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Dev blog: Ghastly Hotbed Of Spaceship Trauma - Ghost Sites in Rubicon

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#301 - 2013-11-18 21:36:52 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

After a while 2 options will become apparent, expensive ships with a big tank or cheapest fit exploration frigate, lose a few who cares.
NO ONE will be doing these in their normal fit ship.




I'm not sure what a "normal fit ship" is - I have dozens of fittings for different uses. With that said, as for the rest of your nonsense:

The sites, at least during the most recent iteration on Singularity, are actually quite survivable with standard PvP buffer fits - the only odd-man out is the analyzer, and since we're also getting mobile depots in this patch, I'll probably just carry around a depot and an analyzer in my cargo.

The highsec and lowsec hacking games are quite easy, so no ship bonus to analyzers is necessary. For null sec and WH, I'd imagine the stratios and T3s will be popular choices.

These are mixed combat/hacking content and if you bring a covops into one, you're stupid and deserve what you get (though I'm pretty sure I can make a covops that will survive at least the high sec sites). Of course, if you're willing to take that risk, you can - you should be able to get at least one can before the explosion goes off (left to my own devices, I never got less than two). With a cargo scanner, finding one with a blueprint, hacking it, looting, and bolting is ENTIRELY feasible.

They're not even remotely "unwinnable" - if anything, they are far too easy, as the tankability of the explosion nullifies the need to make a decision of when to bug out. You can simply plan on eating the explosion, and hack as many cans as the timer allows.

It's pretty obvious you didn't bother to experiment with the sites on Singularity at all.



Hey surrender monkey, it has been at least a day since You trolled one of my posts!
I was getting lonely.


Trolling?

Trolling is your completely nonsensical bullshit about a mechanic you've obviously never tested. The entire content of your post was unambiguously false.


Yup thats the surrender monkey we know.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#302 - 2013-11-18 21:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Yup thats the surrender monkey we know.



It's an actual fact that the sites are entirely survivable with mundane fits. It's an actual fact that you can retrieve loot from them and get out without dying.

I'm pretty sure stating these actual facts, in contradiction to your lies, misinformation, and hysterics, is not "trolling", but there's no shortage of infantile malcontents who think anyone who isn't whining along with them is a "troll".

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#303 - 2013-11-18 21:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Yup thats the surrender monkey we know.



So are you asserting that your post was something other than fictional whining by an infantile malcontent?

Shocked

Well yes, yes I do.
That is after all why I wrote it.
You are really not helping either yourself or the player base.
If you take an opposing position purely to be controversial or for attention, then you are responsible for the results.

CCP seem to believe that players love the luck element and twitch clicking.
Many players disagree, but for every "Poster " who claims the opposite purely to garner attention, It encourages them to reinforce their own opinions.
So:-
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#304 - 2013-11-18 21:55:15 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Seems to me Null sec and W-holers get the prime cuts again, this time it's the HG Implant BPC's as well as the best type of Mobile Depot BPC's.


Tell me about it!

It's almost like CCP thinks that players who leave CONCORD's apron strings should get better rewards, or something.

This is basically internet space racism.

But seriously, you might want to resign yourself to the fact that high sec is probably never going to get anything "better" than low/null/WH ever again.

That's the price you pay for CONCORD. If you could learn to accept this aspect of the design philosophy so the rest of us wouldn't have to suffer through your bewilderment every time high-sec gets an inferior version of a gameplay mechanic, that would be lovely.

It's SUPPOSED to be that way. You don't get to do triple backflips off the high dive if you're not going to leave the kiddy pool.

Quote:
With the Ghost Site NPC spawn timer being unknown as well as getting massive DPS to ships from exploding cans due to first fail of hacking game, I don't see how players can actually complete these sites solo.


A blindfolded glass of orange juice could hack the high sec sites, and those are the only ones you'll ever need to concern yourself with, so I don't really see how this is a problem for you. They're also trivially tankable with a buffer fit, which you would probably know if you spent half as much time testing as you do crying about how "unfair" everything is to high sec.

