These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Racial Fighting styles?

Author
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-11-25 15:14:35 UTC
Would you be able to summarize the small gang (10 or less) pvp fighting style of each of the races? Or at least tell me if I have it close? I've been flying with my corp who has been using a lot of gallente stuff. Typically gallente feel fairly tanky, but have the high DPS to burn through the biggest stuff first (which I don't think is always the right choice with all gangs). Let me know if I am close with some of these. I think a lot of this is pretty general, but I really think there are more or less 'loose' fighting styles for each race.


Gallente:
Tackle biggest targets. Burn through DPS or logi. In even/outnumbered gangs you generally win through DPS race. Damps force ranged fits closer. Weakest against kitey setups. Strongest against other brawlers. The skill here feels minimal. Approach/orbit target, launch drones, tackle nearby stuff...

Minmatar:
Speed and versitility is their biggest asset. Minmatar style makes me think of the quick running back that is great at stiff arming the defense coming at him. Often can trade a launcher highslot (or two) for neuts that help in taking down support. Their balanced layouts lead me to believe that if you fly minmatar armor brawlers, your best bet is to work on support first. If you have enough webs in the fleet so be able to mitigate a lot of the damage through kiting or staying under guns, then getting rid of enemy gang tackle (fast/heavy) opens up your options. If you fly shield/kitey fit, you are much more cap vulnerable, so you'll be more likely to stay outside of neut range, but you'll also have more DPS so you can target the bigger stuff first. Piloting with minmatar feels the most paramount. Using your speed to maximize transversal on the most targets will be most important for mitigating damage.

Amarr:
I have no skills in amarr hulls/weapons other than frigates II. I don't really get them other than they seem like slightly mobile turrets (if they aren't the kitey navy-slicer-esque snipers). Their fast-swapping crystals lets them have pretty flexible damage application. At close range, they become neut vulnerable, but also are often packing their own neuts. They still seem to hit pretty hard and consistently at medium range with the right crystals. Their DPS is great against shield gangs that they can hold down, but paltry against nuet-resistant armor gangs. The skill for amarr seems to come with capacitor management. Swapping in/out crystals at the right time and watching your cap will let you fully utilize your hulls.

Caldari:
I've seen gangs of these guys the least. In their small gang setups, I would guess that you should fear fast and kitey DPS that is hard to mitigate. It is kind of tough to outrun/disrupt/neut missiles. Their high resists make them tough targets for anything other than EMP projectile ammo, lasers, and mjolnir missiles. They can bring damage directly against your largest resist holes making their DPS pretty hard-hitting when cleverly applied. When they bring ECM, they can quickly render the core pillar of your fleet (DPS or logistics) useless. I feel like the gang-related skills of the caldari style aren't too known for me. I would guess it involves target selection, picking your right ammo, and maximizing application when a target is vulnerable.
Sai Weisman
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-11-25 17:13:27 UTC
While I like the idea you're looking at here, most fleets aren't really built along racial lines. You provided the example of Gallente using damps to force the enemies in close, but the Maulus can also be used in a kiting fleet against other long range ships to prevent them from targeting you (just as a quick example).

That aside, if you're just looking at individual ships, you should pay attention to the tank bonuses - the Gallente and Minmatar have bonuses for active tanks, and their logistics ships are designed to be run on a solo set up. The Amarr and Caldari have resist bonuses (which scales with both their own tank and remote reps), and their logistics are designed to be run with a cap chain.

The other kind of noteworthy thing for Minmatar is that their ships have really small signature radii. For both turrets and missiles, this means that your ship straight up takes less damage as long as it's moving, which means that Minmatar ships are often a bit hardier than their numbers make them out to be.
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#3 - 2013-11-25 17:52:47 UTC
Tbh..ccp pretty much tells u this in the new ISiS thingie,if u look at description for each ship race u see some atribute icons of that ships strong points.from that u can easly deduce what info u need.


On topic tough , i cba to type a book but i can say this much...ur half right on all races

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !

Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#4 - 2013-11-25 21:10:41 UTC
Take a look as to what the ship does, what it is "meant to do" and do the exact opposite. Moa used to be a sniper boat? Nah, fit blasters. Thorax is a Gallente Hybrid Platform, fit blasters? No way, kitey rails!

Ventures for mining? Nope, lets go do FW 'Venture' edition. Basically what I'm saying is that people will look at certain stats of a ship and abuse those stats to fit their own preferential fighting style. Pushing ships to extremes as opposed to constantly seeking a more standard balanced fit.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#5 - 2013-11-25 21:34:33 UTC
Berluth Luthian wrote:


Gallente:
The skill here feels minimal.



100% this.


Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-11-25 22:00:38 UTC
Its entirely ship to ship, class to class.

None of the races really has a set playstyle anymore.

