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Alternative to Nightmare
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Arcilla
#1 - 2013-11-25 14:33:39 UTC
I'm looking for a replacement for my PvE Nightmare. The Nightmare is a fantastic ship which suits my playstyle very well. Problem is, it looks absolutely horrible. I hate actually flying it, and feel embarrassed every time I undock.

So I'm looking for an alternative ship with a similar feel, meaning long range weaponry (but no missiles, mixed weaponry or reliance on drones for DPS) and shield tank.

My current top contender is a Vindicator, so I've included a basic test setup for reference:

[Vindicator, Rail fit]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Signal Amplifier II
Co-Processor II

Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
100MN Afterburner II

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

A very tight fitting that doesn't allow as large tank, has much worse tracking than the Nightmare, but is faster and does comparable DPS.

So my question is - is there any other ship/fit that would serve as a better replacement? I'd gladly shield tank a Napoc, arty fit a Mach - or even run a Vindi without web ;) - if that does the job better.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-11-25 16:24:03 UTC
Arcilla wrote:
I'm looking for a replacement for my PvE Nightmare. The Nightmare is a fantastic ship which suits my playstyle very well. Problem is, it looks absolutely horrible. I hate actually flying it, and feel embarrassed every time I undock.

WHAT? Shocked
I'll gladly add a third "horrible-looking" Mare to my hangars if you offering?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3 - 2013-11-25 16:24:10 UTC
You could shield tank a Paladin.

Oh god.
Arcilla
#4 - 2013-11-25 16:26:04 UTC
So I came across the post-Rubicon Paladin thread and someone mentioned a shield tanked Paladin. Despite some scepticism I rolled one up in EFT and it looks like, although inferior to an armour tanked one, the shield Paladin actually mimics the Nightmare pretty well. And the Bastion mod and tractors are just gravy on top.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5 - 2013-11-25 16:30:50 UTC
putting rails on a vindi is very much like putting a square peg in a round hole, as evidenced by what you had to do to that fit.

If you want rails, use a kronos, a hyperion, or a navy megathron and armor tank them.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#6 - 2013-11-25 16:30:52 UTC
Yeah, it looks pretty decent. Why don't you want armour?

Oh god.
Arcilla
#7 - 2013-11-25 16:31:43 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
You could shield tank a Paladin.


Heh, beat me by two minutes. Yeah, this looks like a pretty strong fit, despite not utilizing the armour rep bonus.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2013-11-25 16:32:32 UTC
or a shield tanked navy domi with rails. That works pretty good.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-11-25 16:42:34 UTC
dislike the looks of a nightmare?! seriously? must be a troll.

but.. well.. eh.. shield navy domi is pretty darn good too
Arcilla
#10 - 2013-11-25 16:42:48 UTC
The reason I don't want to armour tank is the same reason I don't want to use my Nightmare because I don't like its graphics: flavour. The trekkie in me wants to divert all power to the shields, and I inherently dislike the concept of active armour tanking.
Arcilla
#11 - 2013-11-25 16:54:44 UTC
Navy Domi is a very solid ship - arguably stronger than a rail vindi, and probably a lot cheaper - but as stated in my original post: no reliance on drones for DPS.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#12 - 2013-11-25 17:02:05 UTC
Arcilla wrote:
Navy Domi is a very solid ship - arguably stronger than a rail vindi, and probably a lot cheaper - but as stated in my original post: no reliance on drones for DPS.


Pretty sure putting a sig amp and a coproc on a vindi is uglier than anything else you've claimed to dislike. with 50km base lock range and a web bonus, it may as well have said "BLASTERS ONLY" in the flavor text.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Mra Rednu
Vanishing Point.
#13 - 2013-11-25 17:41:45 UTC
Arcilla wrote:
So my question is - is there any other ship/fit that would serve as a better replacement? I'd gladly shield tank a Napoc, arty fit a Mach - or even run a Vindi without web ;) - if that does the job better.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


No there is no ship which would be better, also stop doing horrible things to good ships.
Arcilla
#14 - 2013-11-25 17:45:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcilla
Batelle wrote:
Pretty sure putting a sig amp and a coproc on a vindi is uglier than anything else you've claimed to dislike. with 50km base lock range and a web bonus, it may as well have said "BLASTERS ONLY" in the flavor text.


I realize a blaster Vindi is much better than a rail one. But remember that the reason why I'm asking here is precisely because I'm not content with the Vindi fit, and I'm looking for suggestions as to what could do the job better.

Edit: by "job" I mean shield tanked, long range in this context, not max DPS.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#15 - 2013-11-25 22:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
This is what I fly since the summer for L4, used it in amarr, minmatar and gallente space, without any kind of issues. Didn't use my Paladin since. It does require a bit more work than a static tach ship but it is a lot of fun to fly and if you make use of the mobility and use clever positioning it beats the pala/nm for speed running in most L4s. It feels like a Zealot on crack. Smile

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, Amarr Victor]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Core A-Type Large Armor Repairer

Core A-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L

Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I


Garde II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Hobgoblin II x3

A small fraps footage that I did to show the handling:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/New_NAPOC_Smuggler_Interception.mkv

Edit. While I use it mostly close and personal to get max turret and sentry dps, it does have 91km optimal with scorch what gives you a massive engagement window and a lot of flexibility not only by speed but range to.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#16 - 2013-11-25 23:23:45 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Batelle wrote:
Arcilla wrote:
Navy Domi is a very solid ship - arguably stronger than a rail vindi, and probably a lot cheaper - but as stated in my original post: no reliance on drones for DPS.


Pretty sure putting a sig amp and a coproc on a vindi is uglier than anything else you've claimed to dislike. with 50km base lock range and a web bonus, it may as well have said "BLASTERS ONLY" in the flavor text.


A 90% web is actually one of the best things you can have for a rail ship if you do omni tank + every mission in the same fitting with it, because it fixes one of the main issues(zero dps at close) in a way where you end up with max rail + sentry dps at close(a bonus is that you never have to use light drones), what was one of the reasons the old Kronos actually was a ok ship across every NPC type, even with the low raw dps.

The major problem of the Vindicator is that awful capacitor, what makes it kind of meh with mwd and without any cap mods(compared to the old Kronos that performed pretty good in a setup like this) and the inability to project sentry dps up to 100km(again one of the things that made the old Kronos good). I'm currently playing a bit around with a Vindi looking for something that might be as useful as the old Kronos(not really satisfied with anything yet). Sad

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#17 - 2013-11-25 23:33:18 UTC
Yep Nightmare is ugly i agree, i tried flying it, switched to a Navy Geddon because of the looks Lol

Rail Vindi is not as bad as many think, it gets a good bit more dps than artillery Machariel, more tracking too, but it is slower, has more cap problems and lower tank. If you can deal with those, go for the rail VindiBig smile
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#18 - 2013-11-26 00:05:26 UTC
If you like lasers, use a Paladin, hybrids Kronos, proj Vargur and missiles Golem. Marauders are back on top of PvE now.
Garak n00biachi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-11-26 01:05:49 UTC
Resculpt and get rid of that red hair, youre making me look bad....
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#20 - 2013-11-26 02:15:55 UTC
what and who and huh?
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