Wow, what a blowhard troll. The only one suffering from 'Internet Space Racism' is you. Instead of flapping your mouth and beating your EPEEN all the time maybe you should try some reading comprehension. Obviously you have no clue what I do or where I go in the game. I don't hide behind Concord and FYI - I frequently travel in low security space with various trips into W-hole and null security space. I didn't raise the 'Unfair to high sec' flag so stop trying to pin that on me. Just because you're safe and secure in the middle of a big blue doughnut doesn't mean you're entitled to easy rewards.

Anyway, it doesn't matter what security level of space I travel in, the distribution of those rewards is still unbalanced, plain and simple. The implants were originally proposed to be one level and be distributed throughout all security levels of space, IE, you have to travel everywhere to get a full set.

Course if you had pulled your head out and done some research, you would have known that. By the way, my reply was directed to CCP Dev's and I have every right to express my views about the Ghost Site Rewards, whether you like it or not.. Next time leave your troll attack and insults in GD sub-forum.


DMC

Yup he is well known for it Don't let him wind you up.
It doesn't matter what you write, he will attack you with his own preconceptions.
Most of us Ignore him or just ridicule him, he doesn't usually even realise. but much better not to feed the trolls and move on.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#305 - 2013-11-18 21:58:53 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Yup thats the surrender monkey we know.



So are you asserting that your post was something other than fictional whining by an infantile malcontent?

Shocked

Well yes, yes I do.
That is after all why I wrote it.
You are really not helping either yourself or the player base.
If you take an opposing position purely to be controversial or for attention, then you are responsible for the results.

CCP seem to believe that players love the luck element and twitch clicking.
Many players disagree, but for every "Poster " who claims the opposite purely to garner attention, It encourages them to reinforce their own opinions.
So:-
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.


Okay, let's break your nonsense down into bitesized pieces that you'll hopefully be able to handle.

You said:

Quote:
After a while 2 options will become apparent, expensive ships with a big tank or cheapest fit exploration frigate, lose a few who cares.


Explain why those would be the only options, when the sites are trivially tankable by cheap ships with entirely mundane fits? Those are not only not the only options, neither are even remotely good options.

Across the dozens of sites I did while they had them in the testing system on SiSi, I lost exactly one ship - an ishtar with a thermal/kinetic active tank (explosive hole you could drive a truck through).

Furthermore, we know how much damage they output, and we can clearly see, with a little basic math, whether or not it is survivable. If you can't do math, EFT can do it for you.

Why, it's almost like you're completely full of ****. Roll

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#306 - 2013-11-18 22:30:11 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Yup thats the surrender monkey we know.



So are you asserting that your post was something other than fictional whining by an infantile malcontent?

Shocked

Well yes, yes I do.
That is after all why I wrote it.
You are really not helping either yourself or the player base.
If you take an opposing position purely to be controversial or for attention, then you are responsible for the results.

CCP seem to believe that players love the luck element and twitch clicking.
Many players disagree, but for every "Poster " who claims the opposite purely to garner attention, It encourages them to reinforce their own opinions.
So:-
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.


Okay, let's break your nonsense down into bitesized pieces that you'll hopefully be able to handle.

You said:

Quote:
After a while 2 options will become apparent, expensive ships with a big tank or cheapest fit exploration frigate, lose a few who cares.


Explain why those would be the only options, when the sites are trivially tankable by cheap ships with entirely mundane fits? Those are not only not the only options, neither are even remotely good options.

Across the dozens of sites I did while they had them in the testing system on SiSi, I lost exactly one ship - an ishtar with a thermal/kinetic active tank (explosive hole you could drive a truck through).

Furthermore, we know how much damage they output, and we can clearly see, with a little basic math, whether or not it is survivable. If you can't do math, EFT can do it for you.