But i guess gallente are the most brawly, minmatar/caldari are the most kitey and amarr are the most baddie.

But thats a massive oversimplification.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#7 - 2013-11-26 01:22:33 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Its entirely ship to ship, class to class.

None of the races really has a set playstyle anymore.

But i guess gallente are the most brawly, minmatar/caldari are the most kitey and amarr are the most baddie.

But thats a massive oversimplification.

yep after nerf 14 ships of amarr with 1% less res per level it killed amarr. so stupid

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#8 - 2013-11-26 04:40:48 UTC
Your idea would have been spot on a few expansions ago, but since then CCP has homogenized the 4 races, so they can each have a ship that performs a certain role, albeit some better than others. Each race has a kiter, a brawler, a Tanky guy, and the EWAR boat. I wish it was still "Minmatar are kings of kiting, Gallente #1 brawlers, etc..." But sadly, it isn't like that anymore. There is little distinction between what each race can do.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#9 - 2013-11-26 05:01:06 UTC
Amarr: Call all your friends, bring Falcon.

Caldari: Call all your friends, bring Falcon.

Gallente: Call all your friends, bring Falcon.

Minmatar: Call all your friends, bring Falcon.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2013-11-26 07:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Alright... get ready for a wall of text here. I'll do my best to lay out how combat styles and racial ships work out.

(note: I'll be speaking in generalities and gross simplifications as the details of certain ships, fits, and tactics are walls of text in their own right.... exceptions apply to everything).



Gallente:
Strengths:
- generally fast acceleration and the second fastest top speed.
- favor close range "brawling" combat with some medium range "skirmishing" here and there.
- potentially some of the highest damage dealing ships in the game.
- favor active armor tanking (see: repairs incoming damage).
- fairly flexible with regards to tank style and preferred weapons. Many Gallente ships have numerous medium slots so you can fit a decent shield tank and more than a few ship have no bonus towards any particular turret type (meaning you can use weapons other than hybrids)
- drones are a weapon system that operate semi-autonomously from the main ship they are launched from... consuming no on board resources beyond storage space... which allows you to focus on other things during combat.

Weaknesses:
- blasters are the shortest range weapons in the game. Ships that employ range can easily orbit beyond their engagement envelope, leaving you helpless.
- drones require serious micro-management and can be easily killed by skilled opponents... leaving you without any means to fight.
- very dependent on capacitor power to function properly. Run out of power and you are a sitting duck.
- Gallente ships can potentially be very "fat"... not having the speed to close range quickly enough.


Minmatar:
Strengths:
- generally very high top speeds.
- favor medium to close range fighting (note: ignore "optimal" range and focus more on "falloff")
- can use weapons capable of high volley strikes that can potentially kill an enemy in one shot.
- VERY flexible when with regards to tanking styles and weapons. Many ships can be fit for shield or armor, damage or range, speed or brawling, drones or turrets or missiles, etc.
- excel in "skirmishing" tactics.

Weaknesses:
- autocannons (short range) can deal anemic damage if used improperly.
- long/medium range artillery cannons have terrible tracking relative to other long range weapon systems.
- due to their flexibility, Minmatar ships require more skillpoints than other racial ships to get the most out of.
- generally cannot field the beefiest tanks (exceptions apply).


Caldari:
Strengths:
- can potentially have some of the longest ranges in the game (see: sniper tactics).
- focus equally on missile and hybrid weaponry.
- possesses some of the strongest shield tanks in the game.
- arguably possesses the most potent Electronic Warfare in the game: ECM.
- missiles never miss anything within their range.
- ships that can perform certain tactics are often VERY good at them.

Weaknesses:
- possess somewhat limited point defense capabilities.
- possesses some of the slowest ships in the game.
- missiles operate on mechanics rather unique unto themselves. They may never miss... but the damage applied can be near non-existent against opponents they are not specifically designed for.
- Caldari ships are rather inflexible beyond what they are designed to do.


Amarr:
Strengths:
- can field some of the beefiest armor tanks in the game (if not THE beefiest tanks in the game).
- lasers can switch ammo almost instantly... allowing you to quickly change range and apply damage accordingly.
- focus primarily on laser weaponry and drones with room for weapons of your choice.
- possess some of the best "fleet" style ships in the game and can hold their own in "brawling" situations.
- can employ capacitor (see: energy) warfare in addition to turret disruption... making them able to hamper or virtually shut down many common ships.

Weaknesses:
- some of the slowest ships in the game.
- somewhat inflexible with regards to tanking style (armor only).
- many ships (usually laser based) are extremely dependent on capacitor power to function. Run out of energy and you are as good as useless.
- can also use drones (with all their strengths and weaknesses), but not to the degree that the Gallente can.



Tactics:

There are a plethora of tactics in EVE. But most of them can be boiled down to three categories...

