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Something akin to a "heavy bomber" as a capital counter?
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General Jack Cosmo
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-11-24 12:28:42 UTC
Hay I have a great idea
lets re-purpose these ganking tier 3 bc's and give them a real purpose!
able to fit torp and citadel torp launchers with cloaks
5% to torp and citadel torps per race per level
20% to velocity and flight time per level

at-least they would be worth doing some decent with them, instead of just ganking high sec missioners :)

With lord Xanex by my side I can do anything (Atleast with a smile) !!!!
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-11-24 21:35:55 UTC
Thinking about this idea of smaller ships being able to take down caps but useless against support fleet. How about giving this new ship a very small scan resolution? This will make it effectively useless against smaller ships; by the time it locks it's been blown out of the sky, or they've escaped. Once the lock is on this "heavy" delivers a smack that will make rep chains pause for thought. Have several of these turn up and you'll wish you'd brought along the support fleet.

By having it wear single-target weapons it won't be able to crucify small BS fleets, even if it does get on a lock. Maybe have it wear big weapons and give it a HUGE bonus to the damage caused?

Just a thought.
Sigras
Conglomo
#23 - 2013-11-25 08:40:31 UTC
the problem with having ships that just deal a lot of DPS to cap ships is that we already have that, and apparently it isnt enough.

Think about the amount of ewar immune RR a fleet can field . . . the only thing thats relevant is the alpha strike damage you can field, or the amount of AOE you can do. Even neuting doesnt work once you get that many ships on the field with cap transfers.

How much DPS would these things have to do to make them worth while? 3000? 4000? again, the only way to fix capital blobbing is AOE
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-11-25 19:25:41 UTC
Sigras wrote:

How much DPS would these things have to do to make them worth while? 3000? 4000? again, the only way to fix capital blobbing is AOE

I was thinking of significantly more dmg than a few thousand dps. Against caps with their godzillions of hp that wouldn't be enough.

As these ships aren't built to withstand punishment their DPS is immaterial; alpha is all that matters. I'm talking about an alpha of immense size. If the support ships for the cap aren't capable of taking down a squadron of these ships before it has the lock on the cap then you can kiss it goodbye. RR is rendered useless in this situation, either stop the heavies from locking on or fail spectacularly.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#25 - 2013-11-25 19:31:05 UTC
We could wait for CCP's road-map and the plans for the capital rebalance in probably spring 2015.
Sigras
Conglomo
#26 - 2013-11-25 20:09:39 UTC
Elsbeth Taron wrote:
Sigras wrote:

How much DPS would these things have to do to make them worth while? 3000? 4000? again, the only way to fix capital blobbing is AOE

I was thinking of significantly more dmg than a few thousand dps. Against caps with their godzillions of hp that wouldn't be enough.

As these ships aren't built to withstand punishment their DPS is immaterial; alpha is all that matters. I'm talking about an alpha of immense size. If the support ships for the cap aren't capable of taking down a squadron of these ships before it has the lock on the cap then you can kiss it goodbye. RR is rendered useless in this situation, either stop the heavies from locking on or fail spectacularly.

All that does is reduce everyone to an alpha fleet; you need alpha to take out the supercaps, you need alpha to take out the bombers.

Wouldnt it be better to add in AOE that effected ships on a capital scale? Isnt AOE the counter to blobs in all other strategy games?
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-11-27 19:15:56 UTC
Sigras wrote:

All that does is reduce everyone to an alpha fleet; you need alpha to take out the supercaps, you need alpha to take out the bombers.

Wouldnt it be better to add in AOE that effected ships on a capital scale? Isnt AOE the counter to blobs in all other strategy games?

You'll need to explain that one. Why would the support fleet for the cap need high alpha against ships with low ehp and slow locking speed?
Sigras
Conglomo
#28 - 2013-12-07 01:16:04 UTC
Because of massive amounts of RR?
Thirtythousand
#29 - 2013-12-07 02:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Thirtythousand
Turret dreads are still devastating to Mon moving sub caps. Webbed and painted too. Why specifically the phoenix isn't allowed to do ok damage to sub caps? Carriers can field drones that are deadly to sub caps... The "not strong against sub caps" needs to apply to the ship size, not just missiles.

A tanked variant of bomber ala ww2 flying fortresses would be great. Good tank, undersized guns (like a bs with small turrets bonus) and 2 cap launchers/turrets or heavy bomb launcher. I would fly one.

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