Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You missed a lot. I'm not aware of any drake nerf. I like the new drake and would fly it any day. They didn't nerf the drake, they buffed things that aren't drakes. There's a difference.

Also, giving the Caracal a new distinct combat option without altering its curent capabilities in any way doesn't really count as a nerf.

Nerfing the Tengu is good. Don't quote no price on me, when a 600 mil ISK ship can take on 900 mil worth of tech 2 ships all by itself, it's just a little overpowered.

Finally, you must have very little faith in CCP to think they would nerf cruise missiles to balance torpedoes.

Heavy missile nerf = drake nerf

The new RLML does less dps and, requires more PG... if by distinct combat option you mean taking out solo frigs in a cruiser, that's not very distinct

Drakes use heavy missiles, heavy missiles got nerved in Retribution.
Cerberus HAC is now more effective than Tengus in PvP since Odyssey, but you still want a nerf.
Caracals used rapid light missiles, they nerfed RLMLs with Rubicon.

Torpedeos are seldom used since the cruise missile changes, and those that fail to learn from history tend to make the same mistakes - so yeah, I'm expecting a cruise missile nerf in range and damage.


Exactly, that's why everyone is out flying Drakes with RLMLs…

The HML and RLML nerfs have had the same net effect: players stopped using (and will stop using) the Drake and Caracals en masse. When the Tengus get nerfed (and it's almost certain they will), you'll simply see another mass migration from missile-based ships.

Hey CCP, I would say this more unbalanced than rebalanced. I cant even find a buy order in most regions for the Meta 4 rapid light now.
That being said lets go a step further and remove all the useless missile hard points on non bonused ships like the Dragoon, Arbitrator and Celistis since according to ISIS there is no need to train basic missile skills for those ships even at "Mastery". Split gun systems are bad and Nutes are useless in PVE. Nerfing the only fitable backup weapon system for those ships bacicaly killed those ships. Fireing RLML for 80 odd seconds in a mission only to have it take a 40 second break is pretty pointless. The delay in damage is enough of a balance with either firing missiles at already dead targets or stopping cycle and leaving the rat hanging on by a thread. If your team wanted to balance it? Maybe make the reload time extend if overheated and set it at 25 seconds to start. Was there some Reload skill like "HoneyCombing" that got cut from the patch? In closing "guess I should have trained projectiles."

Well if HEavy missiles nerf had not been that exagerated.

Instead of 20% damage nerf a 15% would have been enough and the now widely uncovered groudn between rapids and heavy missiles would not be so open.

One way for CCP to reduce these issues is be a bit more extreme on the t2 missiles. Make the rage oens do MORE damage, even if with even worse explosion size, make the precision ones do a bit less raw damage but reasonably more precise.

That woudl help cover the groudn where no missile system is useful.

Awesome!
Well I dont frequent low sec often but half the time i do i end up getting popped

This is a completely uninformed comment. HAM Caracal have the same ehp as any attack cruiser, and that is with web+scram, and about the same speed. HAM Caracal hit farther than any other close range attack cruiser but the Omen, and for more damage than most of them from 10km and beyond. And finaly, HAM Caracal, without any tackle, will apply more than 80% of its dps to a MWDing armor Thorax, 90% when shielded. No combat cruiser will tank more than 10% of HAM dps.

HAM have been buffed when HML have been nerfed. They are perfectly fine now.

Ahh, but but you're not supposed to use Thorax as an example, come on! Only slowest of cruisers are allowed to be discussed

Please stop and listen to yourself.

First off, you previously said the Drake wasn't nerfed. Hell yeah it was. It might have the same fitting options, but its base shield HP was nerfed by 10%, which when you consider the improvements skills bring, means an overall bigger HP nerf. Both its armor and hull also got nerfed by more than 15%. Its capacitor was nerfed by more than 10%.

It also lost a high utility slot.

Then along with dozens of ships that didn't merit it, it got a 5% reduction in resistances - which is significant. Then the missiles that most people used with them got nerfed badly.

Overall, in realistic buffer fits, it lost over 30,000 EHP.

That is before you get to the missiles it uses.

Hitting a MWD armor fit Thorax? Giving it a signature size of a small moon, and yet it still only does 80% of the damage?

90% when it has an even larger shield signature?

Try turning the MWD off and watch what happens to those lovely numbers compared to gunnery. You know, when those blasters and warp scram have you trapped and the Thorax has double propulsion modules, web, double tank and cap booster.

Against normal signature ships, with either no MWD on (Most folks don't have the cap to leave them just idly running), or an afterburner - then heavy and heavy assaults hit incredibly poorly. The only way to realistically get close to their potential DPS is to include a dedicated target painting ship in the gang and webs. Given the lack of mid slots after a tank, that isn't always doable on many Caldari ships - Caracal included. There is a reason people stopped using these ships and fits.

The reason people used RLML was because they actually hit ships doing the DPS they were capable of. The reason people stopped using the missiles you think are fine, is because they didn't hit ships for the DPS they were capable of. Which is why RLML increased in use. Not because they were overpowered, but because they worked compared to the alternatives.