Ships & Modules

The intention of this post is to give an idea and assign weights to several factors you may want to take into consideration when running a Vargur in level 4 missions. I do not intended to compare the current vargur to the pre-rubicon vargur. I do not intend to compare the vargur to the Machariel.

Much of the info in this post is stuff I had already put together in the Marauder rebalancing thread, so I figured I may as well organize it a little better and post it in this thread for those who might find it helpful.

This might get a little long so:
= TLDR =
When you can:
avoid bastion
avoid MJD
run as you would before rubicon with 1 additional utility high and also keeping in mind mobility and drone bandwidth nerfs

To get a few things out of the way, here is the cookie cutter that the majority of this post is going to be based around:

- Minimum hardwirings -
EO-605
TA-705
EM-805
SS-905 <- yeah you could gain +2dps going RF-905... Id rather have the alpha at that point xD
LP-1005

Rigs:
Burst II
Ambit I

Lows:
RF Gyro x3
Gyro II <-difference between RF and T2 by 4th gyro is approx 8dps upgrade if you want
TE II

Meds:
AB/MWD
Faction TC x2 with 2 of each script available
(3 remaining meds discussed later and is kinda what this post is about)

Highs:
800mm II x4 w/ RF ammo (short range)
Tractor II x3
(1 remaining high discussed later and is kinda what this post is about)

- cookie cutter stats -
opt/falloff: 4.2 + 74
DPS: 1155
DPS @ 40KM: ~926


= Rubicon Considerations =

I am having a bit of trouble deciding where to start, so i guess to cover the general intention of these extra slots.... the 3 meds can be used to fit:
* a 3 slot level 4 tank w/o bastion leaving an extra high
* a 2 slot level 4 tank w/ bastion leaving an extra med


- Micro Jump Drive: Avoid Fitting -
It should be noted that MJD are rarely necessary and seldom reduce mission clear time better than AB/MWD w/ proper planning.

AB/MWD frequently benefit the vargur b/c of falloff and tracking mechanics. In general AB/MWD > MJD. Remember that for distances shorter than 100km, the MJD needs to align/spool, jump, then realign to start closing the gap...

The moral of the story is should you require a MJD for a mission (ex: Serpentis Massive Attack), go dual prop... but there is a bit of a catch:


- Bastion Module: Avoid Fitting -

There are a couple of instances where bastion is a good choice:
* heavy EWAR
* Free a slot to go dual prop (in the rare occasions in which MJDs are necessary)

However, the activation of the bastion module makes you stationary for 60 seconds... which is a significant drawback on a ship that works in falloff, especially when you consider the stacking penalties of bastion's projection bonus. Here are some numbers:

Let's compare some fits:
the above cookie cutter (we'll call fit A)
fit A + bastion module (we'll call fit B, potentially the dual prop fit)
fit A + bastion module + 3rd faction TC (we'll call fit C)

A's DPS @ 40km is ~926
B's DPS @ 40km is ~955 (bastioned)
C's DPS @ 40km ix ~964 (unbastioned)
C's DPS @ 40km is ~978 (bastioned)
A -> C (unbastioned) = ~4.1% increase
A -> C (bastioned) = ~5.6% increase
(keep in mind these increases are smaller the closer the target is.)

Bastioned fits are locked down for a min.
Unbastioned fits move 4.5km via MWD...
DPS is now:
A's DPS @ 35.5KM is ~979
B's DPS @ 40KM is ~955 (bastioned)
C's DPS @ 35.5KM is ~1010 (unbastioned)
C's DPS @ 40KM is ~978 (bastioned)
A -> C (unbastioned) = ~3.1% increase

As you can see, after taking just a few seconds to move 4.5KM, fit A is able to exceed C's bastioned DPS.
* Fit A can continue to raise its DPS in the time B and C are locked down.
* Fit A can make use of its mobility to lower its target's angular.
* Fits B and C still need to catch up / make up it's distance disadvantage after bastion ends.

At the end of the day for general mission running (outside the need for MJD or EWAR immunity), the questions are:
* Can you stay out of bastion long enough with a 2 slot tank, so that gains from a 3rd TC will surpass the losses taken when activating bastion?
A: Maybe, depending on the mission

* If so, will those gains be large enough to surpass the gains from running a 4 optional high (tractor/salvager) instead of the bastion module?
(ex: even if you were able to maintain a 5% dps advantage... which you cant... and that 5% increase directly resulted in 1:1 better clear time... which it wont... On a 20min mission, it's about a 1 minute difference. Does that 1 minute reduction in clear time generate more value than dropping bastion and running an additional optional high for the entire mission?)
A: In most cases no.

This is essentially fit C listed above. Outside of heavy ewar, any time u use bastion, fit A will start to outdmg you after the first few seconds of being locked down. If you end up maintaining a dps advantage over fit A b/c of limited use of bastion, the difference in average clear time of a 20min mission will realistically be less than 1 min. You'll be more profitable running a 3 med tank, dropping bastion, and running an extra salvager / tractor beam for the mission's duration.

If you go whit a Cap Booster why not use a X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster serves both , i've used a setup whit 2 and Amplifiers , works good .

Another reason to use the Bastion is range , the 800 have a max in my case whit some hardwrings a falloff of 68 km .

However your mid's are full then so meaning slow boating

kind of a long op, but just to summarize a few points:
* If you fit but dont activate bastion, you've wasted a slot.
* If you just add bastion in addition to your pre-rubicon fit, the extra tank from bastion is redundant
* You could free a mid that was used for tanking to compensate for bastion's tanking bonus, but the TC you might use to fill that slot so stacking penalized that you would gain more by using the mid slot for a tanking module, then increase your isk/time gains by using an extra tractor / salvager in baston's high slot.
* If you activate bastion, you will lose dps in most circumstances because dps gains from mobility in 1 minute are generally greater than the gains made via bastion's stacking penalized projection bonus.

The only real benefit of bastion in level 4s is the ewar immunity, which is very useful and appreciated on some missions dont get me wrong xD. But if the mission doesnt contain strong ewar, you should use the high slot for something else. In a general isk per time context outside of the ewar immunity, salvager / tractor > bastion.

Thorough OP and excellent fitting as a benchmark. Bastion does have it's use though; immobility is generally good for sustained shooting purposes when rat spawns split around. I would fit it and regulate the use.

It is kind of hard to drop 3 tank mods on a 3 slot tank.

Also if you don't want to be forced to bastion up all the time and the ability to move the hull you need 1-2 resist mods, at what point you are in the same setup again my Vargur used before bastion(just a lot slower).

There's a few missions where bastion is useful, like Damsel, Vengeance or Buzz kill to name a few. Not needed, but nice to have.