Why, it's almost like you're completely full of ****. Roll


Very constructive,Shocked

The post referred to the luck base of the implementation.
You take a clip out of context and then rage.
Standard operating procedure.
It doesn't suddenly invalidate the post,

How does this help the discussion other than drawing attention to yourself? Other people are capable of reading so draw their own conclusions of your behaviour, and it is not flattering.
I will not reply to you further in this thread as it simply disrupts the thread which is clearly your intention.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Angus McRothimay
Fenrir Vangard
#307 - 2013-11-18 22:33:21 UTC
Are the ascendency implants the only perquisite Ghost Sites supply for the new jump gates ? or will there also be Components and Blueprint drops for gate construction parts....

Can't wait to see what's in all that uncharted space
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#308 - 2013-11-18 23:05:34 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


The post referred to the luck base of the implementation.
You take a clip out of context and then rage.
Standard operating procedure.
It doesn't suddenly invalidate the post,




Out of context? Please, feel free to frame that statement in a context wherein your asserted "options" actually make sense.

Since you can tank them in a mundanely fit, inexpensive ship, why would you bring an expensive or exotic fit? I mean, you could if you want, but it's certainly not necessary in any regard. You can put together a T1 frigate with a T2 tank that can handle at *least* the high sec and low sec sites just fine... so why wouldn't you do that?

Since you can tank them in a mundanely fit, inexpensive ship, why would you ever bring a disposable ship, and risk losing the loot if the site pops, when you could instead bring an inexpensive fit, eat the explosion, and get away with whatever loot you've taken?

There isn't any context that makes that statement sensible.

Tone-trolling seems to be the only move you know - I'm assuming that's why, so far, you've completely avoided actually responding to any of the asserted facts.

Quote:
How does this help the discussion other than drawing attention to yourself?


How does your lying about the mechanics of the sites help the discussion?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#309 - 2013-11-19 15:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Every system generated is technically completable just not necessarily with the hackers current skill and fit. If you go out into Null with low skills chances are you'll never complete a can. Likewise people who have maxed out their skills and fit but have only played in High tend to think the system is incredibly easy. You will, even when currently maxed out, come across system configurations that will kick your ass. Part of the problem with how that feels is that there isn't a lot you can do about it when it does happen, unless you also got lucky with the Utilities that are in the system and there isn't much variety in what you come across. As I said in the quoted post you are always going to end up in unwinnable situations but we'd like that to be more about the players choices than the system configuration. About the only strategy available for Restoration Nodes is to kill them as soon as you unearth them.


Wow. First you say they are all technically winnable. Then you go on to directly and totally contradict yourself. Remove the first sentence in your statement and I would not have even bothered to post.

No, they are not all "technically" completable. The vast majority of them are, and I have enjoyed great success at the new exploration minigame. I"m glad to see the resultant drop in T2 rig prices. Small and medium T2 rigs are now actually affordable.

With max skills in a bonused and rigged (2x T1 rigs or 1x T2 rig) ship (T3s and covert Ops) using T2 modules you get a virus strength of 40 and starting coherence of 130. As you pointed out above and as I pointed out when I tested these sites on SiSi many months ago, restoration nodes are borderline OP and must be immediately destroyed no matter what or you risk failing the map.

Because the maximum virus strength is 40, it takes at least 3 hits to pop a restoration node because it will always heal itself at least once. Furthermore, high-level sites like in nulsec have boosted nodes, making them more difficult to clear. The first two attacks will result in return damage to your virus coherence. This means your virus coherence will take at least a 20 point hit with every restoration node.

I have gotten nulsec hacking games with several restoration nodes. Maps like that are in no way completable because of the wide area of effect from defenses coupled with the absolute necessity of losing coherence whilst popping those restoration nodes.

Now add in the timer on these new Ghost Sites. Even with max skills it takes time to clear those maps. You can't just blast through clicking nodes like mad or you will screw yourself. The timers on the high end Ghost Sites are so short that it is very difficult to clear a single high-level can before the rats show up and detonate the site.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for greater risk for greater rewards. But the short timers coupled with guaranteed damage mean there will soon be a waterfall of forum tears from those new to exploration, or those expecting another easy exploration game. My advice is to not bring something cheap. Bring the bling, along with max skills. These sites aren't for noobs.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#310 - 2013-11-19 16:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Quote:
Wow. First you say they are all technically winnable. Then you go on to directly and totally contradict yourself.


