overpowered?"


mitigate = unkillable


Yeah, deal with it. With intelligence and/or experience, you can avoid getting killed by scrubs sitting on a gate with a bubble.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#150 - 2011-11-20 21:35:48 UTC
"cloaky nullified T3s are unkillable and it's not because I'm terrible, I'm obviously the best pvper in the universe"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#151 - 2011-11-20 21:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Karn Dulake
StillBorn CrackBaby wrote:
Yes, we must nerf everything to compensate for lousy pilots...




Possibly the best quote i have ever read on these forums.




You are supposed to have an interceptor sitting on the gate with its microwarp drive already running. You can figure out the win.


EDIT

1. I fly a pilgrim and i fly through all gatecamps i meet. You gate campers should be ashamed of yourselves. if you cant catch me what chance do you have with a T3.
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#152 - 2011-11-20 21:40:39 UTC
fRoDdEr's wrote:
mitigate = unkillable
No. Mitigate = more able to avoid clumsy campers = still killable but not-clumsy ones.
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
#153 - 2011-11-20 21:55:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks
Andski wrote:

I move stuff around in a covops a lot, and I run bubble camps like a boss by using bounce points and off-gate warpins. Should covops frigates be nerfed because they're "overpowered?"


No, Cov-Ops are perfectly fine. Flying one you take a small risk. It's small but it still is a risk.
Nullfiers and JF, I don't see any risk at all.

Ofc you can catch a braindead pilot but there is a
difference between nullifier and cov-op.
You can catch a fully consious and experienced cov-op pilot using
real skills. It's almost not possible to catch an average or even bad pilot flying nullified T3.

0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story 
chrisss0r
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2011-11-20 22:29:51 UTC
this thread really shows the effect i described in my earlier post.

Instead of realizing that it is a no brainer to get through even competent gate camps in a nully-cloaky many pilots who fly it still think it's because they are superamazing.

If the tengu pilot isn't brain dead or crashes in the righ moment (which has nothing to do with balancing) it is simply impossible to catch him on a gate.

A tengu has an align time of 4 seconds.

A dramiel with mwd on which is by far the most agile ship in the game needs 3-4 seconds to cross the 12 km from the gate to the spot where the tengu was before he cloaked. Even if the dramiel is dead on and decloaks the tengu after 3 seconds he will still not catch him because he takes another second to lock and another second to point him.

It's just funny how arrogant people with a terrible pvp record are and assume everyone else must be extremely terrible because they get away in their cloaky nullified t3.

i know i am terrible at eve and still i get away without any effort from people who are actually kinda good because the concept is extremely broken
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#155 - 2011-11-20 22:35:50 UTC
chrisss0r wrote:
If the tengu pilot isn't brain dead or crashes in the righ moment (which has nothing to do with balancing) it is simply impossible to catch him on a gate.


because every cloaky nullified tengu that has been killed (there are lots) was either braindead or crashed upon jump-in

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
chrisss0r
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2011-11-20 22:51:01 UTC
Andski wrote:
chrisss0r wrote:
If the tengu pilot isn't brain dead or crashes in the righ moment (which has nothing to do with balancing) it is simply impossible to catch him on a gate.


because every cloaky nullified tengu that has been killed (there are lots) was either braindead or crashed upon jump-in


yes. This is something else i already said. Just because some die doesn't mean there is no balancing issue.

12 km/s curses in the nanoage died sometimes
supercarriers die every now and then

hell even nullified t3 botters die sometimes when they get scramed by a rat the second someone jumps in and can't kill it in time

I'm not saying that i have any authority on what is balanced or not in eve but if the only responses to a balancing discussions are LOLOL LEARN TO EVE. and NO BECAUSE LAST WEEK ONE OF THEM DIED. then it's a good indicator.
snake03
#157 - 2012-01-05 07:48:52 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Gogela wrote:
fRoDdEr's wrote:

There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.


QFT.

A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught.

A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec.

I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance.

EDIT:

Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist Fit
High: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak
Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II
Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II
Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II
Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier

= Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler


Hey look how bad at EVE you are.


You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.


1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.

1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.

2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k


If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.

You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.


Well said.... this pretty much makes this topic a mute point.. T3's are fine.

I'm just a modern day caveman in search of a bigger club.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#158 - 2012-01-05 08:00:10 UTC
"Only sacrifice dps"

So this is once again about fighting the ships that can't fight back, rather than fighting the ships that can fight back?

I don't think CCP can nerf coward so just gank it or something.
lior narkis
Massive Dynamic weapons
#159 - 2012-01-05 08:20:24 UTC
StillBorn CrackBaby wrote:
Yes, we must nerf everything to compensate for lousy pilots...


This.

Same goes for unscannable ships.

Its a shame.
Zofe Stormcaller
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2012-01-05 11:51:32 UTC
Here is how you kill them.

Your gatecamp needs to have light interdictors with multiple bubbles. You need to organise them so that when the the t3 jumps in they only drop one bubble, or you anchor a few bubblerss to the gate. The t3 will appear for a split second as it cloaks and starts warping. The second this happens you drop another bubble which will cancel the t3's warp. You have your light dictors drop fresh bubbles every second or so while your interceptors with drones assigned burn for and decloak the t3 before the t3 hits align speed from spamming the warp button in a panic.

This kills the t3.