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We expect CSM members who lack integrity to be removed.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#221 - 2013-11-26 09:28:01 UTC
What ego? How do you determine that from his statements?

"Stupid people's opinions matter less'? Or was it "if they pollute a discussion with their stupidity, the smart people should be allowed to make fun of them"?

Quote:
Not all ideas and opinions are equal or deserving of equal respect.


Is pretty much the absolute truth.

Sorry to tell you this, but your after school tv shows lied to you. Everyone doesn't count, not everyone's voice is equal, and other people are allowed to make fun of you for saying stupid things.

Or, Joseph, is it preferable to you to have someone come in and **** up your discussions, and spout ignorance and idiocy all over the place?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Josef Djugashvilis
#222 - 2013-11-26 09:38:26 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
What ego? How do you determine that from his statements?

"Stupid people's opinions matter less'? Or was it "if they pollute a discussion with their stupidity, the smart people should be allowed to make fun of them"?

Quote:
Not all ideas and opinions are equal or deserving of equal respect.


Is pretty much the absolute truth.

Sorry to tell you this, but your after school tv shows lied to you. Everyone doesn't count, not everyone's voice is equal, and other people are allowed to make fun of you for saying stupid things.

Or, Joseph, is it preferable to you to have someone come in and **** up your discussions, and spout ignorance and idiocy all over the place?


Good manners cost nothing.

One can strongly disagree with a point of view and still treat that person with respect.


This is not a signature.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#223 - 2013-11-26 09:46:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

The ego is strong in this one.


Yes, agreed. However in the discussions, I ruthlessly apply some terribly unfair techniques: I use verifiable facts, I look at the arguments other people have made and check them for weaknesses, and if it's on a subject beyond my understanding (quantum superconductivity, how does it works??? wat is best solo T1 frigate? etc.), I pipe down.

EDIT: Also, when I do **** up and get something wrong, I don't run off crying to ISD to make the bad man go away

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#224 - 2013-11-26 09:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
CCP Dolan wrote:
Members of the CSM are held to the EULA, TOS, and forum rules just like any other player. Members of the CSM are encouraged to set an example for other players, but they are by no means required to do so. Additionally, while I like to to think that I could conceive of what an "exemplary poster" would look like, I am not willing to force such a conception on others outside of the basic forum rules.

So why was so much time wasted on the CSM White Paper if it is just there to be ignored?
CSM White Paper wrote:
CSM REPRESENTATIVE CONDUCT
Any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the EULA or TOS by a CSM Representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. There are no exceptions, regardless of the infraction. Representatives are not only expected to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.

Emphasis Mine

This is why I will never vote for the CSM again. They are pointless and irrelevant, they are not the voice of the players, what did we get during the SOMER 'Redacted' scandal? Silence then a statement saying that because they got away with it for so long and they have stopped and that should be fine. Even though Somer is a business and is still in breach of the EULA.

Now we learn the White Paper was just a huge waste of time. I cannot say I was surprised they did not have an 'Abstain' button in the last election, they wouldn't want the number of people who don't give a crap to get out and even then they only got 14% of the population to vote in a game where multiple accounts are the norm.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#225 - 2013-11-26 09:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Good manners cost nothing. One can strongly disagree with a point of view and still treat that person with respect.


So, because manners are free, they should be the law?

For what? So the stupid don't have to have their feelings hurt by being confronted with their stupidity?

That's the thing, too. Stupidity isn't a point of view. It's just being wrong. If you coddle it like you seem to suggest, they'll never stop being wrong. What's worse, they'll inflict it on those around them.

In particular on forums, wherein it is tantamount to a public service to facecheck people saying stupid things, such actions should not be punished.

[edit: @Frying Doom. You were specifically contradicted, and the piece you keep quoting was referred to mean in game. Not forums. Drop the matter, you lost.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2013-11-26 09:48:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

The ego is strong in this one.


Yes, agreed. However in the discussions, I ruthlessly apply some terribly unfair techniques: I use verifiable facts, I look at the arguments other people have made and check them for weaknesses, and if it's on a subject beyond my understanding (quantum superconductivity, how does it works??? wat is best solo T1 frigate? etc.), I pipe down.
Hahahahaha, moron has no clue about quantum superconductivity !