No, actually, he didn't contradict himself at all.

When you open a new board, it is technically possible to complete it: There is a route from where you start to the core node that would allow a max skill/bonused hacker to complete the board with 100% certainty.

However, since that route is obscured, it's entirely possible that, while playing the board, you will eventually render it unwinnable, because you're obviously not taking the mathematically optimal route unless you get very lucky.

I would still say I win about 80% of the boards.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#311 - 2013-11-19 16:47:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Quote:
Wow. First you say they are all technically winnable. Then you go on to directly and totally contradict yourself.


No, actually, he didn't contradict himself at all.

When you open a new board, it is technically possible to complete it: There is a route from where you start to the core node that would allow a max skill/bonused hacker to complete the board with 100% certainty.

However, since that route is obscured, it's entirely possible that, while playing the board, you will eventually render it unwinnable, because you're obviously not taking the mathematically optimal route unless you get very lucky.

I would still say I win about 80% of the boards.


What you say makes sense. And while I would like to believe you, as I said, I have had maps in nulsec with literally half a dozen restoration nodes and no tools. It is not possible to get through that even if you hit each of the nodes as soon as they appear. You simply don't have enough coherence to do it. 20 x 6 = 120. That does not leave enough coherence to pop the System Core.

On the other hand, I've had maps with very few nodes at all, and often no restoration nodes.

This all goes back to normalizing the spawn rate of certain nodes and the Ghost Site rat timer. They need to be a little bit more predictable. Not a lot. Just a little. I'd like to see the node spawns and timers give less way-out-there results.

ninja edit:
Quote:
Ghost Sites feature invisible timers. If the timer expires while you are still in the Ghost Site, the remaining hacking containers will detonate, causing area-of-effect Explosive damage. Waves of NPCs will spawn shortly after


Wait, wait, wait... the rats will spawn after the site detonates? On sisi they always spawned right before the detonation. Doing it in this order means frigates can completely forget about running these sites.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#312 - 2013-11-19 17:12:59 UTC
Soldarius wrote:


Wait, wait, wait... the rats will spawn after the site detonates? On sisi they always spawned right before the detonation. Doing it in this order means frigates can completely forget about running these sites.



Nah, as far as I've seen, you have the right of it. I have some more detailed posts in other threads, but the basic pattern I've seen has been:

-Rats spawn, tackle, maybe get a couple shots in.
-About 5 seconds later, the site pops.
-Rats hang out and shoot you for another 15 seconds, then warp away.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#313 - 2013-11-25 07:53:13 UTC
I just saw one of these new sites in my c4 wh system, a superior guristas site. After checking the thread about ghost sites in the test server forums, I was under the impression that I will have a random timer until rats appear and it will be anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes.

So I boarded a Helios and warped in. I approached the first can and started hacking it. And then, after only 120 seconds, rats appeared and instantly killed my ship in one shot, and all cans exploded. That seems a bit extreme. There is no way to get anything in that short time.

(I was definitely the first to warp to the site as it had just spawned and there is no open wormhole in the system.)

.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#314 - 2013-11-25 08:08:01 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
I just saw one of these new sites in my c4 wh system, a superior guristas site. After checking the thread about ghost sites in the test server forums, I was under the impression that I will have a random timer until rats appear and it will be anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes.

So I boarded a Helios and warped in. I approached the first can and started hacking it. And then, after only 120 seconds, rats appeared and instantly killed my ship in one shot, and all cans exploded. That seems a bit extreme. There is no way to get anything in that short time.

(I was definitely the first to warp to the site as it had just spawned and there is no open wormhole in the system.)


You couldn't have read that thread very carefully, because I'm pretty sure plenty of posts in there strongly advised bringing a tanked ship and leaving the covops at home.

That said, the actual timers seem to vary between 2 and 4 minutes, and this is, in fact, enough time to get loot, which is conclusively demonstrated by the existence of said loot on the market.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#315 - 2013-11-25 09:19:42 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
You couldn't have read that thread very carefully, because I'm pretty sure plenty of posts in there strongly advised bringing a tanked ship and leaving the covops at home.

