Ships & Modules

They are both great and have advantages and disadvantages on paper that DO NOT translate directly to actual fighting. Having said that it really comes down to personal preference in what your playstyle is.

If you like to blitz and don't salvage then the Mach might be you cup of tea. If you like to kill all and have the salvaging and looting gone by the time you kill each pocket then a Marauder with a Mobile tracting unit is the way to go.

Either way it is so easy to kill red pluses there is no way to go wrong here people.

mach got paper tank, you cant fly it recklessly also it eats ammo too quickly if you are not near supply hub it can be annoying. Also, both mach and vargur is only godly figthing angels. when you fight other npcs you end up chasing them each time you want to maximize your dps

As a person who owns multiple machariels, for missions and incursions, if we look for PVE only:

Mach was the king...

2 bill Vargur now outperforms 4.5 bill Mach in missions.

You have better:
Tracking, and I mean way better.
Range, and I mean 25 km more falloff.
More room for ammo and less ammo consumption
Bastion = EWAR immunity... no jamms, no damps, no tracking disruption. Case closed.

Fit MWD to get in ranges.

You have worse:
DPS whole 50-100 less, but better applied and not gimped by ewar.

I was going to say seeing as I haven't run a level 4 in years surely there are still damps ecm tracking disruptors or whatever in missions?

If so the Vargur has to be better and thats only in missions a vargur could run incursions solo I bet

Yes, there is damping and tracking disruptions.

For example, Blockade LVL 4 against sansha, you can do solo mach but you will need to burn 80 km in one direction, then for new spawn 120 km back since you get so bad numbers on autocannons, i remember having 5 km range in total from 60 km normal. You could fit arty, but you will still have to burn. What I used to do is bring 2 machs and then use the one who isn't dead in water from all the disruption. In some missions your mach gets down to like 15 km locking range, again, burn for it, or use two machariels.

Now with vargur, oh look, they are dampening and disrupting me, now where did I put that bastion shortcut... ah there it is, here we go infidels...

For incursions, it can't solo them, but yes, they can tank it, but you would most definitely need more then one, at least 7-8 to make any decent profits.

And yes, lastly, did Amarr Epic arc with Vargur + mobile tractor unit + salvage drones and with Orca sweeping each room after Vargur leaves with another mobile tractor and salvage drones and ended up at 87,3 mill per hour, using only one ship to lay down dps... Last time I did it with 2 machariels and noctis I was getting somewhere around 50-60 mill per hour (due all the ewar). In 3 months I will let you know how 2 Vargurs + salvage Orca works out.


And most def woudn't be able to solo, two of them MAYBE, but you won't be able to put enough dps, tank, cap and webs to kill all the stuff.

confirming that 13k shields, 13k armor, and 11k structure are a "paper tank."

The mach is good vs everything, and its called an "isk tank" not a "paper tank" because 95% of the time you don't even have to turn on your booster.



lol what. TE's going to 20% falloff isn't much of a reason to switch to armor. shield mach is still fast, super ganky. The slight loss in range isn't a big deal IMO.