(i just had to ... xD)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#227 - 2013-11-26 09:49:35 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
What ego? How do you determine that from his statements?

"Stupid people's opinions matter less'? Or was it "if they pollute a discussion with their stupidity, the smart people should be allowed to make fun of them"?

Quote:
Not all ideas and opinions are equal or deserving of equal respect.


Is pretty much the absolute truth.

Sorry to tell you this, but your after school tv shows lied to you. Everyone doesn't count, not everyone's voice is equal, and other people are allowed to make fun of you for saying stupid things.

Or, Joseph, is it preferable to you to have someone come in and **** up your discussions, and spout ignorance and idiocy all over the place?


Good manners cost nothing.

One can strongly disagree with a point of view and still treat that person with respect.


One can, but the sad fact is that people with bad opinions are, as a general class, sadly unable to distinguish between being told that they have a bad opinion and that they are a bad person.

Also, patience is a finite quantity.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#228 - 2013-11-26 09:50:45 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
Members of the CSM are held to the EULA, TOS, and forum rules just like any other player. Members of the CSM are encouraged to set an example for other players, but they are by no means required to do so. Additionally, while I like to to think that I could conceive of what an "exemplary poster" would look like, I am not willing to force such a conception on others outside of the basic forum rules.

So why was so much time wasted on the CSM White Paper if it is just there to be ignored?
CSM White Paper wrote:
CSM REPRESENTATIVE CONDUCT
Any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the EULA or TOS by a CSM Representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. There are no exceptions, regardless of the infraction. Representatives are not only expected to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.

Emphasis Mine

This is why I will never vote for the CSM again. They are pointless and irrelevant, they are not the voice of the players, what did we get during the SOMER 'Redacted' scandal? Silence then a statement saying that because they got away with it for so long and they have stopped and that should be fine. Even though Somer is a business and is still in breach of the EULA.

Now we learn the White Paper was just a huge waste of time. I cannot say I was surprised they did not have an 'Abstain' button in the last election, they wouldn't want the number of people who don't give a crap to get out and even then they only got 14% of the population to vote in a game where multiple accounts are the norm.


I'm sure that we can rely on this promise as absolutely as your promise to stay out of CSM politics after the CSM 7 election.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lady Areola Fappington
#229 - 2013-11-26 09:51:26 UTC
You know, I don't know bout you guys, but I'd want someone around willing to say "You're dumb. This is why you're dumb. Here is how to avoid being dumb in the future".

Beats the hell out of some ass-patting that, while making me feel good, leaves me wallowing in my ignorance.


Guess my parents made sure I got enough Vitamin "HTFU" as a child.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2013-11-26 09:54:54 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
You know, I don't know bout you guys, but I'd want someone around willing to say "You're dumb. This is why you're dumb. Here is how to avoid being dumb in the future".

Beats the hell out of some ass-patting that, while making me feel good, leaves me wallowing in my ignorance.


Guess my parents made sure I got enough Vitamin "HTFU" as a child.
*pats your ass*

hm ... nice.


*squeezes*


oh yeah !



Done eating breakfast,
back to your regular scheduled bullshit.
Frying Doom
#231 - 2013-11-26 09:55:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


I'm sure that we can rely on this promise as absolutely as your promise to stay out of CSM politics after the CSM 7 election.

I will not stay out of politics but I will not vote.

CSM 7 was a PR front for CCP but hell they were nothing compared to you people in the CSM8s cheerleader squad.

I noticed that now there is nothing important to post about you lot have magically appeared on the forums again.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#232 - 2013-11-26 09:55:37 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
You know, I don't know bout you guys, but I'd want someone around willing to say "You're dumb. This is why you're dumb. Here is how to avoid being dumb in the future".

Beats the hell out of some ass-patting that, while making me feel good, leaves me wallowing in my ignorance.


Guess my parents made sure I got enough Vitamin "HTFU" as a child.


My parents put it similarly.

"If you're wrong and you are corrected, be happy, because now you aren't wrong anymore."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#233 - 2013-11-26 10:00:48 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

I will not stay out of politics but I will not vote.



That's called whining.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Frying Doom
#234 - 2013-11-26 10:06:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

I will not stay out of politics but I will not vote.



That's called whining.

Thats like saying you would vote for someone like the former leader of Iraq, there was a voting system, there which allowed you to vote in a Turd too.

