Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A single data point (and infinite data points actually) cant prove that for all X, Y is true.

A single data point is however enough disprove that for no X, Y is true.


That said, RLMs are awful, and I dont know anyone who actually uses them (ie, not you) who plans on continuing to use them except one person who likes a pair of them on his stabbers.

Their use case on missile ships is basically "use these if you can trick a t1 frigate into 1v1ing your cruiser/hac"

Gypsio, your last post that you used them in 0.0, you talked about a significant gang made up of many other ships in support of yours. This is where a 20% dps nerf and a 40 second reload, don't really matter as much.

But imagine a fight where all your ships stop firing for 40 seconds, and did 20% less DPS than they did the week before?

For PVE, solo and small gangs, where fitting the right missiles, can make or break a fight, its a big deal. For bigger gangs with mixed ships, of course the effects of these changes will be diminished.

Oh I agree absolutely. The change is really tough on soloers, but there's more to Eve than soloing. The burst damage is quite well suited to a range-flexible gang skirmisher. Having said all that, while I like the idea of the burst damage in principle, I still think 40 s is too long and too frustrating. About 30 s would be much better, even at the cost of less burst damage, although that would also make life less frustrating for the frigate being shot

I don't think anyone is saying they're awesome. I certainly haven't been, although analysis that doesn't fit into binary end-members may be confusing you.

Your idea about giving all weapons 40 s reloads isn't great. The mechanic is interesting because it's different to other weapons.

Exactly what Gypsio said.

I'd add that RLML now have a proper niche role as they were designed instead of the role of HML.

Triple nerf; less dps, ridiculous reload time, and more pg requirements... can anyone seriously say they were ever that much superior to other medium weapons systems? They already had a lot lower dps to account for their advantage against smaller targets, and it's nowhere near as powerful or flexible as drone boats. Before anyone says it there are very few situations where it makes sense to primary a Vexors drones except sentries if he uses them, 3-4 full flights of buffed drones would have more ehp than a cruiser, and he still has his turrets as well

Yes Light missiles are good at range and especially effective against small targets, but that's what they are for, this is their area of operation, it's pretty easy for a small fast frigate to disengage and get out of disruptor range if they want to, fact is the only time they would stay in the fight is if they are trying to tackle so the rest of their gang can catch up. On the other hand if a long range ship like RLML Caracal gets webbed and scrammed at a warp in by a blaster boat it's screwed, but nobody in a RLML Caracal should expect to be a match for short range turrets in their area of operation. Who says every fight starts at long range? Blaster ships have an enormous advantage at short range engagements, so why don't they need to be nerfed? Some players just want an i win all the time button and ccp Rise is giving it to them.

No offense Bouh, but your a Gallente role player from a faction war corp I don't think your opinions on this are entirely without bias

What do you not understand in "damage projection" and "tank" ? This Thorax is basically the reverse of a caldari missile ship and the Vexor is even worse, showcasing the mighty Ogre II.

In fact, if you have any consideration for these ships, you should cheer the new RLML as they are just that : a gank weapon. You only trade tank for reload. Instead of dying after 50 seconds, you only have to reload. Consider too that the mentionned dps is absolutely not even close to the dps these blaster ships will do to frigates, and I don't even talk about damage projection.

The vexor either have railguns or blasters, not both. They both have HUGE weaknesses, like tracking for the first which make it unable to hit anything in scram range and range for the second which make it unable to hit anything outside scramrange.

Also, they both have the ehp of a tanky AF, and the Vexor is even slower than an ABC...

In fact, a HAML Caracal could kill these two cruisers. In an hypothetical 1v1, Vexor would be a no match and Thorax would depend on how the fight start. In any other case a HAML Caracal would be better because of more ehp and (a lot lot lot) more damage projection.

All in all it's easy to underline all the drawbacks of a weapon system while hiding all of its strengths and doing the reverse with an other one.


That's basically the main problem with old RLML : they were too good at too many things. They anihilated frigates and they were decently balanced against cruisers. That was too much.

You are kidding me if you think a vexor with blasters and medium drones can't hit a dual webbed and scrammed shield tanked MWD caracal. It has a sig radius of a fircken battleship lol. Even if it has railguns it will still melt a a caracal and most other t1 cruisers in close range. because buffed drones.

At disruptor range(within 12-18km) it would be an interesting fight with the old RLML set up. Turrets are just a secondary weapon on the Vexor, but even Rails can do about ~140 dps and thats without any damage mods, also the huge sig radius of the caracal ensures a lot of that will be applied... be honest they might struggle against small fast targets, but in a cruiser fight they will do just fine at that range. Then the drones, with medium drones and 2 drone dmg mods the vexor will be getting ~350dps just from those, add that to the 140 from the turrets and you have a potential of 500 dps. Even with small drones the total dps is still over 350! The old Caracal would have a better tank but the Vexor has at least double the dps with drones, so the Caracal pilot would have to kill all the drones + and the Vexor itself or the fight can only go one way. Question is would the Caracal be able to kill 4 or 5 full flights of buffed drones, and the Vexor itself while taking 4-500 dps? I can't say for sure, but I really don't think it would; the combined ehp on the drones alone would probably be well over 20k EHP with a durability rig, not even counting all the wasted shots, and there's still the Vexor it'self to deal with.

If at any time in all this the Caracal get's too close and gets webbed then he's humped. So yeah I think it's pretty safe to say I'd rather be in the Vexor in either of those situations. The sickening thing is the Vexor is at least as effective against frigs as the old RLML Caracal, using light drones it can kill any frigate out to 60km, so how is RLML Caracal OP? Vexor is better in just about every situation I can think of.

I see what your getting at, but that would only make a very slight difference, and it won't fix the unnecessary dps nerf, and you'll still have the insane 40 second clock of death to contend with. Why not just put RLML back exactly the way it was before, or nerf every other medium weapon system to bring them all into line with paltry missile DPS... especially drones.

Well you could change it to 4% per level that would bring the nerf of 20% sustained dps to its former level and at the same time you would have the option of splitting missiles in to groups or firing them in a burst mode.

the light missile launcher could be getting a longer rof to compensate for the increased alpha