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[Smart]Bombs should follow the r^2 law
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Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#1 - 2013-11-26 12:12:54 UTC
When an explosion detonates it has a finite amount of energy in each direction, divided in some way across the surface of the shockwave. If we assume the explosion is spherical and force is distributed evenly then the explosive force for any given square meter of bubble would be:
F=E * 4 * pi / r^2

F is the force per square meter
E is the total explosive force
r is the distance from the center point

So, I feel that the damage of smartbombs should increase significantly, but the falloff for that damage will be intense. Make smartbombs actually interesting for once.
Highfield
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2013-11-26 12:24:52 UTC
Because a smartbomb range is so huge that it's too strong now? Shocked

This proposal holds some merit, although it should come with a range bonus increase too, ie. dps at current TQ ranges stays equal but gets more closer to the ship and less further away?

I expect this would fry the nodes tho when used in bigger fights.
Randy Wray
Warcrows
#3 - 2013-11-26 12:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Randy Wray
Would be really good if it could be implemented.

If smartbombs are gonna become a "viable counter" to interceptors the way Fozzie talked about it then a range/damage boost is necessary. In the current state of the game I don't know what universe you live in if you think smartbombs are a counter to interceptors.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

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Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#4 - 2013-11-26 12:29:55 UTC
Then you have to do something with MJD warp-core stabbed Smartbombing BS. Because you wont be able to scram them from far enough to not get into smartbomb radius (due to your proposed falloff mechanic).

Also in large battles increase in effective range of bombs and smartbombs will mean increase in server load (server will have to calculate damage on each ship in up to infinity range).

Then there is another problem: if r -> 0 then F -> infinity.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#5 - 2013-11-26 12:50:02 UTC
Well, if you want to get into implementation details it's really easy to pre-calculate a rainbow table for the falloff.

However, forcing scrammers into smartbomb range would be an effective counter to interceptors. It would not be nearly full damage. Double the distant, quarter the damage, after all.
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#6 - 2013-11-26 14:31:24 UTC
so basically you want to make it so battleships are immune to being pointed?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-11-26 14:51:38 UTC
That coudl have a much better effect on bomber bombs.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#8 - 2013-11-26 15:46:04 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
so basically you want to make it so battleships are immune to being pointed?


Actually, that sounds like a much better idea. Plz make all BS hulls ewar immune.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#9 - 2013-11-26 15:54:25 UTC
Highfield wrote:
Because a smartbomb range is so huge that it's too strong now? Shocked


i think you think in the wrong direction.
this more realistic mechanic could allow increased range/dmg on smartbombs without making em "OP by Design"

so that it might actually lead to diverse and interesting new gameplay
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#10 - 2013-11-26 16:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Travasty Space
Gawain Edmond wrote:
so basically you want to make it so battleships are immune to being pointed?


As it stands right now smartbombs can do up to 60 dps of their choice damage(officer) with most BS using meta or T2 giving maybe 35 DPS. so even if you doubled the range w/o the above changes the average ceptor should be able to hold a BS with a scram for between 3 minutes and forever and a point, well. Add the above changes in and that only goes up, not really op bro.
Emma Yobibit
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-11-26 17:00:15 UTC
They are called "smart bomb" for a reason, you though it was simply a large granade strapped onto your ship? think again.
Some magical... mmm... i mean futuristic force field is re-directing an explosion inside the radius of XY km, to make it more damaging of course, its like turning the 9 km radius around your ship into a oven for drones and small ships.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-11-26 17:40:15 UTC
Travasty Space wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
so basically you want to make it so battleships are immune to being pointed?


As it stands right now smartbombs can do up to 60 dps of their choice damage(officer) with most BS using meta or T2 giving maybe 35 DPS. so even if you doubled the range w/o the above changes the average ceptor should be able to hold a BS with a scram for between 3 minutes and forever and a point, well. Add the above changes in and that only goes up, not really op bro.

Thinking in dps with smartbombs makes no sense.

No interceptor survives two explosions of a fully fited disco ship.

That's around 15 seconds.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#13 - 2013-11-26 19:11:36 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
That's around 15 seconds.

7.5 seconds. because 1st wave happens instantly and 2nd in 7.5 sec. @15 sec mark it'll be time for 3rd wave of explosions.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#14 - 2013-11-26 20:56:32 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
When an explosion detonates it has a finite amount of energy in each direction, divided in some way across the surface of the shockwave. If we assume the explosion is spherical and force is distributed evenly then the explosive force for any given square meter of bubble would be:
F=E * 4 * pi / r^2

F is the force per square meter
E is the total explosive force
r is the distance from the center point

So, I feel that the damage of smartbombs should increase significantly, but the falloff for that damage will be intense. Make smartbombs actually interesting for once.


i would think its not applyable, 1 example is space so there is no resistance lowering the damage over time. and example 2 could be were actually in "liquid space" so the effective explosive area of 15km or w/e is actually the compressed explosive area

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#15 - 2013-11-26 21:45:49 UTC
I think this thread would be better served if contemplating on the matter while listening to this track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Zcchxjsw29g

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#16 - 2013-11-27 00:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Stallman
To put things in perspective for the kind of falloff this would entail, if a smartbomb did 1000 damage at 1 km it would hit out to 44 km, but anything past 3km would be for 100 or less.

With this mechanics change, smartbombs are really only effective very close in, or in large numbers against weak craft. At the 1000 damage point, an interceptor at 10km would be getting 10 per hit.

As far as server hits are concerned, just have the distance round up to the nearest km. This is incredibly simple, trunc(r + 0.5), then just rainbow table the damage at each increment plus modifiers.
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#17 - 2013-11-27 06:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizvig
How dare you suggest this when big "explosion radius" (missile) means worse today?

Exp radius is also lolwut.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#18 - 2013-11-27 07:31:40 UTC
I've always assumed missile explosion radius was an abstraction of some sort and never allowed myself to think about it further. Please don't challenge my delusions.
Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-11-27 11:48:04 UTC
so let me get this straight.

you want smartbombs deal less damege the farther the victim is from the smartbombing ship?




HAH.

Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase

Felicity Love >... was thinking "moar popcorn"... but now, seeing the truly awesome contribution this thread is going to make to the Greater Glory Of EVE.... imagonnamakkadapizza....
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#20 - 2013-11-27 18:20:05 UTC
Interesting opinion you have there. Would you like to expound upon your reasons for your amusement?