Not the posts by CCP Affinity. Of course I didn't read the hundreds of player posts because they are mostly ranting and whining. Nobody has got time to sift that **** for the few useful posts.

Anyway, even if I had tanked the spawn, the cans would still have blown up. There was definitely no chance to get more than one because the time was insufficient to even move to a second can.

CCP Affinity wrote:
The sites will be timed, the first player to enter sets off the trigger and the site timer trigger will be random. Sometimes you will have 5 minutes in the site... sometimes 20 and lots of variations in between.

Obviously this was WIP and they balanced it differently, but going from 5-20 to 2-4 is quite extreme Blink

.
Sen Starfire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#316 - 2013-12-18 23:25:18 UTC
Greetings, everyone! I hope I have not missed a discussion concerning this earlier, though I was wondering about the pirates that show up to protect the Ghost site. I am quite on the suspicious side of them, and was wondering if it was worth pursuing to destroy them, and rummage through their wreckage for valuable items, concerning the mystery behind Ghost Sites.

On another related note, do Blue Boxes exist in game? Or were they just a lore inclusion? If the former, I will most assuredly continue my search for them. Fly safe!
Rawthorm
The Establishment
#317 - 2013-12-26 16:39:44 UTC
Sen Starfire wrote:
Greetings, everyone! I hope I have not missed a discussion concerning this earlier, though I was wondering about the pirates that show up to protect the Ghost site. I am quite on the suspicious side of them, and was wondering if it was worth pursuing to destroy them, and rummage through their wreckage for valuable items, concerning the mystery behind Ghost Sites.

On another related note, do Blue Boxes exist in game? Or were they just a lore inclusion? If the former, I will most assuredly continue my search for them. Fly safe!


They exist. A few people have them from the pre-patch event, but to this day there is no indication if they will ever be used for anything, or are just a collectors item.
Sen Starfire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2014-01-02 18:05:02 UTC
Rawthorm wrote:
Sen Starfire wrote:
Greetings, everyone! I hope I have not missed a discussion concerning this earlier, though I was wondering about the pirates that show up to protect the Ghost site. I am quite on the suspicious side of them, and was wondering if it was worth pursuing to destroy them, and rummage through their wreckage for valuable items, concerning the mystery behind Ghost Sites.

On another related note, do Blue Boxes exist in game? Or were they just a lore inclusion? If the former, I will most assuredly continue my search for them. Fly safe!


They exist. A few people have them from the pre-patch event, but to this day there is no indication if they will ever be used for anything, or are just a collectors item.



Thank you very much! I will continue to treat them with suspicion, though I will put that on the backburner for a while. However, some of us taking part in E-UNI's Project Ascendancy have a theory on the pirate ships that show up in the Ghost Sites. It is a slim hope at best, though we think that if we destroy all the pirates that warp in initially, more might show up, with more clues. We destroyed a couple, though we were unable to destroy the whole "wave". We will, however, be creating a larger fleet to do so, and possibly trigger a second wave, if those exist. The theory is given life by the initial trailer for Rubicon, where Battleships show up after some of the smaller frigates are destroyed, and the fact that additional waves are often triggered in missions upon the destruction of a particular ship. I know it is a slim chance, though I most assuredly love the cutting edge of lore and exploration that these Ghost Sites have given.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#319 - 2014-01-04 09:00:48 UTC
For the third time in a row tonight I've had the SHORTEST timers I have EVER had. I've run a lot of these sites and always had time to hack at least two cans, often three and sometimes even all four. I'm doing nothing different and suddenly the last three sites were time enough for only one can.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#320 - 2014-01-04 09:52:58 UTC
Also, my big gripe about the sites is this:
if I've hacked into a can, it shouldn't self destruct. It should wait there for me to loot it. There's nothing more frustrating than successfully hacking a can and in the few seconds it takes me to open and loot it, it blows up and I lose everything.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)