Brawling: the most simple form of combat. Basically you get in someone's face and either try to deal as much damage as possible or outlast their ability to absorb damage. This form of combat requires you to "commit" to an engagement which is not a good thing if your opponent has backup on the way. Large tank (buffer or active) and DPS numbers rule here.

Sniping: come in at long range and try to kill your target before he/she can escape. Ships that employ this style often have little to no tank, preferring to deal as much damage as possible and get out before anything can intercept them. Sadly... you often cannot force anyone to sit around while you pound away at them without help (to pin down the target).

Skirmishing: there are two ways to do this... 1) stay outside of your targets engagement envelope while keeping him/her in yours... this often requires speed and some manual piloting to pull off. 2) Get in close and try to "out track" a target's weapons by being as small and fast as possible.
Either way... speed is the name of the game.


Keep in mind that ALL racial ships can perform all of these tactics with varying degrees of effectiveness. The trick is to figure out which configuration works best for YOU!


And with others you can gain even MORE effectiveness by having different people perform some of the above and/or employ various "support" mechanics in the form of Electronic Warfare, Logistics Support (see: healing), and Command Bonuses (see: gang/fleet buffs).


Hopefully this helps.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2013-11-26 07:53:14 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Your idea would have been spot on a few expansions ago, but since then CCP has homogenized the 4 races, so they can each have a ship that performs a certain role, albeit some better than others. Each race has a kiter, a brawler, a Tanky guy, and the EWAR boat. I wish it was still "Minmatar are kings of kiting, Gallente #1 brawlers, etc..." But sadly, it isn't like that anymore. There is little distinction between what each race can do.


While the homogenization is a fact, and the stuff in OP is horribly dated and hence just plain wrong, I absolutely love the variation rebalancing has brought into the meta.

It's no longer about rock, paper, scissors and suckerpunch between the four races, but rock, paper, scissors, shovel, towel, shoe, horse, door, lamp, mug, pen, roundhouse kick, giraffe, ufo, headset, tank, scalpel, space blanket, van damme, mushroom, oak, yoga pants, dildo, 9/11 and chucknorris.

.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-11-26 09:42:56 UTC
Roime wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Your idea would have been spot on a few expansions ago, but since then CCP has homogenized the 4 races, so they can each have a ship that performs a certain role, albeit some better than others. Each race has a kiter, a brawler, a Tanky guy, and the EWAR boat. I wish it was still "Minmatar are kings of kiting, Gallente #1 brawlers, etc..." But sadly, it isn't like that anymore. There is little distinction between what each race can do.


While the homogenization is a fact, and the stuff in OP is horribly dated and hence just plain wrong, I absolutely love the variation rebalancing has brought into the meta.

It's no longer about rock, paper, scissors and suckerpunch between the four races, but rock, paper, scissors, shovel, towel, shoe, horse, door, lamp, mug, pen, roundhouse kick, giraffe, ufo, headset, tank, scalpel, space blanket, van damme, mushroom, oak, yoga pants, dildo, 9/11 and chucknorris.




in fact nope.. more then ever this are oversimplified. With texception of the apex of nano age, I dont remember atime where so few ships were relevant in small scale PVP (the scenario depicted by the OP)

Battleships were made even weaker than what they were, BC are very rarely seen now, command ships are not worth the training time.


Most combat returned to Hacs, T3, faction cruiser and logistics in high sec at least.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Fergus Runkle
Truth and Reconciliation Council
#13 - 2013-11-26 10:52:42 UTC
Combat Tactics of the various Races:

The Amarr say: "God says I'm better than you, so just stop fighting back"

The Caldari say: "I don't need a fast ship, I can hit you from over here"

The Gallente say: "Just you wait 'til I get in range"

The Minmatar say: "Hold on, as soon as I find something heavy I'll hit you with it"
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2013-11-26 11:17:09 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

in fact nope.. more then ever this are oversimplified. With texception of the apex of nano age, I dont remember atime where so few ships were relevant in small scale PVP (the scenario depicted by the OP)

Battleships were made even weaker than what they were, BC are very rarely seen now, command ships are not worth the training time.


Most combat returned to Hacs, T3, faction cruiser and logistics in high sec at least.


tbh sounds like you have no clue at all about what happens in small gang meta right now :/

People fly ships from every race, across different classes and models. To further complicate the meta, most ships have 2-3 very different "standard fitting styles" with viable variations.

I do agree that BCs and BS are very niche these days, but the problems with BS as class was already clear to everyone except CCP during their rebalancing, and their issues were not fixed. However, this discussion was about racial features, which have changed, and imho for the better.

Hisec is not and has never been relevant in any PVP discussion.

.

Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-11-26 12:04:23 UTC
Meh. This hasn't helped much.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2013-11-26 12:39:18 UTC
Just think that every ship has a fighting style or two and it should help :)

.