In this case you are just voting for people to act as a PR meat shield for CCP, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes sure they post a complaint about CCP publicly right before they spend day after day defending CCP.

The CSM is a joke, the White Paper CSM7 spent so long on is apparently only good for toilet paper.

The CSM just needs to go, it does not represent the players, it just represents CCP and spends its time making excuses for CCPs actions.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#235 - 2013-11-26 10:21:06 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

I will not stay out of politics but I will not vote.



That's called whining.

Thats like saying you would vote for someone like the former leader of Iraq, there was a voting system, there which allowed you to vote in a Turd too.

In this case you are just voting for people to act as a PR meat shield for CCP, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes sure they post a complaint about CCP publicly right before they spend day after day defending CCP.

The CSM is a joke, the White Paper CSM7 spent so long on is apparently only good for toilet paper.

The CSM just needs to go, it does not represent the players, it just represents CCP and spends its time making excuses for CCPs actions.



They cannot disagree with CCP on one thing while agreeing with them on another?

They must all speak with a unified voice at all times?

The CSM represents the players in as much as any body can represent a group. This year is one of the more diverse CSMs.

With any representative group in a diverse game such as Eve, no one person can represent all the groups, and players (and the CSM are players too) have their preferences and biases.


The view seems to be among some players that as soon as people start being on the CSM they suddenly turn into corporate shills...now, as with politicians, this may be the case, but, it is more likely (as with politics), that the CSM members find they cannot steamroll ideas through, and that compromise is an actual thing.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#236 - 2013-11-26 11:05:23 UTC
Baaldor wrote:

Ginger was sober, Mittens was hammered.



Again, this somehow makes it OK? I'll point out again that Ginger had 0 chance of success. Mittens plan might have actually worked. Saying 'Oh, I was drunk!' is no excuse. If I got hammered, got in my car, and ran someone over, do you think the judge is gonna say 'That's Ok, you were drunk. we understand"?


There have been dozens of Idiots over the years like GM, all of whom got permabanned, AFAIK, the only one who posed a serious risk to the life of the potential victim was Mittani, and, to me this is bizarre, he's also the only one to get a slap on the wrist.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#237 - 2013-11-26 11:30:49 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

Again, this somehow makes it OK?

No-one has ever said that it was ok.
Also there's a difference between excuse and explanation.…
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#238 - 2013-11-26 11:36:00 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

Ginger was sober, Mittens was hammered.



Again, this somehow makes it OK? I'll point out again that Ginger had 0 chance of success. Mittens plan might have actually worked. Saying 'Oh, I was drunk!' is no excuse. If I got hammered, got in my car, and ran someone over, do you think the judge is gonna say 'That's Ok, you were drunk. we understand"?


There have been dozens of Idiots over the years like GM, all of whom got permabanned, AFAIK, the only one who posed a serious risk to the life of the potential victim was Mittani, and, to me this is bizarre, he's also the only one to get a slap on the wrist.


Excuse my interrupting, but this thread is for complaining about me, not mittens. Please stay on topic.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#239 - 2013-11-26 11:47:02 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

Ginger was sober, Mittens was hammered.



Again, this somehow makes it OK? I'll point out again that Ginger had 0 chance of success. Mittens plan might have actually worked. Saying 'Oh, I was drunk!' is no excuse. If I got hammered, got in my car, and ran someone over, do you think the judge is gonna say 'That's Ok, you were drunk. we understand"?


So now words spoken while drunk have the same legal implications of drink driving and manslaughter... ok!



Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

There have been dozens of Idiots over the years like GM, all of whom got permabanned, AFAIK, the only one who posed a serious risk to the life of the potential victim was Mittani, and, to me this is bizarre, he's also the only one to get a slap on the wrist.


Shocked

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Lady Areola Fappington
#240 - 2013-11-26 11:57:26 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

There have been dozens of Idiots over the years like GM, all of whom got permabanned, AFAIK, the only one who posed a serious risk to the life of the potential victim was Mittani, and, to me this is bizarre, he's also the only one to get a slap on the wrist.



I think this is one of the sillier comments I've read in a long while. "Posed a serious risk to the life of the potential victim...what, was Mittens holding a pistol to the guys head?

Seriously, get some perspective.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide